Then we're talking about a system identical to the current system
Exactly.
except you have no control at all
See now you are also falling for the "illusion" of control. You want to be able to control it?
Too bad it all comes down to luck wouldn't you say?
cannot choose where the rune goes
Vs you can choose where it goes but cannot choose what it will be? [Edit] Let me eleborate, and I hope you will at least agree with me on this point: It's easier to accept a bad fate when you don't percieve to have had control over the outcome in the fist place, than to accept it if you do percieve to have had some control/influence over.
What that means is that no one's trying to accomplish anything
Don't agree there. You're still hunting for that specific rune aren't you?
it would be more or less that runes are no more exciting to find than an unidentified wand or staff, or a ring or amulet.
Except if they make the drop chance scale well.
If the drop chance of a lvl 7 rune is really low then if you find one it would be just as exciting as finding a really rare piece of armor.
Wake up, brother. If people realistically would not be excited about a chance at glory just because the odds were against them, no one would do ANYTHING great. That's life. That's psychology. And that's what a rewarding experience means to me. People get awards for beating the odds with their own dedication. A spoonful of real grit and challenge in this game in return for satisfying rewards may indeed make frustration run higher in many cases, but it's what makes people feel good about stuff in ALL cases when they succeed. Because here's the clincher: if the reward of a level 7 rune isn't worth this system, no one will bother spending any real time to get them.
Consider the following "system":
When you kill a monster and a rune drops, as it spawns it automatically "attunes" itself to a random skill of yours. You pick it up and identify it (just like any rare item) to find out what its properties are.
Just think about it for a sec...
(Edit: changed sentence a bit to make it more clear)
I also believe that for a game of chance like this system is, that it will not only be very frustrating to "lose," but very, VERY satisfying to win. When it comes to control, all you can do is know what skills you want and dedicate yourself to getting the best. With runes, it is a game of chance where the odds are knowable and playable, and it should not seem like a horrifying guessing game to everybody.
Yeah I get what you're saying and you almost convince me.
It's just a bit hard to stomach the idea of having to play an additional game of chance on an item that you've been grinding for, especially when it creates the illusion that you have "choice" in the outcome. It will just cause way more "If only..." moments which does not make for a rewarding experience.
The fact that you're "choice" will influence the outcome will just give most people a false sense of hope.
And for what? Why do that? (retorical)
Yeah sure I can maybe change my mindset about it and when a lvl 7 rune drops I'll keep myself from getting excited about it, coz hey man, you just shouldn't keep your hopes up. But isn't that kindof contradicting to why people want to play the game in the first place, to get excited about loot?
I can think of plenty of reasons why they are testing this idea since it does solve a lot of potential problems and I'll even go as far as admitting that it does add some dynamic depth to it (and possibly promote experimenting).
I'm also not for the idea of being able to re-roll the rune, which a lot of people are asking for, since that will basically contradict the entire reason it's blank in the first place.
BUT I just can't help feeling that it's not the best idea yet.
Mainly because I think that successfully locking in high-level runes should be a challenge, given that it means the "completion" of a build as far as skills go.
Agreed!
Another reason is that I think that it will really add some dynamic decision making
I don't see where the "decision making" part is though. In reality you will never know what the outcome will be until you "decide" (read gamble) on a skill to place it in.
The way I see it, what's going to make you pick between skill X and skill Y when trying to place a blank rune is which one is doing its job either most efficiently or least efficiently.
I think that's exactly where the difference of opinions are rooted.
To you runes will beef up any skill in a positive way, no matter what rune it turns out to be, and you won't mind that it can potentially completely change how that skill works.
In other words the "risk" factor is lessened to a degree for you.
I don't completely agree though.
When I think "build", I include play style which relies heavily on how skill mechanics work. Therefore since runes can change skill mechanics rather drastically you can end up "breaking" your build depending on what runes you are using.
So for me it's not a constant upgrade process no matter what rune I find. I might even turn out leave some skills vanilla just because their vanilla mechanic works the best for my build (doubt it though).
Frustration? Yeah, it'll be there. In my eyes, no more frustrating than identifying a piece of armor that you KNOW is the armor type of the particular piece you've been looking for, but it turns out not to be what you need.
A valid point, but not quite the same.
Imagine finding a end-game set item (unidentified). You have a chance to "attune" it to be a specific part of the set (hands/feet/chest) of which you already have the head and legs but to do this you need to choose a number between 1 and 5. You choose 3. Turns out the item attunes to another gear set instead of yours. That sucks!
My point is that leaving the chance to get it just right in the hands of the player also brings in the chance for them to get really pissed off if they make a "mistake".
I feel that needs to be avoided.
Rather make the drop chance less, I don't care, just don't give me the illusion of control.
On that note, though, it's really a matter of opinion. Some people will be like me and not mind the idea of the best of the best being basically tear-jerkingly hard to find. Some people like you and those I've been debating with in this thread would like to have just a little more control over the situation. I think in the end, we'll all be happy with the game no matter what.
Exactly. These are all mostly based off personal opinions and expectations. I don't mind having to grind till my mouse leaves a hole on my table, I just don't like the potential "if only" factor.
In the end though we can definitely agree that we'll be happy with it no matter what.
If they keep it how it is then so be it. I trust that Blizz would know best and it might not even turn out to be so bad as I think.
So casual gamers have a casual level of gear and runes, save they should go to the AH for assistance. Ain't nothin' wrong with that. The only thing Blizzard HAS to give to the casual fanbase is the ability to beat the game and have fun; nothing more.
I partially agree with what you are getting at, but I still feel that the added randomness might be a bit overkill.
What exactly do you feel makes the current Rune system better than having Runes drop with a set color, Random affix but unatuned to a skill?
Here is an example of the main problem I have with the current system:
You find a lvl 7 rune.
For your build you know that a Blue lvl 7 rune would really compliment skill X and a Yellow lvl 7 rune would really compliment skill y.
Which skill do you gamble on?
Now say you attune it to skill x and it turns out to be a yellow, would it not frustrate you the slightest bit? I know I would personally bang my head on my keyboard wishing I had rather tried skill y.
I feel this dynamic detracts from the experience of random loot instead of adding to it.
Yes there is a 1 in 5 chance that you'd get it right for your one skill, but considering you have more than one skill, your chances of success are no longer 1 in 5.
In fact I predict that this system would result in more frustration than success and in the end most people would feel forced to check the auction house just to finally get that damn rune.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of an AH and I love the randomness of Diablo, I just feel that this is slightly overkill and that it would be more "fun" and "rewarding" to find an unatuned red lvl 7 rune which you won't even use, than to get your hopes up on a possible gamble with a blank unatuned rune. The feeling of "if only i had put it in skill y" is not rewarding at all and if I were a developer I'd aim to keep it far away from any system, especially if it will happen quite often when measured by the current chances.
I personally hope it is something that Blizz will seriously consider before finalizing the rune system.
Q: Will you read tactics/hints/item databases from Wiki etc. for the first/2nd playthrough or you avoid that as it can spoil a lot?
A: I'll hold out as long as I can, until I inevitably get stuck or screw up my char in some interesting way. I hate accidentally reading spoilers. I'd like to discover most of the content and tactics myself.
Jackzor had an interesting question a few posts back which didn't get answered which I'm also kindof curious about:
The bright Purple Pony sends a colorful rainbow your way which burns out your eyes and makes your hero screem in agony "Too many bright colors!! Arrgh!".
The Pony then hugs you lovingly and makes you die of humiliation infront of your friends.
0
See now you are also falling for the "illusion" of control. You want to be able to control it?
Too bad it all comes down to luck wouldn't you say?
Vs you can choose where it goes but cannot choose what it will be?
[Edit] Let me eleborate, and I hope you will at least agree with me on this point: It's easier to accept a bad fate when you don't percieve to have had control over the outcome in the fist place, than to accept it if you do percieve to have had some control/influence over.
Don't agree there. You're still hunting for that specific rune aren't you?
Except if they make the drop chance scale well.
If the drop chance of a lvl 7 rune is really low then if you find one it would be just as exciting as finding a really rare piece of armor.
0
Consider the following "system":
When you kill a monster and a rune drops, as it spawns it automatically "attunes" itself to a random skill of yours. You pick it up and identify it (just like any rare item) to find out what its properties are.
Just think about it for a sec...
(Edit: changed sentence a bit to make it more clear)
0
I had the same thing.
It's because you're trying to log into US site with your EU account.
Go to http://EU.battle.net/d3/en/ instead.
Still can't post there yet though which kinda sucks.
0
It's coz you're trying to log in to the US site using your EU account.
Go to http://EU.battle.net/d3/en/ for the EU site.
Can't post in forums there yet though, which kinda sucks...
0
Yeah I get what you're saying and you almost convince me.
It's just a bit hard to stomach the idea of having to play an additional game of chance on an item that you've been grinding for, especially when it creates the illusion that you have "choice" in the outcome. It will just cause way more "If only..." moments which does not make for a rewarding experience.
The fact that you're "choice" will influence the outcome will just give most people a false sense of hope.
And for what? Why do that? (retorical)
Yeah sure I can maybe change my mindset about it and when a lvl 7 rune drops I'll keep myself from getting excited about it, coz hey man, you just shouldn't keep your hopes up. But isn't that kindof contradicting to why people want to play the game in the first place, to get excited about loot?
I can think of plenty of reasons why they are testing this idea since it does solve a lot of potential problems and I'll even go as far as admitting that it does add some dynamic depth to it (and possibly promote experimenting).
I'm also not for the idea of being able to re-roll the rune, which a lot of people are asking for, since that will basically contradict the entire reason it's blank in the first place.
BUT I just can't help feeling that it's not the best idea yet.
1
Agreed!
I don't see where the "decision making" part is though. In reality you will never know what the outcome will be until you "decide" (read gamble) on a skill to place it in.
I think that's exactly where the difference of opinions are rooted.
To you runes will beef up any skill in a positive way, no matter what rune it turns out to be, and you won't mind that it can potentially completely change how that skill works.
In other words the "risk" factor is lessened to a degree for you.
I don't completely agree though.
When I think "build", I include play style which relies heavily on how skill mechanics work. Therefore since runes can change skill mechanics rather drastically you can end up "breaking" your build depending on what runes you are using.
So for me it's not a constant upgrade process no matter what rune I find. I might even turn out leave some skills vanilla just because their vanilla mechanic works the best for my build (doubt it though).
A valid point, but not quite the same.
Imagine finding a end-game set item (unidentified). You have a chance to "attune" it to be a specific part of the set (hands/feet/chest) of which you already have the head and legs but to do this you need to choose a number between 1 and 5. You choose 3. Turns out the item attunes to another gear set instead of yours. That sucks!
My point is that leaving the chance to get it just right in the hands of the player also brings in the chance for them to get really pissed off if they make a "mistake".
I feel that needs to be avoided.
Rather make the drop chance less, I don't care, just don't give me the illusion of control.
Exactly. These are all mostly based off personal opinions and expectations. I don't mind having to grind till my mouse leaves a hole on my table, I just don't like the potential "if only" factor.
In the end though we can definitely agree that we'll be happy with it no matter what.
If they keep it how it is then so be it. I trust that Blizz would know best and it might not even turn out to be so bad as I think.
0
A: I wouldn't say I hate any class, but the one I like the least is the DH.
The teaser video seemed a bit... cheasy..
That's just me though.
Q: Do you have faith in the current Rune system, or would you have it changed back (blank vs colored)?
0
I partially agree with what you are getting at, but I still feel that the added randomness might be a bit overkill.
What exactly do you feel makes the current Rune system better than having Runes drop with a set color, Random affix but unatuned to a skill?
Here is an example of the main problem I have with the current system:
You find a lvl 7 rune.
For your build you know that a Blue lvl 7 rune would really compliment skill X and a Yellow lvl 7 rune would really compliment skill y.
Which skill do you gamble on?
Now say you attune it to skill x and it turns out to be a yellow, would it not frustrate you the slightest bit? I know I would personally bang my head on my keyboard wishing I had rather tried skill y.
I feel this dynamic detracts from the experience of random loot instead of adding to it.
Yes there is a 1 in 5 chance that you'd get it right for your one skill, but considering you have more than one skill, your chances of success are no longer 1 in 5.
In fact I predict that this system would result in more frustration than success and in the end most people would feel forced to check the auction house just to finally get that damn rune.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of an AH and I love the randomness of Diablo, I just feel that this is slightly overkill and that it would be more "fun" and "rewarding" to find an unatuned red lvl 7 rune which you won't even use, than to get your hopes up on a possible gamble with a blank unatuned rune.
The feeling of "if only i had put it in skill y" is not rewarding at all and if I were a developer I'd aim to keep it far away from any system, especially if it will happen quite often when measured by the current chances.
I personally hope it is something that Blizz will seriously consider before finalizing the rune system.
0
A: Oh hell yes!
Q:Do you feel that artisan leveling adds any real value/depth/interest to the game?
0
A: I'll hold out as long as I can, until I inevitably get stuck or screw up my char in some interesting way. I hate accidentally reading spoilers. I'd like to discover most of the content and tactics myself.
Jackzor had an interesting question a few posts back which didn't get answered which I'm also kindof curious about:
Q:
0
0
The bright Purple Pony sends a colorful rainbow your way which burns out your eyes and makes your hero screem in agony "Too many bright colors!! Arrgh!".
The Pony then hugs you lovingly and makes you die of humiliation infront of your friends.