Kinda pathetic. You fail to make any point and all you do is attempt to bash PvP which is dominant over your beloved PvM. It's ok when Diablo 3's community turns into Diablo 1 and 2's community and you are exiled from it cause you are to carebear you let me know all about that great PvM.
Anyday you feel that you can take any of your beloved SC or WC or WoW top tier buddies into Diablo and prove to me or anyone how simple it is you let me know. USEAST *VladDracul
For the record, Starcraft and Warcraft 3 are both almost exclusively PvP games. WoW has also garnered international acclaim in the PvP tournament scene. Mabe, people just dont care about D2 pvp because the other 3 are better? You should check out Occam's Razor?
I like PvP in blizzard games just as much as I like PvM/E. I have spent time with D2 pvp, i just simply didn't like it. You seem to be under the false assumption (shocker) that I somehow hate PvP because I don't agree with your psychotic and apocalyptic opinions of D2 and D3 design.
You misconstrue my posts as an attack on PvP, then proceed to rebirth the ancient troll of "PvM is better than PvP is better than PvE is better than PvP". This is a pointless and irrelevant troll and if you need to be told that you're just insulting yourself.
Is this all you can do? Rage at other ppl and attempt to troll them? Once again i suggest you attempt to stem the flood of ignorance you spew forth. You have made so many inaccurate and exaggerated assertions in your previous posts (yes i read the whole thread) it is impossible to attribute even one shred of credence to your views. In the future if you wish to voice concerns you should attempt to NOT misrepresent every point you use to make your "argument". The simple reality is that Blizzard is the best at what they do, and EVERYONE on this forum that is disagreeing with you are not stupid and terrible.
FaX R GuD!
Ignorant:
b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
A) Shouldn't have to wait for a beta to determine how the design is going. When the devs can actually put out a good reason and answer for switching something that works with a system that has been untested then I will give them some credit.
You're "determination" is wholly irrelevant and inaccurate. You know very little about what the D3 team is working on. You should refrain from making absolute statements regarding a yet uncertain product.
They aren't accountable to you before they decide to make any change in the game. D3 is a new game and it will have new features.
Quote from "vladdracul" »
Sure I can and quite easily. When SC2 was in the phases that D3 is in now were they replacing systems in SC1 and giving no good reasons why other then the fact they feel their fans are rejects or that they themselves are retarded? Were they adding unicorns onto marines or turning Hydras into pink dinosaurs?
Also since Diablo is such a single player game you know why was it first to use Bnet? Why do they revolve and design so heavily onto this trading thing I hear about. What do most players who get Diablo do? Do they play single player or do they go online? Also co-op in Diablo is meaningless and dumb, look at the design here...your character is practically a god and you kill multiple enemies at once in seconds...now let's put 2-3 more of you in there...
Beloved trading and co-op in Diablo has had about as much design as PvP has yet PvP has strived and evolved constantly and still grows to this day, PvM died off and stopped evolving years ago.
Question for you, Do you see any sponsored Diablo 2 LoD pvp tournaments being streamed online? Where major sponsors reserve a convention center and hold extravagant tournaments with tens of thousands of dollars in prizes for winners? The answer is no. VERY few ppl are interested in this "top tier" pvp you talk about in Diablo compared to PvE/M Yet you have the National sport of Korea as competitive Starcraft; and massive Audiences for competitive WoW. Hell even Warcraft 3 has (or had) a professional competitive scene. Which Blizzard game is missing at the Blizzcon feature tournaments? Do you know?
The Diablo series was always first and foremost a PvE/M game. Do you really not understand that? Do you truly not realize that your EXTREME views represent such a small portion of Diablo fans?
Yet again you make unsubstantiated statements about things you know nothing about. When SC2 was in development phases, they changed and added so many different features it was mind boggling. One of which was MBS (multiple building select) which made it less APM intensive to macro your army. A change which made alot of "elitist" players angry as it would allow more casual players to play at a higher level.
They also excluded many of the popular SC2 units i.e.: No more Lurkers, Scourge, Medics, Reavers, Vultures etc. The graphics and art arguments you make have no bearing in SC2 either. The whole spectrum of art is radically changed. During the development process they released so many updated art changes it was hard to keep track of. They didnt even attempt to stay true to SC1 art styles. Except in a few very rare cases where a unit was brought back. You really need to stop making ignorant statements about Unicorns and Rainbows. Diablo 3 will not be simply boring and varied shades of grey. It will have new and improved graphics and art styles. This is a NEW game.
Quote from "vladdracul" »
Depends on what you are doing in Diablo, killing monsters takes little to no skill or effort, Top tier PvP takes more skill then anything WoW could ever come up with and is only rivaled by Starcraft.
Considering I have played the game already no.
Now I don't play to grieve or make people angry, I play to have fun and it just happens to be that alot of dumb people play online games...damn who would of thought. When a dumb person talks smack, they deserve to be put in place and thus thats where I do my thing which I guess you would call grieve them or whatever but the bottom line is, don't be a bitch and you don't get hurt.
Man, its the same in ANY VIDEO game. No different in your precious Diablo 2. Computer AI is always prescripted and repetitive. It is the way it will be until someone goes Terminator style and develops Self-aware AI.
Your precious "top tier" Diablo pvp "rivals" Starcraft huh? Lol. I mean c'mon man....dont be ignorant. You have like a right click/left click, a few special abilities, and you spam potions. Thats it. Having played all 4 Blizzard games I can safely say that Warcraft, WoW, and Starcraft all raise the skill bar much higher than Diablo as far as Keyboard Operation/APM.
A cursory and totally unbiased examination of the 4 games UI's would arrive at the conclusion that Diablo is the simplest. Fortunately that terrible terrible D3 design team is improving the UI as well. lulz
You can refuse to acknowledge these facts as much as you want. But Diablo 2 pvp was never a focus of Diablo design. It was a side feature that served its purpose. Blizzard has already stated many times Diablo 3 will be first and foremost a Co-op/single player game. They are not trying to create a Diablo 3 E-sport.
I'm sure that I am only reiterating what has been said many times in the last 3 years by many other people. Which is why this will be my LAST attempt to help you understand reality. We all are painfully aware you love your Diablo pvp. That's great, but you will get nowhere with these forum threads. You represent a minute, immature, and angry percentage of the Diablo universe. Blizzard will continue to develop a great game and will continue to disregard your raging.
Mabe switch to one of the established Blizzard E-sports in an effort to preserve your health and compensate for your shortcomings. Diablo 3 will never be the game you envision.
As of the first week of Beta in SC2, there is no way to switch teams via a built in diplomacy option. Your units can execute an "Attack Ground/Here/Building" command which does not prevent you from destroying your own or your allies units. So theoretically, you could join a 2v2 or 3v3 and then turn on your allies. Although it would only serve to weaken your team and you would most likely eventually lose the game.
There is FFA (Free for All) where 4 players fight each other until one eventually triumphs. So again, theoretically you could make secret alliances in a FFA to squash out the other 2 or 3 players. But in the end, only one person can win so you either eliminate your "allies" or you lose.
Im not sure why you would want to be able to legitimately "switch" teams in the middle of a 2v2 or 3v3. This should especially not be allowed in Ranked ladder matches. As im sure there are very few ppl out there who would enjoy losing by being turned on by their Allies.
If all you are interested in is grieving others like an insecure, immature brat....then you can effectively accomplish that by scouting in a FFA (which is not ranked), and when you see another player attacking one person, you could gang up on the defender and eliminate them.
As for D3, in my opinion you should chill out and at least wait for the beta of the game to be released (if there is one), or mostly completed game/mechanics information to be released before you sacrifice years off your life by damaging your heart with such intense hatred for the D3 design team.
I follow Blizz development very carefully, and have read all I can and learned all I can about their upcoming games. And i still no very little or nothing about many of the D3 mechanics. There are two major discrepancies in your attempt to compare SC2 design team to D3 design team.
1) SC2 is in beta now about to be released, we know almost everything there is to know about the majority of the game at this point. The same is not true for D3 so you cannot point to SC2 as an example of good design and D3 as an example of failure
2) SC2 is predominantly focused on Online Multiplayer. Yes there is a Single player Campaign. But the meat of the Starcraft series is in Competitive Online Multiplayer. Diablo 3 is predominantly a Co-op/Single player game. PvP was included as a minor feature. But as others have said it was never the focus of the previous diablo's. Considering that "Grieving" is the opposite of "Co-Operation" and that Blizzard has strongly stated they intend D3 to be heavily focused on "Co-op". It is also not accurate to point to SC2 as an example of "grieving/competitive/pvp" success while trashing D3.
There is another issue that is somewhat related to this discussion. In competitive Starcraft, good players often operate at an average of 200-300+ Actions per minute (APM). If you dont fully appreciate just how fast this is, suffice it to say That your untrained mind would not be able to even comprehend what is happening from their perspective.
Diablo 3 on the other hand, well, there just isnt any comparison. So when you complain about blizzard removing weapon swap and taking away a tool that "skilled players" use to seperate themselves from baddies, you should know that it really just doesn't matter in terms of gameplay potential. The threshold for D3 skilled play will be far far lower than anything capable by top tier Starcrafters in terms of hotkey pressing, clicking, or APM. This isn't to say that Starcraft is better than D3 or any E-peen kind of thing, but just to illustrate that D3 does not set the bar for keyboard operation ability. Good players will still be good players and likewise bad players will still be bad players with or without a weapon switching hotkey. I am satisfied that the D3 design team has good enough reasons to get rid of such a (in reality immaterial) mechanic.
Although I doubt you will take any of the advice in this thread. Because from your own admissions the only reason you play games is to grieve and make others angry, so it logically follows that you would freak out, overreact, exaggerate, and troll the game based on the like 10 mins of demo footage we have so far.
Aktzini
Edit: Judging from your attitude in this thread. I wouldn't hold out much hope that Blizzard will spend much effort designing Diablo 3 to fit your view. Things can be competitive, difficult, and even "hardcore" WITHOUT inciting rabid hatred of your fellow players and a burning desire to destroy everyone else's fun. Just say'in
0
For the record, Starcraft and Warcraft 3 are both almost exclusively PvP games. WoW has also garnered international acclaim in the PvP tournament scene. Mabe, people just dont care about D2 pvp because the other 3 are better? You should check out Occam's Razor?
I like PvP in blizzard games just as much as I like PvM/E. I have spent time with D2 pvp, i just simply didn't like it. You seem to be under the false assumption (shocker) that I somehow hate PvP because I don't agree with your psychotic and apocalyptic opinions of D2 and D3 design.
You misconstrue my posts as an attack on PvP, then proceed to rebirth the ancient troll of "PvM is better than PvP is better than PvE is better than PvP". This is a pointless and irrelevant troll and if you need to be told that you're just insulting yourself.
Is this all you can do? Rage at other ppl and attempt to troll them? Once again i suggest you attempt to stem the flood of ignorance you spew forth. You have made so many inaccurate and exaggerated assertions in your previous posts (yes i read the whole thread) it is impossible to attribute even one shred of credence to your views. In the future if you wish to voice concerns you should attempt to NOT misrepresent every point you use to make your "argument". The simple reality is that Blizzard is the best at what they do, and EVERYONE on this forum that is disagreeing with you are not stupid and terrible.
FaX R GuD!
Ignorant:
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
0
You're "determination" is wholly irrelevant and inaccurate. You know very little about what the D3 team is working on. You should refrain from making absolute statements regarding a yet uncertain product.
They aren't accountable to you before they decide to make any change in the game. D3 is a new game and it will have new features.
Question for you, Do you see any sponsored Diablo 2 LoD pvp tournaments being streamed online? Where major sponsors reserve a convention center and hold extravagant tournaments with tens of thousands of dollars in prizes for winners? The answer is no. VERY few ppl are interested in this "top tier" pvp you talk about in Diablo compared to PvE/M Yet you have the National sport of Korea as competitive Starcraft; and massive Audiences for competitive WoW. Hell even Warcraft 3 has (or had) a professional competitive scene. Which Blizzard game is missing at the Blizzcon feature tournaments? Do you know?
The Diablo series was always first and foremost a PvE/M game. Do you really not understand that? Do you truly not realize that your EXTREME views represent such a small portion of Diablo fans?
Yet again you make unsubstantiated statements about things you know nothing about. When SC2 was in development phases, they changed and added so many different features it was mind boggling. One of which was MBS (multiple building select) which made it less APM intensive to macro your army. A change which made alot of "elitist" players angry as it would allow more casual players to play at a higher level.
They also excluded many of the popular SC2 units i.e.: No more Lurkers, Scourge, Medics, Reavers, Vultures etc. The graphics and art arguments you make have no bearing in SC2 either. The whole spectrum of art is radically changed. During the development process they released so many updated art changes it was hard to keep track of. They didnt even attempt to stay true to SC1 art styles. Except in a few very rare cases where a unit was brought back. You really need to stop making ignorant statements about Unicorns and Rainbows. Diablo 3 will not be simply boring and varied shades of grey. It will have new and improved graphics and art styles. This is a NEW game.
Man, its the same in ANY VIDEO game. No different in your precious Diablo 2. Computer AI is always prescripted and repetitive. It is the way it will be until someone goes Terminator style and develops Self-aware AI.
Your precious "top tier" Diablo pvp "rivals" Starcraft huh? Lol. I mean c'mon man....dont be ignorant. You have like a right click/left click, a few special abilities, and you spam potions. Thats it. Having played all 4 Blizzard games I can safely say that Warcraft, WoW, and Starcraft all raise the skill bar much higher than Diablo as far as Keyboard Operation/APM.
A cursory and totally unbiased examination of the 4 games UI's would arrive at the conclusion that Diablo is the simplest. Fortunately that terrible terrible D3 design team is improving the UI as well. lulz
You can refuse to acknowledge these facts as much as you want. But Diablo 2 pvp was never a focus of Diablo design. It was a side feature that served its purpose. Blizzard has already stated many times Diablo 3 will be first and foremost a Co-op/single player game. They are not trying to create a Diablo 3 E-sport.
I'm sure that I am only reiterating what has been said many times in the last 3 years by many other people. Which is why this will be my LAST attempt to help you understand reality. We all are painfully aware you love your Diablo pvp. That's great, but you will get nowhere with these forum threads. You represent a minute, immature, and angry percentage of the Diablo universe. Blizzard will continue to develop a great game and will continue to disregard your raging.
Mabe switch to one of the established Blizzard E-sports in an effort to preserve your health and compensate for your shortcomings. Diablo 3 will never be the game you envision.
Aktzini
0
There is FFA (Free for All) where 4 players fight each other until one eventually triumphs. So again, theoretically you could make secret alliances in a FFA to squash out the other 2 or 3 players. But in the end, only one person can win so you either eliminate your "allies" or you lose.
Im not sure why you would want to be able to legitimately "switch" teams in the middle of a 2v2 or 3v3. This should especially not be allowed in Ranked ladder matches. As im sure there are very few ppl out there who would enjoy losing by being turned on by their Allies.
If all you are interested in is grieving others like an insecure, immature brat....then you can effectively accomplish that by scouting in a FFA (which is not ranked), and when you see another player attacking one person, you could gang up on the defender and eliminate them.
As for D3, in my opinion you should chill out and at least wait for the beta of the game to be released (if there is one), or mostly completed game/mechanics information to be released before you sacrifice years off your life by damaging your heart with such intense hatred for the D3 design team.
I follow Blizz development very carefully, and have read all I can and learned all I can about their upcoming games. And i still no very little or nothing about many of the D3 mechanics. There are two major discrepancies in your attempt to compare SC2 design team to D3 design team.
1) SC2 is in beta now about to be released, we know almost everything there is to know about the majority of the game at this point. The same is not true for D3 so you cannot point to SC2 as an example of good design and D3 as an example of failure
2) SC2 is predominantly focused on Online Multiplayer. Yes there is a Single player Campaign. But the meat of the Starcraft series is in Competitive Online Multiplayer. Diablo 3 is predominantly a Co-op/Single player game. PvP was included as a minor feature. But as others have said it was never the focus of the previous diablo's. Considering that "Grieving" is the opposite of "Co-Operation" and that Blizzard has strongly stated they intend D3 to be heavily focused on "Co-op". It is also not accurate to point to SC2 as an example of "grieving/competitive/pvp" success while trashing D3.
There is another issue that is somewhat related to this discussion. In competitive Starcraft, good players often operate at an average of 200-300+ Actions per minute (APM). If you dont fully appreciate just how fast this is, suffice it to say That your untrained mind would not be able to even comprehend what is happening from their perspective.
Diablo 3 on the other hand, well, there just isnt any comparison. So when you complain about blizzard removing weapon swap and taking away a tool that "skilled players" use to seperate themselves from baddies, you should know that it really just doesn't matter in terms of gameplay potential. The threshold for D3 skilled play will be far far lower than anything capable by top tier Starcrafters in terms of hotkey pressing, clicking, or APM. This isn't to say that Starcraft is better than D3 or any E-peen kind of thing, but just to illustrate that D3 does not set the bar for keyboard operation ability. Good players will still be good players and likewise bad players will still be bad players with or without a weapon switching hotkey. I am satisfied that the D3 design team has good enough reasons to get rid of such a (in reality immaterial) mechanic.
Although I doubt you will take any of the advice in this thread. Because from your own admissions the only reason you play games is to grieve and make others angry, so it logically follows that you would freak out, overreact, exaggerate, and troll the game based on the like 10 mins of demo footage we have so far.
Aktzini
Edit: Judging from your attitude in this thread. I wouldn't hold out much hope that Blizzard will spend much effort designing Diablo 3 to fit your view. Things can be competitive, difficult, and even "hardcore" WITHOUT inciting rabid hatred of your fellow players and a burning desire to destroy everyone else's fun. Just say'in