DiabloFans

Created an account to double post and bring nothing relevant to the discussion. *slow clap*

But remember how LoD in the end shaped up to be. Don't remember which patch it was but things had to be made harder because the game became too easy for the people who gained some experience and decent gear. Immunities had to be introduced, monster health and damage increased just to make the game challenging again. It is ok for people to be dying like crazy 10 days after the game's release. Look at the big picture. At whatever slow pace it will be people will progress through the game and obtain better and better gear. And once they do they don't want to find out that inferno is suddenly too easy for them because it was nerfed soon after release when there was not enough reliable feedback to go on. If I were Blizzard, I'd give things a little bit more time to settle down because some things just balance themselves over time as builds get more refined, people get better at the game and gear starts popping up a little more for those who try. AFAIK the most complaints voiced are about Inferno difficulty, not the others. And inferno difficulty is the hardcore player's end game. Something they should be having fun with years after the game's release. It is unreasonable to expect good results from inferno playing experience this early.

The reason why people don't want nerfs is because many have heard and probably even more have experienced the disaster known as Wow. There was a similar process going on...people complaining that the game is too hard and that they don't get to see all the content in the game. And Blizzard started listening. Nerfs came. And more of them. By now the game is so embarassingly easy (from what I've heard, never played it before you call me a WoW fanboy) that even a guild full of morons can run the majority of the boses while hardcore players are screaming for more difficulty.

The basic problem that the game is facing is that Blizzard has to cater to two demographics at the same time. There is the veterans, who played D2 and loved every second of it (like me). Those are the people who have a lot of expereince in the genre and also a lot of expectations. They want their gaming exprience to be challenging and difficult so that there is higher skill ceiling in the game and more potential for greatness and adrenaline-filled action. Then there is the causal crowd, the ones who didn't get to experience D1 or D2. And who can blame them? The game is 12 years old and for some of them that's just too far back to have played it and coming back to it now is difficult. Those are the people who need easing into the game and need to have a good learning curve so that the game is fun and they get to develop gradually.

The issue is that catering to one does not cater to the other. If you make the game easy so the casual fan can finish everything and not throw tantrums and keyboards all around, the hardcore fan will be bored off of his ass. If you make the game difficult so that even the hardcore players and minmaxers have a hard time going through it, you will have swarms of casual fans demanding that all content be made accessible to them as well. No matter what you do you will not please everybody. The only way to do this is to have dedicated sections for each. Casual fans have normal where they can screw around without much punishment and if they feel like it they can go nightmare and hell to test their skills and improve. The hardcore fans have inferno to sink their teeth into and really get the most challenge out of their game. Nerfing inferno sounds a lot like making inferno accessible to the casual while removing this dedicated section for the hardcore players. The basic design philosophy for inferno was that not everybody will get to experience it, it's the difficulty for the elite and quite naturally it will carry elite benefits only for those who are good enough to make it there. If you remove these benefits so that the casual fan does really have access to all the gear and such, what entices a hardcore player to play Inferno when he knows he will get bugger all out of his play time and might as well just play Hell over and over again for the same benefit?

As for the one shots, they are in fact a test of skill and ability. I remember playing Titan Quest, another hack and slash game in the style of Diablo. The best feature in that game was that on higher difficulties, bosses and some mobs had skills that just simply meant guaranteed death if you didn't learn to avoid them. If you were mindless and ignored what the enemy was doing, you were dead guaranteed 100% of the time you fought to boss and could do 6000 runs and never get it. If you were skillful and kited the dangerous abilities, you were in for a fast paced, high octane fight full of near escapes and close calls and you really got a great feeling of reward out of your skill in playing the game. Would you get the boss the first time? Hell no. But through learning their tells and knowing what to do when and what's coming you could gradually master the boss and the next time you encountered him with a different character you suddenly found that it wasn't all that terribly hard if you played well.

Diablo 3 has been out for a week and a half. How can any of you expect to have mastered the game so that you can tell what needs nerfing and what is balanced? Nobody has the experience with the game necessary to judge anything. I'm not 100% defending what Blizzard has produced and that it shouldn't never ever be touched. All I'm saying is, it's just too damn early to try and think about balancing the game when the feedback they get is from people who have a whooping 10 days of experience in the game. So hold your damn horses and don't go all nerf this nerf that balance this class and this needs to be buffed when we know bugger all about the game at this point. If anybody thinks that they have the perfect build that should be able to beat inferno and they are unable to pull it off, think about this. The game doesn't necessarily have to be broken, it's just that maybe your knowledge of the possible builds and gear isn't good enough after 10 freaking days.

Another thing. People wanting better gear. I repeat whe have had exactly 10 days to farm the items. There's no way anybody is geared up well enough to think they can progress through inferno as if it were hell difficulty. What happens in the long run? After year or two when people will be all geared up with the best of the best items in the game through constant farming, just playing the game or buying stuff through the AH? Suddenly with the ideal gear inferno will not be so hard anymore, people will start progressing through at some slow pace. If they make gear better and/or nerf Inferno now, what will people be doing on year from today? Being bored of the game cause it's too damn easy.

Funny how people have become these days. I don't remember id Software thinking about nerfing Doom 2's Nightmare difficulty even though it was unreal how hard it was. There are just difficulties that are not meant for everybody, deal with it.

Alright maybe I'm just going to fuel the fire here just because I haven't played D3 yet (not by choice I assure you, it's killing me), but if what the blue tracker shows is a representative sample of what the official forums are like then I'm sorry but how anybody can compare the official forums with Diablofans is beyond me. No matter the substance of the message, whether it is negative feedback or feedback that is entirely positive all the time as some of you claim here, the way the message is formulated matters. The amount of flaming, hate and bile coming out of the official forums is disgusting, and it does not benefit anybody. People are just voicing their rage without expressing any valid opinion, suggesting solutions to given problems etc, they are just pointing at Blizzard yelling "look what you did wrong during development, look what I'm really angry about and now watch me rub it in your face". Posts saying Bliz should have given more content for testing so that ballance is better are not only going all "what if" on the issue but provide completely unreasonable feedback (giving inferno for testing would mean either providing pre-geared characters or giving out the entire game in the beta...useless either way). I'm pretty damn proud to say here at Diablofans the feedback is mostly constructive and believe me when I say that the PR people are just humans, and flaming does them as much harm as it does anybody else. If you cannot voice constructive criticism and do it in a polite manner then it's better to just shut up and let others voice their concerns instead of just mudding the waters with hate and rage. Also for those saying how non-critical Diablofans are, I suggest you look at some of the updates we had on game development. Believe it or not positive feedback helps as well...there's a difference between seeing a thread where everybody is criticising how bad the game is and a thread where the feedback is split 60/40. It's the positive feedback that might in the long run save us from D3 ending up as easy and nerfed to the ground as WoW.

"Nobody wants to farm the 2nd difficulty, nobody. That shouldnt even be an option."

Oh my god please somebody tell me which idiot wrote that. I need someone to slap right now. If this is the feedback Blizz is getting, we can expect an Inferno nerf by the end of next week. I hope they stick to what they aimed at and keep the game as hard as it can be...forever.

Ah, the naivety of people. First off, for those who can't log in and wanted to play on the release day...this is your first dance isn't it? I remember quite well what SC2's release was like...and from what I hear, Wow's as well. Heck there was an open beta week and the whole thing ended in a shitstorm of lags, errors and disconnects. Expecting to get in within the first week for an uninterrupted gaming session is sheer madness. Consider yourself lucky if you managed get a few hours into the game.

Secondly, we've seen what the game is like on beta. The beta which by the way was just the first hour of the game was already containing bugs and crashes on release, there was so much tweaking done based on feedback that it's unbelievable they thought it would just be a server test. BTW the server test which, expectedly, had zero to no impact on release since the game was as we know unplayable on Tuesday. Trust me when I say that many, if not most, of the things you will see on your first playthrough will be changed majorly within the next year, or indeed within the next few months. There will be bugs and crashes, undeserved deaths because of imba monster skills that the dev team didn't think through etc. The first few months of this game will be just another beta pretty much, much of the stuff will have to be fixed and rebalanced anyway. Needless to say, I don't recommend anyone playing hardcore until they test the game isn't full of bullshit like Iron Maiden curses and bugged Scarabs and Gloams.

And finally...as for the contest. This is the part which actually makes me angry. You get the chance to play the game for the first time, after so many years of waiting. What do you do with your playthrough? Will you race to the finish line like an idiot trying to be the first to rush through the game paying little heed to what's happening, or will you savour every moment, every bit of dialogue and lore, explore every skill, every nook and cranny, kill every monster and examine every piece of loot you find? Yeah.

And BTW, why am I so disinterested and cynical about the whole release thing? Cause my copy hasn't even arrived yet, I'll be reinstalling my whole computer and updating some hardware before I install the game anyway and because I have two state exams to prepare for. So though I could go play as soon as my game arrives, I'll be patient and start playing the game when the most blatant bugs and issues have been solved, balance has been fixed, and the game is indeed worthy of the expectations. I waited so many years with all you guys, I can wait a few months more. Oh and by the way, I hope you're all behind me if they start talking about nerfing Inferno difficulty to the ground so that casual players can beat it easily. There'll be riots in the streets I tell you.

Quote from Sabvre

Or you can stfu.... No one NEEDs more than 10 characters.

In fact the only things one needs is air, food, water and sleep. Does that mean anything beyond that should be severely restricted by law? Nopes, didn't think so. Yeah I don't need to have 10 characters at the same time, I could just delete each one after I'm done with it. Just as I'm sure you'd be more than willing to wipe out all your scores and KD ratios and achievements and replays in other games if the game forced you to. Does that make a good game or a convenient and user-friendly system? Fuck no! Even more apalling is the fact that the system introduced in D3 is an all around downgrade from what we had in D2 (always online what? character limit who?) If you really value your gaming time so much that, after spending countless hours beating the game with a character on Inferno and getting that great gear and titles and stuff, you'd be happy to just delete the characters you so invested into then I guess you have way too much free time on your hands. Not to mention the fact that you seem to have a particularly nasty case of lack of understanding for the needs of others. That you don't want or need something doesn't mean others don't. The fact that your imagination is too limited to comprehend such situations is your own problem, and renders your opinion worthless.

Quote from Benegesserit

Change skills/runes then swap gear. Besides muleing for extra space, or if you just have to have a female and male version of each class, why in the world do you think you have to create more characters? You can have 100+ characters builds and still only need up to 5 characters (1 for each class).

Oh yeah that's totally convenient. Just change up all your skills and traits, swap out all or most of your gear, resocket your items if you're keeping some, re-rune all your skills and change/respec your hireling and you're sorted. A real improvement from D2 singleplayer where I could store as many characters as I wanted as long as I had disc space. Now I would not only have to do all the abovementioned but also write down somewhere which items, runes, traits, hirelings and skills I'm supposed to use for each build that I'm using because there's no chance I'm gonna remember all of it for each build plus for PvP as well. Convenience galore right here. Not to mention of course the fact that what you're saying doesn't give me any replay value at all. There's a freaking universe of difference between playing the game once with a class and then end-game respeccing to see how other builds would work and actually playing the entire game, from level one all the way to level sixty with a whole different build. If you wanna play the game once go right ahead. I'd like to experience what it's like to play a build from start to finish and not respec only when I'm done or midway through or something. Plus more characters means more gold total among your characters which results in more opportunities to skill up artisans, craft, combine gems and socket items, salvage crap for materials etc. Need I continue? Them noobs man...sigh.

Quote from maka

You know what would be better? Not having that stupid 10-char limit. When I reach 10 chars (and want to create a new one), I have a really shitty decision to make: delete a character or play with high ping. Yay for blizzard indeed...

Oh don't get me wrong, the whole situation definitely doesn't give me a permanent boner, but at least it's better than what I thought it would be. Sucks either way, just the scope of suckage is different. As for the ping, we'll see how bad it is.

Holy! Yes, yes, yes! I guess I understand what they meant by 10 heroes per region. I totally thought one's copy of D3 will be region locked and you have to pay for another copy in order to get more than 10 characters. This way I can freaking have my 15+ character builds that I have already designed and not pay twice! Not being able to transfer items between all of them is a bit of a bummer but nothing compared to having to buy a new copy and not having the ability to transfer anyway. Yay, for blizzard! As for the people complaining about the RMAH...puh-lease, I thought you people were here because you want to enjoy the game, not make money out of it. You remind me of the KSers from DotA...they play the game for all the wrong reasons as well. And before you pull all that 'holier than thou' jazz, let me mention that I will not be using the AH at all, let alone the RMAH so yes, I am actually unaffected by all this moneygrubbing I'm seeing from people everywhere. Where has the good old gaming for fun gone I wonder.

What? What? WHAAAAT??????

Ok my thoughts on the armors after watching each vid twice:

Barb...oh my GAWD! Those have to be the most terrifying looking badass armors I have ever seen. Just brutal. Looking at all the spikes and the massiveness of all the armor parts, I really wouldn't want to meet these in a one on one fight. It would hurt just attacking these guys.

Witch Doctor's helmets rule. I actually didn't even pay much attention to the armor since the helmets are so dominant. Shame that the particle effect of the last set (smoke from the back) gets lost in the background a little bit. Have to say though, highly impractical, at least most of it. The headdresses may look terrifying and all but in close combat (which is in the end something you can't avoid) the helmets are so big that they would catch a lot of hits which were directed at the shoulder etc. And you don't want to be taking hits to your helmet all the time, you actually need to see and keep balance. But coolness comes before functionality in a caster class I guess. Which is just underlined by the fact that most of the WD armors grow more and more decorative while still, until the last couple of sets, the back, arms, legs and neck are left largely unprotected. But definitely very in-style and colorful which does give it a nice jungle/tribal feel.

Wizard is kinda meh. Though some later sets do look quite cool, mostly the sets are quite indistinct from one another, usually having the majority of features in common (lot of dangling clothes, 'shardy' or otherwise triangular features and segments) with only the color of the clothes and the pattern being slightly changed. Also a lot of the shoulder pad designs remind me of the D2 Sorceress even though they are supposed to be different classes and cultures. BTW the female wizard needs to do something about her body posture, looking at her makes me feel like she either has broken back or wants you to cut her stomach wide open. Don't have a problem with the male guy, though he doesn't look really very interested in being where he is XD

Male Demon Hunter needs to do some squats. How can you be quick and agile when your legs look like you didn't use them for a year? His body posture also seems kinda unhealthy. And let me get a confirmation on this. High heels? Am I seeing that right? I know we knew about this a long time but I'm just taking this opportunity to express my disbelief. I mean really? High heels are not suitable for walking on an even pavement, how the hell are you going to chase monsters with this in the countryside? Other than that the hoods are somewhat repetitive (there's like 5 hoods in various armor tiers and all look the same) so perhaps they should have taken a few pointers from Sacred hoods for the battlemage. Some of them looked cool. Helmets on the other hand look pretty damn great. Sometimes they went really over the top with them but at least the rest of the armor looks decent and not completely crazy. Angelic set is really beautiful.

And then there's Monk. First off those special 'helmets' of theirs (stars, circlets etc) need to be a more noticable than that because just looking at the video with a close-up of the characters I missed them completely on my first watching. In the game you'll be seeing it isometrically so you won't notice their presence at all. Not everything needs to be massive and over the top but if you have something on at least make it seen. Other than that...most of the monk armors really feel like they are mid-tier. Perhaps it's the colors used in the video but most of the browny/greeny stuff looks like it's a mid-tier armor even though it's supposed to be really high up there. The awesomeness factor kicks in really late with the Monk, much later than with e.g. the Barb. On one hand it's a good thing because then at least it's more realistic...monk needs to be mobile and agile, not heavy and clumsy. On the other hand, if you're a monk fan, you'll probably not be as visually impressive playing your character as you'd be with some of the other classes. But perhaps Barbarian just set the standart a little too high.

Oh, one more thing. Health of pets? Resists, chance to crit? Behaviour models (AI)? Overall info on pets, cause all we know is damage (which seems a surprisingly low percentage of your weapon damage to be honest). Is there an unsummon function?

I'd be curious about damage modifiers i.e. what all on items, passives etc modifies damage in what ways. In D2 the only damage that was modified was the damage you deal with your weapons. Now it seems spell damage is also affected by passive skills etc so I'd be curious how damage is handled in D3 right now.

Quote from Vagelis4VP

well, "Kashim" nailed it.... thats what i was thinking too...
yes, the increase difficulty in inferno does make sense... this is how it would "normal" be...
but it has its downside also...
now, all people who farm inferno, while it would be a challenge to get to the final fights... it will get repetitive after, because the farming will be focused only in acts III and iV... and thats not a good thing...
instead of having a variety of places to visit, fight, and farm, now u will be restricted only to the acts which give out the best loot...
the best option i see for this, and i agree with "Kashim" above, is to give u the option to make all acts even in inferno, after u beat it once...

I think you're wrong on this point. You have to see the other side of the coin. It's inferno. Stuff will be tougher than you...much much tougher and stronger than anything you ever met. You will never outlevel it. Thus even though you can get potentially the best stuff at the end of inferno, you will potentially be able to make two-three boss runs in Act I inferno by the time you are done with one run in Act IV inferno due to the fact it'll be so hard. The difference in item power won't be so dramatic by that point I think.

God. So there are tons of hardcore Diablo fans who are complaining about the game being too damn casual, with not having enough choice and everything being unlocked and chosen for you. Then there are obviously (looking at the questions) tons of casual players who want to make the game even more casual and completely ruin it for everybody else by removing unlocks later on in the game and squeezing everything into normal because THEY won't be playing the other 3/4ths of the game and expect to be given everything immediately when they want it. I'm really starting to emphatise with Blizzard if this is the kind of feedback they have to deal with on a daily basis.