A lot of misinformation here. First, no life leech is not capped in any way. Although you could say the cap is how much you can effectively stack, it only appears on weapons and on belts, plus our passive that gives us 3%, so in effect the most you can get is 12%. Either way, no matter how much you have on gear it is always on and working. As far as it's effectiveness, life leech does work in a different way than life on hit does.
For simplicity's sake, let's say you do 100k effective damage to a monster, 1% life leech would be as effective as 200 life on hit. Now, the problem is that life on hit has to go through proc coefficients, and this is where the math get's a little weird. Since life leech does not care how you do the damage nor does it care about proc coefficients, it is always "on" and does not suffer from the Run Like the Wind tornado nerf in 1.05.
So to really determine the effectiveness of life leech vs life on hit, you need to see how a typical whirlwind barbarian does damage. Your character screen damage per second number really isn't how much damage you can do per second, in reality it is much higher. What they should really call it is average weapon damage, but that is another argument. How does a whirler barb do damage? The two big sources are Sprint with Run Like the Wind rune, and of course Whirlwind. The tornado's dropped by Sprint do 20% weapon damage, and they hit multiple times per second depending on your swing speed. Whirlwind does 145% weapon damage per tick, and ticks at the same frequency as Sprint, but Sprint only hits with the main hand while Whirlwind alternates with both weapons. Check ticks per second for both skills here. So, in the end, what does this all mean? For that we need to create a scenario.
A Barbarian has the same exact weapon in both hands, and drops down 4 tornadoes around an enemy and whirlwinds through them twice. Attack speed is 1.75 for both weapons and character screen damage per second is 100,000. This barbarian has 1500 life on hit and 6% life leech. The effective whirlwind time on target is 1.5 seconds per whirlwind. We are attacking one target.
For both skills, the damage calculation is: (skill damage % * weapon damage) (attacks per second * seconds spent attacking) * targets hit.
Sprint = (.2 * 100,000) (4*5.67*3) 1 = 1,360,800 damage (note: 4 tornadoes were dropped, hence the 4.)
How many times did we attack during that time? We had 4*5.67*3 hits with Sprint at .20 proc coefficient, and 5.67*3 hits with whirlwind at .13 proc coefficient. Now that we know all that, we can do the life leech vs life on hit calculations.
Life leech = total damage done * (life leech amount * .2 inferno nerf) = 3,827,250 (.06 * .2) = 45927
Life on hit = (total attacks * proc coefficient) * life on hit
Sprint = (4*5.67*3*.2) * 1500 = 19,332 life
WW = (5.67*3*.13) * 1500 = 3,317 life
So 6% life leech got us 45927 life and our 1500 life on hit got us 22,649 life back. This works out to 15309 life per second on life leech and 6444 life per second with the life on hit.
Now, the 1.05 nerf is going to effect the Sprint Coefficient, so the new numbers here are:
(4*5.67*3*.08) * 1500 = 8165
This changes our life per second total on the life on hit to 3827 life per second. So the worth of 1% life leech compared to life on hit?
patch 1.04: 1% life leech = 2552 life per second, 1 life on hit = 15 life per second, which works out to 170 life on hit for 1% life leech.
patch 1.05: 1% life leech = 2552 life per second, 1 life on hit = 2.55 life per second, which works out to 1001 life on hit for 1% life leech.
EDIT: Holy crap I totally messed up that inferno buff nerf to life steal, and it is amazing compared to life on hit. At least at 100k dps. Now, if you do less damage than that, the life steal should scale directly to that. For example, if your barbarian has 1500 life on hit and 50k dps, then life steal is exactly half as valuable. Now that there is a baseline, you can do the math from there. Thank you guys for pointing it out,
tanis0 and GonturanDJ.
Disclaimer: Napkin math is napkin math, if I made an error go ahead and point it out.
tl;dr patch (@100k dps) 1.04 1% life leech = 170 life per hit, patch 1.05 1% life leech = 1001 life per hit
Its absolutely retarded that anyting lower then lvl 60 drops in inferno, i mean HELLO you have to be lvl 60 to even be in inferno. finding lvl 52 items is the dumbest thing ever. Loot system is absolutley broken.
And so it begins, let me explain, this is what makes this game run. It's why we like it when we do find a good item....
First inferno diablo kill got me a 52 and a 58 rare.
I cried. some champ packs are harder than diablo though to be fair.
And if you got a guaranteed upgrade, you would just kill bosses. Over, and over and over, until you had perfect items everywhere, and then you would do it some more. You would sell the new perfect items on the auction house, with everyone else, and sooner or later no one would buy anything because everyone has the best gear. Then everyone would stop playing, because they already have the best gear and they can't do anything with the drops that they keep getting, so why play?
Depends where you are in Inferno. Act 3 drops a lot of ilvl 60+ items. Only problem is that everything is junk.
Not EVERYTHING is junk. If 100% of the items were junk, then where are all the good items being sold for multiple millions of gold on the auction house, or for hundreds of dollars on the RMAH coming from?
i agree that the further in acts you go the better the gear, but im just saying that inferno dropping anything that is sub lvl 60 is dumb since you have to be 60 to get there.
and ya killing diablo on inferno was a disapointment got a 61 sheild and 53 bow
I already covered this, just pointing out how many times the same thing has been said.
The lower range is definitely far too low, but you can't have everything dropping in Inferno be good/ilvl 61-63. I have seen 52s myself, but I'd love if Inferno didn't drop anything lower than 57 or 58.
I don't think it really matters that much tbh, if you're killing anything in Inferno you want ilvl 63 drops, which have a fixed percentage. The rest is basically AH fodder (61-62) or garbage (60 and lower)
I actually said almost exactly this to a friend yesturday.
57 min in Act 1, 58 min in Act 2, 59 min in Act 3 and Act 4 gets 60+.
Just my thoughts anyways.
Terrible idea, see above. Flooding the market with really really good items is a bad idea.
im not saying to increase the ilvl 63 items all i was saying is that it makes no sense to spend several minutes and maybe even dying a few times to get a lvl 52 item in inferno, 58.59.60 could take the place of all the low ilvl gear, and they could keep there 61-63 tables the same, im just saying
>>>>>it makes as much sense for a lvl 63 mob to drop a lvl 52 item as it does for a lvl 52 mob to drop a lvl 63 item.<<<<<....
*** simplest soloution of all make it so that the item dropped is within 3 lvls of the mob*****
so if its a lvl 60 trash mob the lowest they could drop is a lvl 57
and if its a lvl 63 pack of champs the lowest is a lvl 60..
See, you guys are like a broken record. And it's always a bad song playing.
Ok since you don't get the point of my post because you are incompetent, let me reword it for you.
If blizzard were to change Act3/4 of inferno to 100% ilvl63 drops, you would still cry about it.
Why? I can already see your cry baby self saying
"Whaaa! Why do I not always get a drop from elites?!"
"Whaaa! Why doesn't my ilvl63 always roll godly?!"
"Whaaa! I can't sell my awesome ilvl63 items for billions like before cause it drops so often now!"
Layman's term? You can never please a cry baby - leave it the way it is.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
I think that there are many vocal players who wouldn't be happy if Blizzard mailed them gold-plated Ferraris. To that extent, I think there are some minor tweaks to loot that could be made.
1) Condense all follower special items into one, the class-specific follower relics are fucking TERRIBLE and I really hate it.
2) As you said, make class-specific items unable to have the "wrong" primary stat (no int/dex on barb gear), but while still not forcing str on barb gear.
3) Somehow address the "damage" issue on weapons. I wish I had SS'd it, but I just got a *really* good 63 wand, except it had like 350 damage. I don't think that having such a wide damage range on weapons is actually helpful at this point.
Beyond that, I'm not really sure much needs to be done to loot unless you want to delve into the world of "those who shall never be pleased."
I explained this in another post, but putting limits of any kind on item drops will inevitably lead to the best items being everywhere, and no point to playing the game.
We've been used to a design in Diablo 2 where MF simply improved your chances are getting gear in a better colour, affixes were not a concern. Yet now, we are presented with a system upon where after the game checks to see if an item will roll at its highest tier, it now follows a series of brackets to determine the quality of its rare status.
Why is this a problem? It's twofold. Because the endgame right now IS rare items, and we also have item level to contend with, players are left with two options.
They can farm act 1 with high MF for the significantly rare chance of finding an ilvl 63 (or 62 jewelry) item with a reasonable chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
They can farm act 3 with little-no MF for the uncommon chance of finding an ilvl 63 with a very low chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
It's standard fare to accept that only those with gold values in the tens and hundreds of millions have the capacity to find quality farming gear that also has MF. Therefore, the vast majority of players are in a lose-lose situation. Either method offers you a staggeringly low chance of even acquiring a 5 or 6 affix, high ilvl rare. And this is even before getting into the huge variations on affixes that can spawn on those items.
Diablo 2's farming used to be like penny slots, if you tried enough times at single, quick runs you might not get much, but there was a pretty solid chance you would walk away with something pretty nice after a low to moderate amount of time invested. Diablo 3's farming is like buying a jackpot ticket. More expensive and the chance to get a return of sizable value is astronomically low.
I don't know what else needs to be said. This tier of affixes garbage has to be taken out, and each rare item needs an equal chance of rolling all its possible number of affixes. I would say increase the minimum # affixes on high level items to four, but that would probably be too much fun.
I can't take it anymore, this thread, I already said it earlier, you guys kill me. You absolutely can not, ever, put any sort of guarantee on item drops being good, that would lead to very bad things. All right, I'm done now. Continue on, go slay some demons folks.
Step 1: Buy gold from trade chat for $1.2 per million.
Step 2: Sell gold on RMAH for $3 per million.
Step 3: Pray someone buys it.
This. You know people will be buying when it first comes out
And all reports are pointing to....people are not buying gold on the RMAH. I mean to say, supply is far outstripping demand, and to get demand higher the value needs to go up. And the only way to raise the value is to lower the cost, and Blizzard is not allowing us to do that.
1
For simplicity's sake, let's say you do 100k effective damage to a monster, 1% life leech would be as effective as 200 life on hit. Now, the problem is that life on hit has to go through proc coefficients, and this is where the math get's a little weird. Since life leech does not care how you do the damage nor does it care about proc coefficients, it is always "on" and does not suffer from the Run Like the Wind tornado nerf in 1.05.
So to really determine the effectiveness of life leech vs life on hit, you need to see how a typical whirlwind barbarian does damage. Your character screen damage per second number really isn't how much damage you can do per second, in reality it is much higher. What they should really call it is average weapon damage, but that is another argument. How does a whirler barb do damage? The two big sources are Sprint with Run Like the Wind rune, and of course Whirlwind. The tornado's dropped by Sprint do 20% weapon damage, and they hit multiple times per second depending on your swing speed. Whirlwind does 145% weapon damage per tick, and ticks at the same frequency as Sprint, but Sprint only hits with the main hand while Whirlwind alternates with both weapons. Check ticks per second for both skills here. So, in the end, what does this all mean? For that we need to create a scenario.
A Barbarian has the same exact weapon in both hands, and drops down 4 tornadoes around an enemy and whirlwinds through them twice. Attack speed is 1.75 for both weapons and character screen damage per second is 100,000. This barbarian has 1500 life on hit and 6% life leech. The effective whirlwind time on target is 1.5 seconds per whirlwind. We are attacking one target.
For both skills, the damage calculation is: (skill damage % * weapon damage) (attacks per second * seconds spent attacking) * targets hit.
Sprint = (.2 * 100,000) (4*5.67*3) 1 = 1,360,800 damage (note: 4 tornadoes were dropped, hence the 4.)
Whirlwind = (1.45 * 100,000) (5.67 * 3) 1 = 2,466,450 damage
total damage over 3 seconds = 3,827,250
How many times did we attack during that time? We had 4*5.67*3 hits with Sprint at .20 proc coefficient, and 5.67*3 hits with whirlwind at .13 proc coefficient. Now that we know all that, we can do the life leech vs life on hit calculations.
Life leech = total damage done * (life leech amount * .2 inferno nerf) = 3,827,250 (.06 * .2) = 45927
Life on hit = (total attacks * proc coefficient) * life on hit
Sprint = (4*5.67*3*.2) * 1500 = 19,332 life
WW = (5.67*3*.13) * 1500 = 3,317 life
So 6% life leech got us 45927 life and our 1500 life on hit got us 22,649 life back. This works out to 15309 life per second on life leech and 6444 life per second with the life on hit.
Now, the 1.05 nerf is going to effect the Sprint Coefficient, so the new numbers here are:
(4*5.67*3*.08) * 1500 = 8165
This changes our life per second total on the life on hit to 3827 life per second. So the worth of 1% life leech compared to life on hit?
patch 1.04: 1% life leech = 2552 life per second, 1 life on hit = 15 life per second, which works out to 170 life on hit for 1% life leech.
patch 1.05: 1% life leech = 2552 life per second, 1 life on hit = 2.55 life per second, which works out to 1001 life on hit for 1% life leech.
EDIT: Holy crap I totally messed up that inferno buff nerf to life steal, and it is amazing compared to life on hit. At least at 100k dps. Now, if you do less damage than that, the life steal should scale directly to that. For example, if your barbarian has 1500 life on hit and 50k dps, then life steal is exactly half as valuable. Now that there is a baseline, you can do the math from there. Thank you guys for pointing it out,
tanis0 and GonturanDJ.
Disclaimer: Napkin math is napkin math, if I made an error go ahead and point it out.
tl;dr patch (@100k dps) 1.04 1% life leech = 170 life per hit, patch 1.05 1% life leech = 1001 life per hit
1
And if you got a guaranteed upgrade, you would just kill bosses. Over, and over and over, until you had perfect items everywhere, and then you would do it some more. You would sell the new perfect items on the auction house, with everyone else, and sooner or later no one would buy anything because everyone has the best gear. Then everyone would stop playing, because they already have the best gear and they can't do anything with the drops that they keep getting, so why play?
Not EVERYTHING is junk. If 100% of the items were junk, then where are all the good items being sold for multiple millions of gold on the auction house, or for hundreds of dollars on the RMAH coming from?
I already covered this, just pointing out how many times the same thing has been said.
Terrible idea, see above. Flooding the market with really really good items is a bad idea.
See, you guys are like a broken record. And it's always a bad song playing.
I explained this in another post, but putting limits of any kind on item drops will inevitably lead to the best items being everywhere, and no point to playing the game.
I can't take it anymore, this thread, I already said it earlier, you guys kill me. You absolutely can not, ever, put any sort of guarantee on item drops being good, that would lead to very bad things. All right, I'm done now. Continue on, go slay some demons folks.
1
And all reports are pointing to....people are not buying gold on the RMAH. I mean to say, supply is far outstripping demand, and to get demand higher the value needs to go up. And the only way to raise the value is to lower the cost, and Blizzard is not allowing us to do that.