A good idea is to always use permanent links to sandboxes, since they tend to change a lot. That way it's easier for people to figure out what you actually wanted to link to Permanent links are found under "Toolbox" in the left navbar.
As usual, thanks for all the great info. Wasn't aware of how permanent links work but that's pretty nifty. Here is the link to the example I was talking about While Example. Though my new sanbox2 uses a while template too. I think Wynthyst has about gotten me straightened out with the complexity issue.
Did the nav boxes for every list that was available that didn't already have one. All but staves now have lists with at least common and legendary in them (and nav boxes). Staves had been missing from the equipment navbox so that's possibly why no work had been done on it. I added it in. I also changed the links on the main page so the lists are now easy to find. If anyone wants to help fill in the magic and rares it should be easy to follow the current outlines and any help would be much appreciated.
You know Talkerst, you'd be more likely to get answers to questions about the wiki if you ask them on the wiki....
Thanks for the info. How do I ask a general question on the wiki? I know how to ask an individual or talk about a page, but I haven't seen a general area. Or do I just add it to my talk page and others will find it somehow?
What exactly is the purpose of http://www.diablowiki.com/Template:Demon_Hunter_Skill_Mapping? As I understand it, this is intended to allow for easy updating of all pages which use any skill data pages in the wiki, so that when a new skill is added, all pages will also be updated?
It seems like a rather complicated solution given the low chance that we'll see massive skill changes. If a skill is indeed updated or removed, it won't take that much effort to add it to the handful of pages where it's data page is intended to be used.
It was a process that seems to have taken on a life of its own. I wanted an easy way to navigate between pages (prev/next) and once I got that figured out I realized it could be extended to include all references. By reference I mean places where the class data is linked to and possibly partially displayed. However, due to wiki's limited capabilities it wound out turning into a rather complicated science experiment. I think the idea was good but I let the implementation get out of hand (complexity wise). I'll back it out. Though it does bring up a fundamental question.
It might just be the programmer in me but I view the majority of the work being done now as data driven. With a large data based project I'd normally want to store all the data in one place and then use various algorithms and transformations to display it as desired. As I learn more about extensions (see my while example at User:Talkerst\Sandbox2) I realize this is probably a realizable goal even using wiki. However, what I'm not sure of is if it's something that's desired. For me, I'd rather enter data in one table like place and have a script (even a complicated one) do all the formatting work. That also helps maintain consistency. The flip-side is, if you see something wrong with a generated page you have to know where to go to correct it. While comments can easily point people to the write location the disassociated nature of data and content might turn off the casual wiki editor. Thoughts? Any preexisting methodology that is employed here?
I have another question, with a possible follow up depending on the answer.
*When a template is interpreted (transclusion occurs?) is that done at the server or the client level? I.E. I have a page that is built using a template and that template pulls from two other templates. Does the client download all 4 files and then put them together or does the server build the page and then just send the final result to the client?
I've started on a new phase of redundancy removal. Right now there are several places where skills are referenced and there is a potential for even more. I'm creating a mapping that can be used to navigate through the skill references by both level (forwards and backwards) and via alpha (forwards only). I've already completed the mapping for the Demon Hunter and am using it for the active skills page. I'll be updating the nav box and passive skills tomorrow. This system creates a one stop location for all skill references (by class). By keeping the one file up to date all skill lists will stay up to date. If a new skill is added or one is removed updating the mapping will properly updated all references. At least that's the goal. Something unforeseen could come up but as of now it will work for everything we have in place as well as adding previous and next skill links to the detailed pages.
Personally I prefer alpha since the navbox is intended as an index (provides a quick way to jump to another skill), and if its not sorted I have to look around a bit to find what I want. In addition the skills are already listed by order on the class/Skill_List pages.
Any thoughts on wither it would be useful to have previous and next skill links on each skill's page?
Thanks for the quick responses, much appreciated. I think I'm going to turn the spell id switch (from D3 Skills) into it's own template so that the functionality is preserved but it can be used in other templates or multiple times in D3 Skills.
3. No. What were you planning on doing? What we're using right now are the arrows that can be see in Template:Infobox Item.
I posted my current plans in http://www.diablofans.com/topic/30136-d3-skillsskill-descriptions/ so figured it would be better to just link you to that than have the same topic in multiple threads. I'd like the arrows for the prev/next functionality I'm working on at the moment.
Oops: I forgot to post this after the preview so it's a little out of date now. Posting it anyway.
Edit: Got another question. It just hit me that class_name_en might be shorthand for class name enumeration as opposed to the class name english that I thought it was. Anyone know which way it is?
1. You can also do it with the help of Extension:Variables, which is installed in the wiki. It allows you to create a variable on a page that can be used on other places on the same page. I don't know how transclusions would affect these variables, but you could mess around with it in your sandbox and see how it works.
Just tried out the variable extension and it rocks.
I've wavered back and forth on what I personally feel is the correct order for skill nav boxes. I can see it going either way and really it doesn't make a big difference to me. I just think they should all be the same. Since they aren't now, if a consensus on how we'd like them can be reached I'll do any necessary updates.
Also, I edited in the link to my example previous/next template addition idea.
I've finished up the template change to all the classes and reworked every skill to use it. Should make updates more streamlined and cleans up the skill descriptions quite a bit.
I've noticed that the nav boxes are not consistent between classes. Some are listed in order of level attained while others are in alphabetical order. I was going to change them all to alpha because that just makes more sense. However, this makes it harder to 'walk' the skill list in order. To compensate I was planning on adding previous and next links to the skills template. Thus you would be able to easily step through the full descriptions in order or jump to a particular skill via the nav box. I should have an example up soon but if this doesn't seem like a worthwhile effort let me know.
Edit: Here is an example of how it could look, User:Talkerst/Bola Shot. The links and names are all pulled from a list so it's easy to adjust their look, feel and location via the D3 Skill template.
As I've been working on the wiki I've come up with a slowly growing list of questions. I figured I'd throw them out and see if anyone has an answer.
Is there a way to create local variables?
Is it better to repeat large blocks (for instance the class id switch statement) multiple times on a page or to create a template that acts like a function and can be used multiple times in the same page?
Does the wiki or DiabloFans have any stock images for arrows? Such as fancy up, down, left or right arrows.
I see there's a in front of the description that bumps down the text, that's what you mean right? If so, then that's just part of the information in the data namespace and it will be easy to remove. Apoc has a bot that can go through all of the spell pages and remove that piece.
Yeah, that is what I was referring to. Since I was touching all the files anyway I've removed them from all the descriptions. Though if we ever wanted to use the rune descriptions for something other than in a table it would present a problem with them. Glad to hear it can be done via bot.
No I have no idea. Could you show me where and how the formatting gets messed up?
I added one back into Spike Trap though the new template doesn't like it as well as the old one did. However, you can see what it was doing to the overview formatting at Demon_Hunter/Skill_List. If that doesn't make sense let me know and I'll try to explain better.
In addition, I've finished the updates to the D3 Skill template though I am smarter now so if you aren't using the new parameters you won't see anything. That way the skills can be updated at leisure without looking ugly. The new parameters are:
spell_cost - Used to store the cost of a skill
spell_generate - Used to store how much resource a skill generates (can't be used with cost)
spell_resource_type_en - String for the resource type (I.E. Hatred, Fury, etc.)
spell_extra_info_en - This is where any base skill descriptive text that is not part of the simple skill description should go. Things that would go in here would be like if a Wizard spell is a signature skill. It's info you don't want showing up on the skill's overview on the class's home page.
I've updated the the Demon Hunter and Barbarian skills so you can see what the finished product looks like. I'll work on the others as time permits.
The level in the description was a chicken and the egg issue. I added the level information in, then adjusted the template. So I left the info in the description until the template change was complete. Now that it's done I've gone back and removed it from the description. I know it's a lot of steps but I didn't want their to be a period of time when no level information was available.
As for <noinclude>{{Data:Spells/Monk_Skills}}</noinclude> I was going to just remove it based on a couple people requesting that.
You can see how the system works by checking out the Demon Hunter page. You'll see some extra info that wasn't there before due to it being in the skills description. I think that info should be changed to parameters so it doesn't have to show up there unless we want it to. That's probably the next thing I'm going to tackle. Was planning on adding parameters for cost, subcategory and extra info (stuff that shouldn't be in a brief description). This will require me to touch all the skills yet again so if anyone would like to see something else changed to a parameter let me know so I can get them all at the same time.
Edit: Also, does anyone know why almost all of the string parameters in the skills start with a BR? It seems to have no effect on their display in the tables but does mess up formatting if they are displayed else where. Had the one from spell_desc_en on all the skills so that the descriptions would display nice on the classes home page. Seems like they add nothing but make re-using the data harder.
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It might just be the programmer in me but I view the majority of the work being done now as data driven. With a large data based project I'd normally want to store all the data in one place and then use various algorithms and transformations to display it as desired. As I learn more about extensions (see my while example at
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*When a template is interpreted (transclusion occurs?) is that done at the server or the client level? I.E. I have a page that is built using a template and that template pulls from two other templates. Does the client download all 4 files and then put them together or does the server build the page and then just send the final result to the client?
Thanks
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I posted my current plans in http://www.diablofans.com/topic/30136-d3-skillsskill-descriptions/ so figured it would be better to just link you to that than have the same topic in multiple threads. I'd like the arrows for the prev/next functionality I'm working on at the moment.
Oops: I forgot to post this after the preview so it's a little out of date now. Posting it anyway.
Edit: Got another question. It just hit me that class_name_en might be shorthand for class name enumeration as opposed to the class name english that I thought it was. Anyone know which way it is?
Just tried out the variable extension and it rocks.
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Also, I edited in the link to my example previous/next template addition idea.
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I've noticed that the nav boxes are not consistent between classes. Some are listed in order of level attained while others are in alphabetical order. I was going to change them all to alpha because that just makes more sense. However, this makes it harder to 'walk' the skill list in order. To compensate I was planning on adding previous and next links to the skills template. Thus you would be able to easily step through the full descriptions in order or jump to a particular skill via the nav box. I should have an example up soon but if this doesn't seem like a worthwhile effort let me know.
Edit: Here is an example of how it could look,
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Thanks for any responses.
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In addition, I've finished the updates to the D3 Skill template though I am smarter now so if you aren't using the new parameters you won't see anything. That way the skills can be updated at leisure without looking ugly. The new parameters are:
I've updated the the
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As for <noinclude>{{Data:Spells/Monk_Skills}}</noinclude> I was going to just remove it based on a couple people requesting that.
You can see how the system works by checking out the
Edit: Also, does anyone know why almost all of the string parameters in the skills start with a BR? It seems to have no effect on their display in the tables but does mess up formatting if they are displayed else where. Had the one from spell_desc_en on all the skills so that the descriptions would display nice on the classes home page. Seems like they add nothing but make re-using the data harder.