Well, how about a specific question:
What would you consider to be the 90th% of mob density? In other words, how dense are mobs in high mob scenarios in the upper ideal range? Right now, I'm approximating 1 mob per 16 'yards' squared. So in each 4x4 block, you should encounter on average 1 mob in clump fights. Does this seem about right, or completely off? Does anyone have any good baseline experience with a skill of known radius hitting how many mobs in dense fights?
No one has this information. Additionally you also need to know base castspeeds.. Which no one knows.. Electrocute is a lot faster for example.
I also have a feeling they were not very consistent in tooltipcs when something is dealing 40% over 8 seconds and they actually mean 40% per second for 8 seconds... On top of that you don't know attack rates for things like hydra, damage for archon abilities, and how some abilities (for example dots) change with increased attack speed.
Oh and don't forget the abilities that have a "chance" to proc on hit but they don't tell you the percentage...
Oh and abilities that have hidden internal cooldowns or say on damage but really mean only once per spell on damage.
I doubt anyone has all information, but that doesn't stop me from creating a best effort model using what information is available. While I agree the tooltips lack a lot of information, I disagree with the statement that no one has more information.
For example, beta testers would have the information on all abilities unlocked in the beta, leading to such insights as:
Certain spells are linked to player casting speed (all Primary skills, with slight hidden constant differences), and some are limited to an ICD (Arcane Orb).
Also, I know that all spell variables are client side, and some people were creating emulator servers to test out what was available in beta client data. So these people would have even more information.
And then the third group: those with information from the strategy guide.
I've been working on a fairly comprehensive Wizard spread sheet, but I am hitting a few unknowns that I keep needing to best guess at. Specifically, not all abilities list number of projectiles, area of effect, or they lack specified duration of effects, have ambiguous text that could have multiple meanings, or are just plain missing (Energy Twister: Storm Chaser).
I know there have been some significant leaks with the play guide and what not, so does anyone have a better source for abilities then the Blizzard skill calculator?
I've been working on a fairly comprehensive Wizard spread sheet, but I am hitting a few unknowns that I keep needing to best guess at. Specifically, not all abilities list number of projectiles, area of effect, lack of specified duration of effects, have ambiguous text that could have multiple meanings, or are just plain missing (Energy Twister: Storm Chaser).
I know there have been some significant leaks with the play guide and what not, so does anyone have a better source for abilities then the Blizzard skill calculator?
But help me understand how if mobs don't scale instantly how that doesn't translate to fantastic leveling possibilities in areas where you have mass mobs.
Assuming that, you 'rotate' people through the fight, quickly joining the game in interest, porting to the mob, and going full out while the first person leaves the game, and the 3rd gets ready to join. In this manner, each person that rotates through has fresh resources, and CDs, while the mob has the scaling of only 1-2 people at a time.
To me this seems like too much trouble to go to. Besides the fact that you have to interrupt others from their leveling/grinding progress.
Simply saying its too much hassle to be an effective exploit
I agree, Blizzard has done a good job limiting the potential for exploits.
They scale instantly, keeping the same % HP as before the player # change. Boss fights can not have additional people join mid fight, but elite mobs could.
A contrived way to exploit this would first assume that:
-a single player has trouble vs. the mob
-the fight would take a relatively long period of time
-that the time cost of keeping people on the bench is worth the additional HP pools and resources
Assuming that, you 'rotate' people through the fight, quickly joining the game in interest, porting to the mob, and going full out while the first person leaves the game, and the 3rd gets ready to join. In this manner, each person that rotates through has fresh resources, and CDs, while the mob has the scaling of only 1-2 people at a time.
Magic find will give you greater possibilities for better loot, gold find will give you more gold. GF is a very efficient stat and as such, will most likely be better then MF for pure $ reasons until a while after the release. Once the gold market is flooded enough, MF will be more valuable, since inflation will hit gold harder then items.
Then min/maxers would be more compelled to swap abilities on the fly to get access to more abilities. Even at 30 seconds, there are some ability cool downs that are longer, encouraging swapping it out while you wait. I would honestly hope they up it to 45-60 seconds for the CD, and make it so long CD abilities don't recharge while swapped out.
Ah a very good source for various attack speeds: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455189
Dual-weilding speed bonus is 15%, and CW gets an additional 16% speed bonus over character sheet. This equals 2.001 APS for CW.
Ok, so a few rough numbers from the beta. As many people know, different weapons have different attack speed. Dual-wielding weapons make for even faster attack rates (slightly below the average of the two). The calculation for dual-wielding weapon speed is probably floating around the forum somewhere.
To get to my point, using two fast (1.5 APS) weapons, I get about 2 APS total. This is with little to no attack speed buffs, so a base line of 2 APS is fine. This means, from spirit generating attacks alone, you get at a minimum 12 spirit/second. In 15 seconds, that means 180 spirit generated. That means you have enough spirit for MoE + Blind (135 per 15) with 45 left over.
So at low gear levels, you have enough spirit for the core abilities, but wont be able to spam heals or CS. As your gear increases, you should be able to spam more heals and CS. I also modified my build to be a little more friendly, adding in passive heals and easier SW stacks. http://eu.battle.net...XhWZ!UaY!ccaacb
Thanks for the response, and let me clarify a few of your rebuttals.
a.)MoE bonus is short (3 seconds) but only costs 25 spirit. A monks average spirit generation is close to 20 Spirit/second on beta atm. BF is not exactly short (7.5 seconds every 15) and is also dirt cheap (10 spirit). CW are 'large sweeping strikes' with the 3rd attacking being an even larger AOE, guessing about 8 yards. You get a 3rd strike about once every 1.5 seconds. Why does OWE only work for 3? there are 5 elements.
b.) As mentioned previously, you generate about 300 spirit per 15 seconds. In that time you will use 125 for MoE, 10 for BF with 165 left over for heals or cyclone strike. CS is not the only damage source, Sweeping wind should be a large part in fact (along with heal dot, CW) and of course the other people in your group, who no longer have to worry about survival stats.
c.) You will do less damage then a pure damage build, but this build if a quasi tank build, allowing your teammates to focus more on killing. The xp combo system is trivial amounts of XP. With this build, you WANT to be surrounded, so that you can debuff and AOE even MORE mobs. You're not going to die with 93-97% damage reduction, heals, and teammates.
tl:dr.) Stacking survive and the AOE grab allows you to play a tank role, freeing up teammates to focus on AOE and damage. Removing the risk of death does trivialize the hardest content, since you can continuously push through it. Adding more survive from defense does not reduce the effectiveness of this build, since it is all relative. Moving from 96% reduction to 98% reduction is HUGE btw (50% less damage) for example. And I don't think is boring to AOE pull, hit, slow, cc, debuff all the mobs on your screen and live.
Thanks for your answer. Don't wanna go into too much detail, just some minor points:
- OwE most likely only affects Fire, Ice and Lightning. The other damage types are not considered "elements".
- The way I read the Indigo BF description, the whole duration is only 5.5 seconds with a total of 2 flashes, one instant flash and another one after 3 seconds.
- I don't own the beta. How do you get 20 spirit/second? Just from a theory standpoint, you attack with like 1.5 aps which equals about 9 spirit/second (and you still need to attack). As said in many other threads though, we don't know much about spirit regeneration from gear so far.
Guess well just have to wait and see on OwE, but all 5 are listed as elements, so I would assume all 5.
The blind would only be 5.5 per 15, just a refresh 2 seconds early on the first flash.
I get a 3rd* strike roughly every 1.5 seconds, meaning 2 aps. Also, items can and skills can add spirit generation. Ill try to get some more real numbers from beta later.
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Where can one go on the eve of D3's release to actually discuss Theorycrafting and Analysis?
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What would you consider to be the 90th% of mob density? In other words, how dense are mobs in high mob scenarios in the upper ideal range? Right now, I'm approximating 1 mob per 16 'yards' squared. So in each 4x4 block, you should encounter on average 1 mob in clump fights. Does this seem about right, or completely off? Does anyone have any good baseline experience with a skill of known radius hitting how many mobs in dense fights?
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For example, beta testers would have the information on all abilities unlocked in the beta, leading to such insights as:
Certain spells are linked to player casting speed (all Primary skills, with slight hidden constant differences), and some are limited to an ICD (Arcane Orb).
Also, I know that all spell variables are client side, and some people were creating emulator servers to test out what was available in beta client data. So these people would have even more information.
And then the third group: those with information from the strategy guide.
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I know there have been some significant leaks with the play guide and what not, so does anyone have a better source for abilities then the Blizzard skill calculator?
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I know there have been some significant leaks with the play guide and what not, so does anyone have a better source for abilities then the Blizzard skill calculator?
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A contrived way to exploit this would first assume that:
-a single player has trouble vs. the mob
-the fight would take a relatively long period of time
-that the time cost of keeping people on the bench is worth the additional HP pools and resources
Assuming that, you 'rotate' people through the fight, quickly joining the game in interest, porting to the mob, and going full out while the first person leaves the game, and the 3rd gets ready to join. In this manner, each person that rotates through has fresh resources, and CDs, while the mob has the scaling of only 1-2 people at a time.
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Not sure even where to start...
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Dual-weilding speed bonus is 15%, and CW gets an additional 16% speed bonus over character sheet. This equals 2.001 APS for CW.
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To get to my point, using two fast (1.5 APS) weapons, I get about 2 APS total. This is with little to no attack speed buffs, so a base line of 2 APS is fine. This means, from spirit generating attacks alone, you get at a minimum 12 spirit/second. In 15 seconds, that means 180 spirit generated. That means you have enough spirit for MoE + Blind (135 per 15) with 45 left over.
So at low gear levels, you have enough spirit for the core abilities, but wont be able to spam heals or CS. As your gear increases, you should be able to spam more heals and CS. I also modified my build to be a little more friendly, adding in passive heals and easier SW stacks. http://eu.battle.net...XhWZ!UaY!ccaacb
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The blind would only be 5.5 per 15, just a refresh 2 seconds early on the first flash.
I get a 3rd* strike roughly every 1.5 seconds, meaning 2 aps. Also, items can and skills can add spirit generation. Ill try to get some more real numbers from beta later.