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- Nethara
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Member for 12 years, 8 months, and 23 days
Last active Fri, Jul, 28 2017 01:28:07
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Aug 3, 2011Nethara posted a message on Runic Revision?Posted in: NewsQuote from PantheraOnca
As a point of comparison, saying that you should know what type of rune it is sounds awfully similar to saying "i should know if that small charm gives life before i pick it up."
I don't think that's a valid complaint.
Try viewing the "socketing" process as simply using a scroll of identify on the item. Lets go with unique rings as another example, if a unique ring drops and it doesn't turn out to be an SoJ, you don't complain "goddamnit! WHY DIDN'T THEY LET ME KNOW IT WASN'T AN SOJ AHEAD OF TIME!!!1!`" You have a moment of anticipation when you pick it up and right before you identify it, then its "goddamned nagelring" or "oh nice, its a 'ravenfrost,' i needed one for this char" or hell, it might be a BK ring. YOU DON'T KNOW. and when you find out its either trash, useful, trade fodder, or amazing. The same will apply to runes. Except now they can also be cash-money.
getting a (lets say) lvl 5 rune of the type you want would be similar to getting a skiller with a not-great affix attached, lets say like mana (did gc's give mana? i haven't played d2 in a whiiiiile). It gets the job done, but there are upgrades that you will continue looking for (and playing the game for).
lvl 6 and 7 runes will of course be harder to find, but who's to say that they even give THAT much more power. Maybe a lvl 5 magic missile rune lets you hit 6 targets and a lvl 7 lets you hit 8. I think you can get by without those extra 2 hits, but they would certainly help out. it gives you something to play for while not being completely absolutely necessary (opinions will differ on that).
And I hope that runes are re-blank-able. That will be a fantastic gold sink, which will be good for the game's economy.
And you don't just need 1 lvl 7 rune, you'd need anywhere from 6-100, depending on how flexible you plan to be with your character. That makes MASSIVE demand, which makes for healthy trading.
Some people seem to be arguing that there will be no gradient between lvl 1 and 7 rune drops. You'll get a taste of what a run does real early via candy-runes, and then you'll get hell-functional runes probably by the time you get to hell difficulty, with the absolutely best runes being an item hunt similar to an anni charm or hellfire torch or a windforce or whatever.
I don't see how any of that is bad.
There is a key difference between charms and runes though. Runes define how you play your character. An example I could take out of the press conferance is the battle mage. A rune for arcane orb, a spell you generally wouldn't use as a battle mage, made it swirl protectively around you (mario kart?). My point is that you would never replace your level 6 indigo (just a guess, I don't know what color it is) for a level 7 crimson if you're trying to build a battle mage. I should know what I'm socketing, and I shouldn't have to spend tons of gold if I'm unlucky, since it's a playstyle change, not just a stat change.
This is why I think that unattuned runes should still have a color. The random affixes is what should be random. You would still use a level 7 indigo rune if it had slightly optimal stats over a level 6 indigo rune that has more optimal stats (but less of them). I would feel a lot better about min/maxing by rerolling repeatedly on something that isn't a playstyle choice. Even though I would almost advocate for a complete removal of the affix if you unlock a rune through the mystic, to give your runes more of a sense of investment when you use them. Just my thought though. -
Aug 3, 2011Nethara posted a message on Runic Revision?Posted in: NewsQuote from Auluaden
Quote from dramora2205
Let them move a crimson to another skill without it changing color, but you'll lose the affix then.
And then damage experimentation of builds, which was one of their reasons for the current skill systems (To allow you to experiment easier and change your build easier.) Bonding it to the skill to begin with even damages this. At release, I doubt we'll see runes with random affixes being attuned permanently to a single skill. If they attune to one skill on release, it will probably be easy to wipe them, and keep the affix. Otherwise you just harm experimentation with builds, and people will feel like they -need- to always keep the currently picked skills, otherwise they waste a rune and have to find a new one. In theory it sounds more acceptable, than it actually will be in practice. I'm all for randomized bonuses on the runes, but perm. attunement, I just see as being contrary to the direction they want to take the game, and the skill system. After all, it's just another way of locking in a skill, and why bother removing respecs and allowing players to swap skills around to experiment, if you then also introduce a mechanic that punishes them for experimenting? And as far as having to equip the rune to see what it will do, well, that's not something that will fly in release, either. It will frustrate and confuse people and, again, is contrary to the direction of making it easy to view what each piece of gear/skill is going to benefit. They go to such lengths on the character screen, as far as stats and how things effect your character, I can't see runes having to be equipped to show their benefits, as being a good choice, when combined with permanent attunement.
Wall of texts are fun.
You make some good points, and I agree with a few of them. I don't think that you shouldn't know the color before socketing. That part I'm very confident won't make it into the final build, which makes part of my original post irrelevant.
As for experimentation...the entire point of locking a rune to a skill would be to force players to specialize more. Runes apparently drop like candy at low levels, and you can experiment with those. But a lot of players see this new skill system and automatically think "oh god, people can just swap skills out and copy me instantly", and that's something that locking runes would prevent, to a point.
As for changing removing the affix when you unlock it...that's a good point, but I think that it's not quite so bad. One question that's important is...how big will these bonuses be? If they're big and noticeable, then yes, you have a good point.
I guess another point I didn't really make in my post was that you should be experimenting with, say, level five or six runes, and focusing your level seven runes, which will presumably be fairly rare, on your main abilities. It makes respeccing more of an investment, while not making it impossible. You shouldn't be pulling runes from your main abilities to experiment anyways. -
Aug 3, 2011Nethara posted a message on Runic Revision?Posted in: NewsQuote from Gheed2010
Still tinkering with the only real customization system left since stats were abandoned long ago and other trade type stuff was dumped = 2012.
This wouldn't be a terribly complicated system to implement. Speaking as a programmer, most of the framework is already in. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already playing with the idea. -
Aug 3, 2011Nethara posted a message on Runic Revision?Posted in: NewsQuote from zeldarules28
I would prefer the original rune system. A few different types, do different things in each ability.
The new rune system does that. It just adds a little random to the system. There are still 5 colors of rune, and you still socket them, and each color does something different to whatever ability it's socketed to.
One question we would have to answer with this system is...if a mystic "unlocks" a rune, would it keep the color? Or would it go back to grey so you can re-roll for it.
I would prefer the first one. It takes away from the hunt for the correct rune if you can continuously reroll for a new rune without killing things. So, basically if you use a mystic to unlock your crimson magic missiles rune, it just becomes a blank crystal rune.
The same question can be asked for the random affixes. Do they stay on the rune even when unattuned? Does it let you re-roll for new stats? Or does it clear the affix completely. My vote is actually for the "clear completely" option. Discourage players from just swapping runes around willy-nilly. Let them move a crimson to another skill without it changing color, but you'll lose the affix then. -
Aug 2, 2011Nethara posted a message on Runic Revision?Here's my take.Posted in: News
Most of this system is sound. Specifically, locking runes to your skills, and the random affixes. These both force the players to specialize by forcing players to choose the skills to place their best runes in.
The issue I have is with the whole "unknown until socketed" system. Here are two scenarios that explain why:
New Player:
"Yay I found a rune! It says that I can socket it into an ability to make it do new things! <sockets magic missiles> Wow! It shoots two shots now! <Players a little more> Wait, another rune! This one is level two though, must make my magic missiles shoot 3 shots! <sockets the rune> WHAT!?! IT DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT NOW!?! WTH!!!!! <goes on general chat channels and spams>
Not Good.
Veteran Player:
"Awesome, I found another level 7 rune. I'll just socket it into my magic missil...DAMNIT! IT'S ANOTHER OBSIDIAN RUNE! I wanted crimson in my magic missiles! And to top it off, I wanted obsidian in my arcane orb instead. This sucks, now I wasted a rune."
Give runes random stats and lock them to my skills, but show me the color first.
This system would cause an inventory issue though, since you could potentially have 5 runes per ability in your stash. The solution? Allow the mystic to "unlock" a rune, costing gold and/or crafting materials (based on rune level), so you can keep runes for common skills, and a few "unattuned" runes around for general purpose at the end game. How would this affect the affixes? Honestly I think that unlocking the rune should lose the affix, so that you're discouraged from just swapping runes every time you want to. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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The reason we didn't get PVP this year (presumably) is because the development team had to devote a lot of unplanned time to improving the game's other systems (monster power, paragon levels, etc). We don't want any more time taken on other things when we could have PVP sooner.
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There is a key difference between charms and runes though. Runes define how you play your character. An example I could take out of the press conferance is the battle mage. A rune for arcane orb, a spell you generally wouldn't use as a battle mage, made it swirl protectively around you (mario kart?). My point is that you would never replace your level 6 indigo (just a guess, I don't know what color it is) for a level 7 crimson if you're trying to build a battle mage. I should know what I'm socketing, and I shouldn't have to spend tons of gold if I'm unlucky, since it's a playstyle change, not just a stat change.
This is why I think that unattuned runes should still have a color. The random affixes is what should be random. You would still use a level 7 indigo rune if it had slightly optimal stats over a level 6 indigo rune that has more optimal stats (but less of them). I would feel a lot better about min/maxing by rerolling repeatedly on something that isn't a playstyle choice. Even though I would almost advocate for a complete removal of the affix if you unlock a rune through the mystic, to give your runes more of a sense of investment when you use them. Just my thought though.
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Wall of texts are fun.
You make some good points, and I agree with a few of them. I don't think that you shouldn't know the color before socketing. That part I'm very confident won't make it into the final build, which makes part of my original post irrelevant.
As for experimentation...the entire point of locking a rune to a skill would be to force players to specialize more. Runes apparently drop like candy at low levels, and you can experiment with those. But a lot of players see this new skill system and automatically think "oh god, people can just swap skills out and copy me instantly", and that's something that locking runes would prevent, to a point.
As for changing removing the affix when you unlock it...that's a good point, but I think that it's not quite so bad. One question that's important is...how big will these bonuses be? If they're big and noticeable, then yes, you have a good point.
I guess another point I didn't really make in my post was that you should be experimenting with, say, level five or six runes, and focusing your level seven runes, which will presumably be fairly rare, on your main abilities. It makes respeccing more of an investment, while not making it impossible. You shouldn't be pulling runes from your main abilities to experiment anyways.
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This wouldn't be a terribly complicated system to implement. Speaking as a programmer, most of the framework is already in. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already playing with the idea.
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The new rune system does that. It just adds a little random to the system. There are still 5 colors of rune, and you still socket them, and each color does something different to whatever ability it's socketed to.
One question we would have to answer with this system is...if a mystic "unlocks" a rune, would it keep the color? Or would it go back to grey so you can re-roll for it.
I would prefer the first one. It takes away from the hunt for the correct rune if you can continuously reroll for a new rune without killing things. So, basically if you use a mystic to unlock your crimson magic missiles rune, it just becomes a blank crystal rune.
The same question can be asked for the random affixes. Do they stay on the rune even when unattuned? Does it let you re-roll for new stats? Or does it clear the affix completely. My vote is actually for the "clear completely" option. Discourage players from just swapping runes around willy-nilly. Let them move a crimson to another skill without it changing color, but you'll lose the affix then.
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Most of this system is sound. Specifically, locking runes to your skills, and the random affixes. These both force the players to specialize by forcing players to choose the skills to place their best runes in.
The issue I have is with the whole "unknown until socketed" system. Here are two scenarios that explain why:
New Player:
"Yay I found a rune! It says that I can socket it into an ability to make it do new things! <sockets magic missiles> Wow! It shoots two shots now! <Players a little more> Wait, another rune! This one is level two though, must make my magic missiles shoot 3 shots! <sockets the rune> WHAT!?! IT DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT NOW!?! WTH!!!!! <goes on general chat channels and spams>
Not Good.
Veteran Player:
"Awesome, I found another level 7 rune. I'll just socket it into my magic missil...DAMNIT! IT'S ANOTHER OBSIDIAN RUNE! I wanted crimson in my magic missiles! And to top it off, I wanted obsidian in my arcane orb instead. This sucks, now I wasted a rune."
Give runes random stats and lock them to my skills, but show me the color first.
This system would cause an inventory issue though, since you could potentially have 5 runes per ability in your stash. The solution? Allow the mystic to "unlock" a rune, costing gold and/or crafting materials (based on rune level), so you can keep runes for common skills, and a few "unattuned" runes around for general purpose at the end game. How would this affect the affixes? Honestly I think that unlocking the rune should lose the affix, so that you're discouraged from just swapping runes every time you want to.