It amazes me that the topic creator manages to decide why people still play D2, all on his own accord, and uses this to argue that D3 should focus more on PvP.
Randomization is in my opinion the far biggest reason why people still play D2, simply put, you can always find better gear. There's always something you can do, try getting a character to 99, it's insane. Not to mention trading, with such a messy trading system as that which currently exists in D2, it's rather easy to increase your wealth by trading, seeing as it's always possibly to buy low and sell high.
PvP is just a fraction of the game, I'm not saying it's not fun, but it's not the entire game. Nor will it be in D3, D3 focuses solely on PvE, it's a story, based on lore, which is why there have been people playing the franchise for over 10 years, it's a damn good story. PvP is just added in D3 to give people something to do for fun, it's not supposed to be an e-sport, and if that hurts your feelings, then you should really find a different game.
First of all I didn't make the original post, I made the poll, the author of the post does make some assumptions which I do not entirely agree with... I just think having options is always good. Lore or not when u do it 100 times you won't care about it anymore, unless they keep adding content which doesn't seem likely cause it is D3 not WoW.
A lot of you are not even reading the poll and just voting, I said would you like there to be an option? in terms of having ranked pvp and not. Not saying I want D3 to be PVP PVP PVP oriented
Lengthy read, but please do take the time to read:
Jay Wilson, I am directing this thread at you because you seem to severely dislike PvP for some reason, and yet you are the head of the Diablo 3 development team, and those 2 facts combined honestly chills me to my bones, thinking about what Diablo 3's PvP mode might turn out to be like -- terribly supported.
You've stated (on video if I might add) that you laugh in the face of those who value PvP in Diablo games. "Shut up PvP guy" is what you said. That honestly hurts, and I'm sure I share the same sentiments with a ton of other people.
So let me ask you: Have you been on Diablo 2 recently? Maybe even just 3 years ago, or yesterday? I'm guessing not, because you've been so busy with developing Diablo 3. But let me mention that the reason why Diablo 2 has survived until this day is due to PvP. Just pure PvP. That is the reason why people still purchase the Diablo Battle Chest at Best Buy for $40 a pop 10 years after release, when there are modern games like Portal 2 and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 on the shelves. For Christ sakes, Diablo 2 is over 10 years old, and thousands upon thousands of people still play it religiously every single day. As you've even claimed yourself, people spend actual $$$ on D2 pixels via 3rd party sites. Even for those people who do not spend real $$$, you know what they do? They do countless Meph runs, Chaos runs, Baal runs, and other such runs just to find better items. Why do people do all of that still? Because farming the same bosses over and over is fun? Because people enjoy spending money on pixels to look cool? No. It's because people want to build their characters up and become the best at PvP.
You've really got to be out-of-touch with the Diablo 2 player base if you think that people still play that game just so they can kill Baal one more time. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. Your stats might say people spend countless hours in the Baal Throne Room or spend countless hours killing Mephisto, but what they are doing is farming for better gear so that they can use it in PvP. PvP is the ultimate endgame. And it is going to be the same way for D3. Simple as that.
With that said, I think I speak on behalf of the majority of potential Diablo 3 players when I say: We want more PvP features. More PvP features doesn't equate to "promoting e-sports". I know you are vehemently against balancing the game for the sake of e-sports, and that's okay. Diablo 3's PvP is meant to be casual anyway. But features like replays, spectator modes, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, Last-man-standing, are all COOL features. They don't have to be linked to e-sports to be cool. They are just inherently awesome in any game, whether it is in an FPS or an RPG. They add depth to the PvP, and they make the PvP aspect of the game infinitely more enjoyable and replayable. Heck, you can even twist the new PvP features to benefit Blizzard financially. More features on PvP = more people who want to get better at PvP = more people spend money to buy gear on your RM AH. You get more profit, we get more features.
Relying on PvM alone to make people's interest for D3 last is just plain foolish. I understand that in an ideal world with unicorns and rainbows, the Diablo 3 team that you are heading would like everyone to be completely enamored with the main campaign and PvM aspect of D3 for eternity. But like clockwork, people will get bored and tired of the campaign after a certain number of play-throughs. If I learned anything from my history professor: Analysis of past events is the best tool you can have at your disposal to better prepare yourself for the future. In this case, Diablo 2 is what you should be looking at. Diablo 2 solved the staleness by having PvP as the endgame. Heck, if there were no hacks/mods to sour the Diablo 2 PvP experience right now, and if Diablo 3 weren't coming out, PvP alone would carry Diablo 2 for another 10 years.
So Jay Wilson, please I am begging you: don't skimp out on D3's PvP. It is immensely more important than you think it is. PvM is great, but PvP is greater.
Hopefully I didn't come off as sounding too childish or hostile, but I feel strongly about the potential neglect of D3's PvP mode(s) and features. People if you agree, bump and reply to this post. I want Jay Wilson, Bashiok, and the entire D3 development team to realize how big of a population of people actually care about the success of PvP in D3.
We need a ladder, and ratings, some people play the game only because of this, why is diablo trying to drive away and cut of some of their playerbase.
What if blizzard was to check your ip as you enter the realm, kind of like TV channel streaming websites, you know when you try to watch a US network online from Canada it won't let you. Same idea but for diablo, can't enter USeast/USwest unless you have a provider from that continent.
I know you could argue proxies but comeon, those are laggy as fuck and proxying USeast from like china is gonna be laggggy as fuckkk
Are you actually suggesting banning everyone from China that wants to play on the US server? Even if they did that, as ridiculous as it is, how would they control gold farming in China?
First of all to make a legit business out of selling items on Diablo 3 will take a HUGE investement. Like another poster said they would have to buy dozens of copies of D3 dozens of computers that can run D3 than pay workers to farm items. I don't think the RMAH will be able to support such an investment especially when they are going to be competing with me who will always make my buyout price lower. Besides they will be regionally seperated so even if a few chinese businesses get in they won't be driving the market in the US anyway.
Because chinese farmers can't buy dozens of copies and dozens of computers? Do you have any idea the amounts of money they move around? And you really think you'll undercut them? I hate to break it to you, but you're dealing with professionals who've got entire workforces behind them, and who possess way more knowledge about the market than you. They actually got manpower. If Blizzard doesn't stop them (and I don't see how they will), you'll be no match for them, you can rest assured. Ever heard of WoW?
Both of you seem to only care about what happens where you play. Well in that case, I got news for you: the north american server will be the one that is going to be the most plagued with gold farmers and the like.
As long as chinese farming stays in china, doesn't bother me.
What if blizzard was to check your ip as you enter the realm, kind of like TV channel streaming websites, you know when you try to watch a US network online from Canada it won't let you. Same idea but for diablo, can't enter USeast/USwest unless you have a provider from that continent.
I know you could argue proxies but comeon, those are laggy as fuck and proxying USeast from like china is gonna be laggggy as fuckkk
While there will be some impact like you suggest, alot of these "workers" can't afford their own computer + internet connection, that's why they go to an "office" to "work" for whatever company. There was nothing else stopping them from farming on their home computers and delivering gold electronically to X company after all. So we'll still see alot of organized companies just to maintain the computer setups.
why would they deliver $$ to X company, when they can deliver it to their bank account. Personally I am still very interested to see how this will pan out, I doubt those 3rd party farmhouse companies will be able to make as much money as they used to, it will be more inefficient I think then before, maybe even inefficient enough to start making shoes instead.
I was giving it a second thought, would there actually be organized chinese farming since they are legalizing GOLD/DOLLAR trade.. I don't think so, there is no incentives for chinese farmers to go into a sweatshop and farm a certain item anymore, because they can do it by themselves, they don't need a company to sell it for them anymore. They can do all of it themselves...
This is taking for granted the various pleasures of life a citizen of China may not have. For example, a computer, electricity, an internet connection, and a valid license of Diablo III.
So what are you suggesting a farmhouse existing with computers for the to play diablo3 and farm monitoring what they make and taking a cut??
Blizzard should just pay the chinese govt couple of billion to make it against the law to have a diablo3/wow sweatshop... keep it to nike/reebok
I was giving it a second thought, would there actually be organized chinese farming since they are legalizing GOLD/DOLLAR trade.. I don't think so, there is no incentives for chinese farmers to go into a sweatshop and farm a certain item anymore, because they can do it by themselves, they don't need a company to sell it for them anymore. They can do all of it themselves...
This is taking for granted the various pleasures of life a citizen of China may not have. For example, a computer, electricity, an internet connection, and a valid license of Diablo III.
So what are you suggesting a farmhouse existing with computers for the to play diablo3 and farm monitoring what they make and taking a cut??
I was giving it a second thought, would there actually be organized chinese farming since they are legalizing GOLD/DOLLAR trade.. I don't think so, there is no incentives for chinese farmers to go into a sweatshop and farm a certain item anymore, because they can do it by themselves, they don't need a company to sell it for them anymore. They can do all of it themselves...
And since the asians won't be organized anymore, there won't be a massive overflow of items, asians will go onto making shoes, or doing other profitable things. Maybe playing the game themselves trying to sell the items, but since the farming isn't organized it will decrease i believe instead of increasing. The role that the company had of feeding the farmers or paying them low wages is gone because the farmers can now pay themselves, thus they are not organized..
You can compare this to illegal drugs, they were once banned by the govt and there was gangs to control different areas and stuff, paying people to chop little shit for them. But if they legalize the drug there will no longer be a need for gangs...
I think you guys all missed this important point, maybe solo farming will increase, but it won't be nearly as effective as organized farmhouses flooding the economy.
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First of all I didn't make the original post, I made the poll, the author of the post does make some assumptions which I do not entirely agree with... I just think having options is always good. Lore or not when u do it 100 times you won't care about it anymore, unless they keep adding content which doesn't seem likely cause it is D3 not WoW.
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A lot of you are not even reading the poll and just voting, I said would you like there to be an option? in terms of having ranked pvp and not. Not saying I want D3 to be PVP PVP PVP oriented
3
Lengthy read, but please do take the time to read:
Jay Wilson, I am directing this thread at you because you seem to severely dislike PvP for some reason, and yet you are the head of the Diablo 3 development team, and those 2 facts combined honestly chills me to my bones, thinking about what Diablo 3's PvP mode might turn out to be like -- terribly supported.
You've stated (on video if I might add) that you laugh in the face of those who value PvP in Diablo games. "Shut up PvP guy" is what you said. That honestly hurts, and I'm sure I share the same sentiments with a ton of other people.
So let me ask you: Have you been on Diablo 2 recently? Maybe even just 3 years ago, or yesterday? I'm guessing not, because you've been so busy with developing Diablo 3. But let me mention that the reason why Diablo 2 has survived until this day is due to PvP. Just pure PvP. That is the reason why people still purchase the Diablo Battle Chest at Best Buy for $40 a pop 10 years after release, when there are modern games like Portal 2 and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 on the shelves. For Christ sakes, Diablo 2 is over 10 years old, and thousands upon thousands of people still play it religiously every single day. As you've even claimed yourself, people spend actual $$$ on D2 pixels via 3rd party sites. Even for those people who do not spend real $$$, you know what they do? They do countless Meph runs, Chaos runs, Baal runs, and other such runs just to find better items. Why do people do all of that still? Because farming the same bosses over and over is fun? Because people enjoy spending money on pixels to look cool? No. It's because people want to build their characters up and become the best at PvP.
You've really got to be out-of-touch with the Diablo 2 player base if you think that people still play that game just so they can kill Baal one more time. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. Your stats might say people spend countless hours in the Baal Throne Room or spend countless hours killing Mephisto, but what they are doing is farming for better gear so that they can use it in PvP. PvP is the ultimate endgame. And it is going to be the same way for D3. Simple as that.
With that said, I think I speak on behalf of the majority of potential Diablo 3 players when I say: We want more PvP features. More PvP features doesn't equate to "promoting e-sports". I know you are vehemently against balancing the game for the sake of e-sports, and that's okay. Diablo 3's PvP is meant to be casual anyway. But features like replays, spectator modes, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, Last-man-standing, are all COOL features. They don't have to be linked to e-sports to be cool. They are just inherently awesome in any game, whether it is in an FPS or an RPG. They add depth to the PvP, and they make the PvP aspect of the game infinitely more enjoyable and replayable. Heck, you can even twist the new PvP features to benefit Blizzard financially. More features on PvP = more people who want to get better at PvP = more people spend money to buy gear on your RM AH. You get more profit, we get more features.
Relying on PvM alone to make people's interest for D3 last is just plain foolish. I understand that in an ideal world with unicorns and rainbows, the Diablo 3 team that you are heading would like everyone to be completely enamored with the main campaign and PvM aspect of D3 for eternity. But like clockwork, people will get bored and tired of the campaign after a certain number of play-throughs. If I learned anything from my history professor: Analysis of past events is the best tool you can have at your disposal to better prepare yourself for the future. In this case, Diablo 2 is what you should be looking at. Diablo 2 solved the staleness by having PvP as the endgame. Heck, if there were no hacks/mods to sour the Diablo 2 PvP experience right now, and if Diablo 3 weren't coming out, PvP alone would carry Diablo 2 for another 10 years.
So Jay Wilson, please I am begging you: don't skimp out on D3's PvP. It is immensely more important than you think it is. PvM is great, but PvP is greater.
Hopefully I didn't come off as sounding too childish or hostile, but I feel strongly about the potential neglect of D3's PvP mode(s) and features. People if you agree, bump and reply to this post. I want Jay Wilson, Bashiok, and the entire D3 development team to realize how big of a population of people actually care about the success of PvP in D3.
We need a ladder, and ratings, some people play the game only because of this, why is diablo trying to drive away and cut of some of their playerbase.
I made a poll
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It is them that are ruining gameplay for us westerners... Imo blizzard should try and control them.
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As long as chinese farming stays in china, doesn't bother me.
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I know you could argue proxies but comeon, those are laggy as fuck and proxying USeast from like china is gonna be laggggy as fuckkk
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why would they deliver $$ to X company, when they can deliver it to their bank account. Personally I am still very interested to see how this will pan out, I doubt those 3rd party farmhouse companies will be able to make as much money as they used to, it will be more inefficient I think then before, maybe even inefficient enough to start making shoes instead.
0
Blizzard should just pay the chinese govt couple of billion to make it against the law to have a diablo3/wow sweatshop... keep it to nike/reebok
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So what are you suggesting a farmhouse existing with computers for the to play diablo3 and farm monitoring what they make and taking a cut??
0
And since the asians won't be organized anymore, there won't be a massive overflow of items, asians will go onto making shoes, or doing other profitable things. Maybe playing the game themselves trying to sell the items, but since the farming isn't organized it will decrease i believe instead of increasing. The role that the company had of feeding the farmers or paying them low wages is gone because the farmers can now pay themselves, thus they are not organized..
You can compare this to illegal drugs, they were once banned by the govt and there was gangs to control different areas and stuff, paying people to chop little shit for them. But if they legalize the drug there will no longer be a need for gangs...
I think you guys all missed this important point, maybe solo farming will increase, but it won't be nearly as effective as organized farmhouses flooding the economy.