Added a solo lightning wizard build, which I think should still focus on critical hits. A non precision-based build would probably have Crimson Electrocute and Crimson Frost Nova, but wanted your take on the first one for now! Can build the second later this weekend, along with any requests to add to this thread. We should definitely have a place to go to for those of us love the idea of focusing on one element. (I do want to keep Frost Nova in my builds, though... unless you make me put it away... )
Or Alabaster Blizzard. Plenty of ways to ensure ideal Meteor damage. Play enough D2 sorc and dropping meteors and hitting moving targets isn't hard.
Now you are going to have to sacrifice another skill slot, aka another damage buff, for meteor to hit. All of these moves taken make what seems to be an OP build unparalleled in dps more and more comparable to easy to land and repeat lower-damage spells.
it's simple.... we use the slow time + frost nova...
Frost Nova lasts 4 seconds with a reduced 9.6 second cooldown, Slow Time lasts 10 with a reduced 24 second cooldown. If you are going to be using both buffs at the same time for max damage output, 35% slow will not protect you very long from taking hits. If you are rotating those abilities for better kiting, you start to lose damage output to survive.
Like I said, if you are in a group with someone else taking hits, meteor is going to be wonderful. As I have yet to meet anyone who can farm in a game in as long sessions as I can, I for one will not always have that availability of constant meat wall.
Also, repeating above post, this is list of pros/cons for a choice everyone can make for themselves in the game.
I can understand if people are opposed to Indigo Meteor because of its major drawbacks:
1) Close range to cast (the two videos I have seen of Meteor show it to cast right in front of you)
2) Low chance (from the video I saw) that Indigo Meteor will ever hit the same target, unless it is one of the largest model enemies that are standing still
3) Delay of the spell, so to hit with it you are probably going to get hit, unless it is the first cast right after a Frost Nova.
This all leads me to still like other long range spells, regardless of channel or not. If a Barbarian or other melee class is holding aggro, thats great, but if you are aggro'd... I'd rather start firing from further away. Just my thought on the meteor-hate debate
Hey guys! We have an extra buff to our damage through Magic Weapon! I believe this should be taken into consideration, as you will only need to cast it every 60 seconds instead of Frost Nova every 12, etc. Will this become one of our best DPS increasing buffs? It is obviously second to Crimson Familiar, but when fighting solo can it beat out Crimson Slow Time and Crimson Frost Nova? Does it help our burst to the extent that it beats out Indigo Energy Shield? These are questions I pose to all!
Rules:
1). Since we don't know much about Crimson Mirror Image don't include it for now. Armor Spells, Magic Weapon, and Familiar are in effect before your 7 seconds start, but nothing else.
2). All the assumptions from the above section are true minus spell limitations.
3). Since we don't know how Blizzard is going to apply % damage increases combine your percentages into one and apply that. (Familiar + Slow Time = 40% + 140% = 180%). As long as everyone follows the same method the numbers will be fair even if that's not how Blizz ends up doing it.
4). Need a link to the full build. Credit will of course be given to whoever posts the build.
5). Don't forget about AP!!!!
EDIT1: Changed Blizzard, Hydra, Crimson Meteor, and Energy Twister to more accurately reflect their damage.
EDIT2: Added the Full Build section!
You asked for a build based on this, and all of these skills do add damage to the combination (save for the shield, but that adds extra cast). Mentioned above are Armor spells, Magic Weapon, Familiar, Slow Time, Frost Nova, Meteor, MM. I did not bring this up to say HAHA U MESSED UP U WRONG, I only brought it up to say that we have to make a choice based on Magic Weapon in our builds now, since Weapon Damage boosts spell damage
The build you requested for your last simulation on the first post is impossible!
Passives work out, but actives do not:
Passive 1: Glass Cannon
Passive 2: Astral Presence
Passive 3: Conflagration
Active 1: Obsidian Magic Weapon
Active 2: Indigo Energy Armor (not sure if you prefer Golden Storm Armor)
Active 3: Crimson Familiar
Active 4: Crimson Slow Time
Active 5: Crimson Frost Nova
Active 6: Indigo Meteor ACTIVE 7: MAGIC MISSLE
Full Tal Rasha's Wrappings gave 163-168% MF... and that is only from equipping 5 pieces of armor. Even if you did not have any more mf gear, it was not hard to get another 20%+ from charms... 80% is less than TR's chest piece gives alone
You've got to me... rotating signature spells is quite a waste of a slot, so I agree with you that I will end up using Indigo Hydras, which means I will now use Crimson Familiar and Prodigy as my 3rd passive. Will update the original post shortly.
1. It seems like poison damage, for instance, will carry over to SB. Tho not as poison damage, but included into the hit damage of SB.
If elemental damage carries over, but not on hit effect such as life steal or % chance to cast a spell (as there was in D2), it seems the strongest runestone for Magic Weapon will be Crimson for max damage or Alabaster if it will heal. Spectral Blade could also be runed Alabaster for healing or Indigo for max damage and better area of effect. Is this the direction the build is going towards?
Uhhhh... ok sure, so I basically took the damage from all Meteors and multiplied by 3 (Scenario D) = 165886.4 dmg
Logic tells you it's crazy awesome dmg, however unrealistic, cos you can also do the same with Disintegrate, have 3 mobs stand close in a row, AT dmg might affect all 3 and Disintegrate will hit all 3 cos of pierce.
True, nevermind, single target damage is the only realistic way to calculate a supposed "best" rotation.
Arcane Dynamo is a lot more work to predict in a spreadsheet, cos you can only gain 1 charge ever 1.5 secs. But doable, I'll look at it tonight. Not sure what you mean about Prodigy. Scenario A doesn't need it cos there is 0AP used. and in B & C, it is the main AP regen skill.
Making some really really unlikely scenarios using Electrocute which is why I didn't include them originally.
Scenario #D
Astral Presence +20 AP and +2/sec regeneration
Glass Cannon +20% damage -10% armor & resistances
Familiar-Crimson +40% damage
Electrocute - Golden (HUGE ASSUMPTION of hitting 3 targets for +21AP every cast) - 90 dmg (again assuming 30dmg per target - very very unlikely)
Meteor - Crimson - 633.5 dmg/sec (Ignore burning beyond 1st sec)
Energy Armor - +40 AP
Duration: 120 sec
Method: Meteor till AP gone, then MM till Full AP, repeat = 62499.2 Damage
Scenario E is very funky. In order not to get the same results as scenario D, I had to do 3 Meteor + 4 Ele + 3 Meteor + 3 Ele .... (so AP regen on the 3 Ele's were not quite to max.)
Scenario #E
Astral Presence +20 AP and +2/sec regeneration
Glass Cannon +20% damage -10% armor & resistances
Familiar-Crimson +40% damage
Electrocute - Golden (HUGE ASSUMPTION of hitting 3 targets for +21AP every cast) - 90 dmg (again assuming 30dmg per target - very very unlikely)
Meteor - Crimson - 633.5 dmg/sec (Ignore burning beyond 1st sec)
Energy Armor - +40 AP
Prodigy - +5AP
Duration: 120 sec
Method: Meteor till AP gone, then MM till Full AP, repeat = 66847.2 Damage
Sorry to nitpick, but I think that we should compare not only Electrocute hitting 3 targets, but also Meteor hitting all three. This damage output could be compared to the rotation of AT and AT buffed Disintegrate hitting 3 targets. The outcome of such a comparison could show which AoE spell (at least right now) reigns surpreme, given that neither are particularly awesome at always hitting three mobs, especially if they are anywhere near as fast as the pygmies from d2 act3... Just some suggestions to keep the ball rolling!
D2 had immunities in Hell mode, multiple immunities for special mobs... I can only imagine the hoops we will jump through in Inferno to deal any damage at all to those monsters
As of now, the only way to deal lightning damage is to use the signature spells, so already it is apparent that this build will focus solely on utility and not max damage per second. That being said, constantly stunning monsters for your group will be greatly beneficial and definitely viable in any part of the game pursued with a group.
This is not accurate. Indigo Hydra is Lightning Hydra. This is, I think, the best damage source you can include, and certainly the best AP dump.
2) Wave of Force - Alabaster: Impactful Wave
While not lightning per say, this is an AoE instant cast spell that gives 5 seconds of stun. Since our main spells will not use any AP, there is no downside to taking this spell to use when enemies get too close.
3) Electrocute - Indigo: Chain Lightning
Here we go! Chain this spell to crit up to 10 targets. This is the spam spell in the build, giving you the ability to potentially CC 10 targets while your team hacks and zaps away!
4) Shock Pulse - Indigo: Lightning Orb
To increase the frequency in which your enemies are zapped, toss out an occasional orb that will throw zaps at the same time as your own Electrocute spam. Obsidian Shock Pulse may prove to be the better choice, depending on the range Lightning Orb has to target enemies.
5) Slow Time - Crimson: Time Warp
Our stun spells have all been taken, so this slot will go to further increasing your utility. As a supporting wizard, the first choice is clear in selecting Slow Time, increasing the bashing your allies will let loose on monsters. Alabaster Slow Time could be taken as well, but you should really have no problem with enemies ever getting out the area Crimson affects.
If you are going for Wave of Force purely for utility, on the basis that this will be a utility character, I can't really argue with that. However, I think the overall usefulness of the character will be little-diminished by losing the guaranteed AoE stun in favor of substantial damage boosts (Hydra, Familiar), and that you will still be able to dish out more than enough stun.
Indigo vs Alabaster Electrocute is going to be somewhat of an open question. I think Alabaster, w/ decent crit chance is going to provide a much higher damage potential, since you can be getting 5, 10, or 15 charged bolts with substantially higher damage than your iteratively x0.7-ed chain lightning effect; I think this also has higher potential for amount of stuns/time to a group of creatures. Against one target, it should perform identically.
Shock Pulse (Indigo or Obsidian) I think this will serve little purpose that is not already covered by Electrocute, so I would not take up a skill slot for it. It might make sense to use it instead, but I don't think having both will be worthwhile.
If you want a build centered on spamming a free spell, you will be better off w/ Alabaster Slow Time than Crimson; w/ Crimson, you have to get creatures into the field, w/ Alabaster, you will have the full dps increase immediately upon casting, and with a stun-on-hit build, this will mean more stuns; since the spam spell is free, there is no AP-efficiency loss relative to the increased damage on Crimson. Furthermore, I would swap Arcane Dynamo for Prodigy. With your original build, Arcane Dynamo would only be set off by Wave of Force or Frost Nova, neither of which is particularly high damage, and thus not worth the buff imo (although your build would also not benefit really from Prodigy.) With Hydra as an AP dump, Prodigy will be more useful than Arcane Dynamo since 8 Electrocutes will yield 40 AP (or 2/3rds of a Hydra) rather than 1/2 of another Hydra, even discounting the cycle time limitation on Arcane Dynamo.
I have considered a lot of this, and I have the following thoughts:
1) Will my Alabaster Hydra receive the 40% damage buff from Crimson Familiar? If so, that's good, but does the Hydra inherit my critical hit chance, as well as the ability to stun monsters if it does crit? If the answer to any of these questions are no, that is only one way to kill this idea.
2) Even if the answer to all 1) questions is yes, why am I spending two active skill slots and a passive skill slot to increase the damage output of a spec that will not truly benefit from it? 40% buff ontop of meteor, RoF, AT buffed Disintegrate, etc, is definitely worth the Familiar buff. Hydras last only 9 seconds and attack randomly with much lower damage output than any of the aforementioned spells. This being said, it makes more sense to fully commit to helping your team than trying to be superman, disabling, buffing and killing all enemies in one less-specialized build.
3) I do like the switch of using Alabaster slow time better than Crimson. I first thought about how it would affect my allies, but increasing the speed of Electrocute spam is definitely the way to go.
4) I also like your idea about using Alabaster Electrocute, it increases the RNG associated with the build, but high crit values would make that ability shine, especially if those bolts crit as well! Your math also shows this to be the better choice
This leaves the use of Alabaster WoF and Indigo Shock Pulse up for discussion.
5)If the Lightning Hydras could crit as often as the Shock Pulse orb could with the frequency of attacks, I would use it, but I doubt this is the case. Lower damage but higher rate of stuns is why I will stick with Obsidian Shock Pulse, since I believe it will hit more targets than Indigo.
6)One spot is left open, where I have Alabaster WoF. I really can not say I have any preference over whether this slot is spent on WoF, Indigo Hydra or Crimson Mirror Image, and will leave it up to personal preference / game experience with each, but I do think it should be one of these three. Indigo Hydra wins if you need an AP dump, but it is not a necessity playing this role in your group imo.
7) The 3rd passive skill slot where I had Arcane Dynamo is preference, since none are amazing, but should be Galvanizing Ward or Prodigy for more Hydra casts.
**Updated the original post with the mentioned changes!**
Thanks for the added data! A few requests from one without an excel sheet:
1)Indigo Energy Armor used during the Metoer > MM build, but maybe we could start doing the math for 3 targets hit? That way we could use Golden Electrocute for near instant regen instead of MM. It seems obvious that RoF is the best single target spell, as long as it either a)benefits from +casting speed, or b)you don't use +casting speed gear. I think focusing on whether or not meteor > AT buffed Disintegrate for 3 targets hit is the next step in the discussion. This will again be compared with the 2 requirements I stated above for RoF kept in mind.
2)Could fellow min/max'ers be linked to a spreadsheet download? One standard spreadsheet would be quite helpful in the discussion, both to fact check and to increase output of data
Edit: Prodigy is the only thing not compared to your 3 scenarios, which DKR has shown to be a small dps increase. Arcane Dynamo also enters the discussion now, even if it takes a couple rotations to give the bonus, will it beat out Prodigy? (Given that Glass Cannon and Astral Presence are accepted as the two top DPS-increasing passive skills, when not using cooldown based rotations.
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Though if you really want to not have to worry about enemies ever moving, just invite my http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#QdRSZh!fYc!aaYaaZ wizard to your game =)
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Like I said, if you are in a group with someone else taking hits, meteor is going to be wonderful. As I have yet to meet anyone who can farm in a game in as long sessions as I can, I for one will not always have that availability of constant meat wall.
Also, repeating above post, this is list of pros/cons for a choice everyone can make for themselves in the game.
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1) Close range to cast (the two videos I have seen of Meteor show it to cast right in front of you)
2) Low chance (from the video I saw) that Indigo Meteor will ever hit the same target, unless it is one of the largest model enemies that are standing still
3) Delay of the spell, so to hit with it you are probably going to get hit, unless it is the first cast right after a Frost Nova.
This all leads me to still like other long range spells, regardless of channel or not. If a Barbarian or other melee class is holding aggro, thats great, but if you are aggro'd... I'd rather start firing from further away. Just my thought on the meteor-hate debate
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Hey guys! We have an extra buff to our damage through Magic Weapon! I believe this should be taken into consideration, as you will only need to cast it every 60 seconds instead of Frost Nova every 12, etc. Will this become one of our best DPS increasing buffs? It is obviously second to Crimson Familiar, but when fighting solo can it beat out Crimson Slow Time and Crimson Frost Nova? Does it help our burst to the extent that it beats out Indigo Energy Shield? These are questions I pose to all!
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Passives work out, but actives do not:
Passive 1: Glass Cannon
Passive 2: Astral Presence
Passive 3: Conflagration
Active 1: Obsidian Magic Weapon
Active 2: Indigo Energy Armor (not sure if you prefer Golden Storm Armor)
Active 3: Crimson Familiar
Active 4: Crimson Slow Time
Active 5: Crimson Frost Nova
Active 6: Indigo Meteor
ACTIVE 7: MAGIC MISSLE
ruh roh rooby roo...
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I have considered a lot of this, and I have the following thoughts:
1) Will my Alabaster Hydra receive the 40% damage buff from Crimson Familiar? If so, that's good, but does the Hydra inherit my critical hit chance, as well as the ability to stun monsters if it does crit? If the answer to any of these questions are no, that is only one way to kill this idea.
2) Even if the answer to all 1) questions is yes, why am I spending two active skill slots and a passive skill slot to increase the damage output of a spec that will not truly benefit from it? 40% buff ontop of meteor, RoF, AT buffed Disintegrate, etc, is definitely worth the Familiar buff. Hydras last only 9 seconds and attack randomly with much lower damage output than any of the aforementioned spells. This being said, it makes more sense to fully commit to helping your team than trying to be superman, disabling, buffing and killing all enemies in one less-specialized build.
3) I do like the switch of using Alabaster slow time better than Crimson. I first thought about how it would affect my allies, but increasing the speed of Electrocute spam is definitely the way to go.
4) I also like your idea about using Alabaster Electrocute, it increases the RNG associated with the build, but high crit values would make that ability shine, especially if those bolts crit as well! Your math also shows this to be the better choice
This leaves the use of Alabaster WoF and Indigo Shock Pulse up for discussion.
5)If the Lightning Hydras could crit as often as the Shock Pulse orb could with the frequency of attacks, I would use it, but I doubt this is the case. Lower damage but higher rate of stuns is why I will stick with Obsidian Shock Pulse, since I believe it will hit more targets than Indigo.
6)One spot is left open, where I have Alabaster WoF. I really can not say I have any preference over whether this slot is spent on WoF, Indigo Hydra or Crimson Mirror Image, and will leave it up to personal preference / game experience with each, but I do think it should be one of these three. Indigo Hydra wins if you need an AP dump, but it is not a necessity playing this role in your group imo.
7) The 3rd passive skill slot where I had Arcane Dynamo is preference, since none are amazing, but should be Galvanizing Ward or Prodigy for more Hydra casts.
**Updated the original post with the mentioned changes!**
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1)Indigo Energy Armor used during the Metoer > MM build, but maybe we could start doing the math for 3 targets hit? That way we could use Golden Electrocute for near instant regen instead of MM. It seems obvious that RoF is the best single target spell, as long as it either a)benefits from +casting speed, or b)you don't use +casting speed gear. I think focusing on whether or not meteor > AT buffed Disintegrate for 3 targets hit is the next step in the discussion. This will again be compared with the 2 requirements I stated above for RoF kept in mind.
2)Could fellow min/max'ers be linked to a spreadsheet download? One standard spreadsheet would be quite helpful in the discussion, both to fact check and to increase output of data
Edit: Prodigy is the only thing not compared to your 3 scenarios, which DKR has shown to be a small dps increase. Arcane Dynamo also enters the discussion now, even if it takes a couple rotations to give the bonus, will it beat out Prodigy? (Given that Glass Cannon and Astral Presence are accepted as the two top DPS-increasing passive skills, when not using cooldown based rotations.