I do agree that it is indeed a fact that the seasonal ladder is WAY more competitive with individuals and groups consistently pushing for the top rung. I also agree that if the NS ladder was as popular as the seasonal, theoretically the bar would be higher. You're right - 2 zdps at 5000 para and 2 dps sitting at 1500 wouldn't have the damage output for grifts at that level. Though it should go without saying that a group (like in my example) would probably not attempt any notable push with the aforementioned power imbalance. That being the case or not, I could have included the individuals paragon levels... all of which sitting around 3500.
Still, it is beside the point. I was simply providing evidence that you don't need 4k para to be pushing 115s and on the front page. You better believe it helps though .
And Autocthon, I consider it bad form to start posting random player's names but the group I was referring to has a 14:22 -116 clear and the first player of said group is listed at rank 20 4man NS.
What are you considering endless? the legendary-ancient step? The paragon system?
Game is stagnating, that is very hard to argue against.
Seasonal rewards aren't enough to keep the interest. And plenty of players (myself included) have recently finished their maximum stash tabs allowance, even after missing 1 or 2 seasons.
No matter that you like it or not, game needs to provide incentives to those who spend more time on it; this ain't a Call of Duty game - We don't need or want to be clones of each other with same stats; if you wanna compete, just play enough to compete. Big names always manage to make great results with lower paragon.
The intent of reducing power-creep has been one of the reasons for the streamers to leave for greener pastures. They want a game where knowing about the game and investing time has real benefits. And , nowadays, streamers-elite players-competition are a big point of attracting new players to a game.
Game doesn't need pointless power creep to be made more playable by the competitive crowd. It needs more competing options, less power gap, and ways to distinguish player ability that don't involve grinding up the stat ladder.
Nearly 100% of what gets a player on the top leaderboards is pure stat. The only bit of differentiation between players at the top by the end of a season is how lucky they were fishing for rifts. Power creep doesn't make knowledge of the game any more important, nor does it make time investment any more rewarding. It's just same shit different numbers.
If you want the game to hold the attention of streamers add something like PoE map system (which let a player progress through challenges). Add a balanced competitive mode (whole point of challenge rifts). Add more competing options and wildly crazy items. Don't just tack another zero onto the end of stat values and say "Now your time matters more".
Yea I am going to have to disagree with Autocthon as well in regards to leaderboards being stat based... However you are 100% accurate in that the top spots reflect your groups GRift fishing skills/patience. But even with an op map/mob combo, if the group doesn't have the right synergy or if someone isn't properly pulling their weight, 10/10 fail - so chalk it up as an XP run, It shows when a S9 4man w/ combined para 9169 can clear a 117 while a NS9 group in the top 5 sits at a 116 - even though combined their para is 13007. Same era, meta, and skils.
Thank you all for the feedback, opinions, and commentary - I'm glad to see that I am not alone!
Also, I would like to reiterate my sincere appreciation of Blizzard's continued QoL advancements and improvements for D3.
Maybe... Just maybe, this thread can catch some Blue attention and be considered . With all the legitimate GR Key classification attributes mentioned, even a counter-argument/solution/scenario would be great and I would hope they wouldn't see this thread as just another "give me more stash space!" demand.
The fact that you no longer interact with a GR key once you pick it up means it should be classified differently. Yes you can move them between your toons and the stash, and yes they can be sold to vendors for $1 a pop, but that is literally it. Not only are they immediately account bound on pick-up, you can't even drop them on the ground if you so desired. They are a currency without question. However, I think it would be much easier on the programmers if they either just increased the stack size or added them as a part of the mat storage.
I'm guessing that because they are an evolved form of Trial Keys and the resulting GR key from patch 2.1 (where it made sense to have the GRift levels available independently). they just didn't consider a rework of it's interaction.
I agree that increasing the stack limit would serve the same purpose. However I disagree that they fall under the same category as gems (but wouldn't hate it if they were out of my stash as well ). I could even argue that they are a crafting mat. It is a stretch but they do "craft" a GR (hmm shaky). I still consider them a currency though. Oh and I have well over 1k keys.
Since it's announcement, I have been looking forward to the Crafting Mat Storage feature coming in 2.5.0. As an excellent QoL improvement for us hoarders, I was sad to see all my Greater Rift keys still stacked up in rows in my stash. I know this isn't a real issue for a lot of players, specifically those who actually need to farm keys to keep up the GR grind but not all of us are that key starved. Considering the fact that once you pickup a GR key it never has to be physically addressed again, I would have assumed that they would have made it into the new storage system. That being said, they are actually more of a currency than anything so it would make sense to me if they were stored like gold or blood shards.
So I ask, any chance of this being included? Either way, thanks for the freed up space!
Ah I considered recording the harmony for this but you recorded the melody as a baritone and I can't go tenor without hurting myself or others. Anywho, Very nicely done sir!
I gotcha. I just feel like adding a lower bonus for a non ancient is a little redundant since the only thing that makes LoN endgame is the intended bonus. Right?
I don't quite understand the problem. LoN's 2 piece set bonus gives 100% extra damage for every ancient item equipped. I understand people want free damage buffs but wearing 4 piece Inna's and 2 piece SotE won't ever give you the max set bonus for either... It won't even give you a percent of the 6 bonus. It will however give you a 2 and 4 bonus. Just like LoN will buff your damage by 400% by only equipping 4 ancients.
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I do agree that it is indeed a fact that the seasonal ladder is WAY more competitive with individuals and groups consistently pushing for the top rung. I also agree that if the NS ladder was as popular as the seasonal, theoretically the bar would be higher. You're right - 2 zdps at 5000 para and 2 dps sitting at 1500 wouldn't have the damage output for grifts at that level. Though it should go without saying that a group (like in my example) would probably not attempt any notable push with the aforementioned power imbalance. That being the case or not, I could have included the individuals paragon levels... all of which sitting around 3500.
Still, it is beside the point. I was simply providing evidence that you don't need 4k para to be pushing 115s and on the front page. You better believe it helps though
.
And Autocthon, I consider it bad form to start posting random player's names but the group I was referring to has a 14:22 -116 clear and the first player of said group is listed at rank 20 4man NS.
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Ah, thank you for the tip TrueColdkil! Much appreciated
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Thank you all for the feedback, opinions, and commentary - I'm glad to see that I am not alone!
Also, I would like to reiterate my sincere appreciation of Blizzard's continued QoL advancements and improvements for D3.
Maybe... Just maybe, this thread can catch some Blue attention and be considered
. With all the legitimate GR Key classification attributes mentioned, even a counter-argument/solution/scenario would be great and I would hope they wouldn't see this thread as just another "give me more stash space!" demand.
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The fact that you no longer interact with a GR key once you pick it up means it should be classified differently. Yes you can move them between your toons and the stash, and yes they can be sold to vendors for $1 a pop, but that is literally it. Not only are they immediately account bound on pick-up, you can't even drop them on the ground if you so desired. They are a currency without question. However, I think it would be much easier on the programmers if they either just increased the stack size or added them as a part of the mat storage.
I'm guessing that because they are an evolved form of Trial Keys and the resulting GR key from patch 2.1 (where it made sense to have the GRift levels available independently). they just didn't consider a rework of it's interaction.
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I agree that increasing the stack limit would serve the same purpose. However I disagree that they fall under the same category as gems (but wouldn't hate it if they were out of my stash as well
). I could even argue that they are a crafting mat. It is a stretch but they do "craft" a GR (hmm shaky). I still consider them a currency though. Oh and I have well over 1k keys.
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Evening!
Since it's announcement, I have been looking forward to the Crafting Mat Storage feature coming in 2.5.0. As an excellent QoL improvement for us hoarders, I was sad to see all my Greater Rift keys still stacked up in rows in my stash. I know this isn't a real issue for a lot of players, specifically those who actually need to farm keys to keep up the GR grind but not all of us are that key starved. Considering the fact that once you pickup a GR key it never has to be physically addressed again, I would have assumed that they would have made it into the new storage system. That being said, they are actually more of a currency than anything so it would make sense to me if they were stored like gold or blood shards.
So I ask, any chance of this being included? Either way, thanks for the freed up space!
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I am DLing patch as we speak, PC,NA
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Ah I considered recording the harmony for this but you recorded the melody as a baritone and I can't go tenor without hurting myself or others. Anywho, Very nicely done sir!
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Same issue. A Blizzard post from 8 minutes ago...
"We're currently investigating an issue affecting our authentication servers, which may result in failed or slow login attempts."
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I gotcha. I just feel like adding a lower bonus for a non ancient is a little redundant since the only thing that makes LoN endgame is the intended bonus. Right?
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I don't quite understand the problem. LoN's 2 piece set bonus gives 100% extra damage for every ancient item equipped. I understand people want free damage buffs but wearing 4 piece Inna's and 2 piece SotE won't ever give you the max set bonus for either... It won't even give you a percent of the 6 bonus. It will however give you a 2 and 4 bonus. Just like LoN will buff your damage by 400% by only equipping 4 ancients.