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Let me get this straight:

A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?

Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?

Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.

It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.

I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.

I agree with you (and Lethal_weapon's comment - second posts below yours). Not knowing the type of rune you will get is just too punishing when you don't get the one you were looking for.

On another note, IF they make the rune type unknown it would be pointless to give the ability to the Mystic to wipe it. If that was the case, you would only need gold to get the rune you want, since after you get a rank 7 rune, you can just keep wiping it and "attuning" it again until you get the one you want. If they do this "new" system, it shouldn't let you wipe it. Otherwise it will pretty much be the same as knowing the exact effect of the rune. The only difference is that it will cost gold (and maybe a ton of gold) to get the exact rune you want.

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Quote from MasterFischer

1. No I don't agree. If people feels they need to replay Diablo 3 with a new character, then that's exactly what people are gonna do. Just like in Diablo 2. However, the difference is that you don't HAVE to do it, in order to see and try out new skills and builds. You CAN do it, but you dont HAVE to. Big difference and it's actually alot more fun this way, because nobody is forcing you to do anything. There is tons and tons of freedom. No incentive? Was there ever one in Diablo 2 ? Other than having to forceully do it, or else you couldn't ? That's really a positive thing?

Like i said, people will do whatever they want. If they wanna relive the entire campaign with a new character with a new build, then they will do it. incentive or not.. doesn't matter.

2. Yes you are wrong. You won't get ALL spells at the start. That's ... I mean cmon.. really that's just stupid. You unlock skills just as Diablo 2, as u level up. They grow stronger, + u get new ones.. and u get more attributes. you constantly have to rethink your char in Diablo 3, because u can choose rather freely what u wanna do.

Well, I think I get you point, but I don't agree. I always loved the way you could create a new character and start anew to do something you've never done before and live all the game with that. The first levels were always more fun than the last ones. Now that you can try different builds in higher level, people just won't try newer characters. Yes, I can do it, but most people won't and that will make less people in lower levels, which are the best IMO.

Thus, what I THINK will happen in MY OPINION is that people will just get to high-level and swap some builds, then bore from the game, even they having 1 bazillion builds left, it just bores to try A LOT of builds. The TIME they will spend replaying will be much lower than they spent in D2, that's why I say the replayability seems to be lower.

Quote from Leeodin

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Quote from Leeodin

Quote from Cujo2

Let me get this straight:

A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?

Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?

Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.

It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.

I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.

I believe they should keep the attributes on a random roll when set in a skill and that the rune becomes set with the skill; however, I dont think they should make the type of rune unknown. With the current amount of work it takes to get to a level 7 rune, putting it a skill and getting a worthless rune type is just a kick in the balls...So keep everything in the new system except let the rune type be know, I think that is the best solution imo

That's what I said

Quote from Leeodin

Quote from Cujo2

Let me get this straight:

A level 7 Rune drops called "Rune VII" (I guess). I want a Crimson Rune for my spell that I've been after for quite awhile. I whack that level 7 rune into that spell and it goes Indigo. I go "$@#$" and keep looking while being left with a wasted level 7 rune that ONLY works in the spell that I want Crimson for?

Is that how the proposed system is meant to work?

Yes pretty much. That rune can then be sold / traded / wiped for a cost.

It also gets random attributes (+10str or w/e) so even IF you get the Crimson rune you want. It may not roll with the stats you are after.

I don't mind the random stats BUT the rune-type should still be known. I should know it is a Crimson Rune even if I don't know what other attributes it may have. At least then it will only be a subpar rune rather than a useless one at worst.

Quote from xRand0mH3rox

The idea behind the recent rune ideas that Jay talked about in the interview gave me the idea to solve the problems most of us have with this new skill system. It is ok to swap the skills without any consequences, but the skills could be made like runes.
If we insert a skill into a slot, it is unmastered, so it can be changed any time, like in the current concept. But every slot would have a mastering option. 30-60 is 30 levels, divided by 5 is 6. So the characters would get one mastering points every 5 level after level 30, which means 6 points total.
Every slot would have 3 master level, like advanced, expert and master.
If someone starts to master a skill, that would be locked into the slot. Mastering would give affixes semi-connected to the skill, like increasing critical-chance or resource pool maybe.

So basically it would keep the skill changing option to experiment any time, but if someone wants to really go deep into customization and maxing out the potential of a character, mastering a skill would be a choice to go as well, and it would make the skill build locked.

I am sorry for this wall of text, hope that my idea is understandable and I am really interested about your opinion...

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Little off topic, but when is the conference call gonna be? Hopefully beta begins this weekend or something.

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Quote from Crit

Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.

I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.

The WHOLE point of the new skill system is actually to NOT want you to exchange skills all the time.

You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game. That's the point. If u wanna respec u can, but you really shoudn't need to, because u already focsed on what u wanna do with your char... and what u chosen, can get you through the game..

Doesn't matter what build you choose, you can use it to end the game, no matter how weird and funny it is.. and that's the point. Viability.

Again, choosing 6 skills + 3 passives will be enough for ANY situation. It's your final build. But u can choose to alter it if u want. How is this taking away freedom, how is this making the choice for us and so on ?

In your argument here, you are assuming that everyone will make the wise/correct choice in skills and they will never want to change their skills around. But with the current system, there is no need to choose wisely, because you can easily change them if need be or just because. I believe that is what everyone is trying to say, that is why we want a cost/consequence if you do not choose wisely...

The cost and consequence of not choosing what you want, is runestones, items and equipment. Because they directly rely on how powerful is and to what effect your spell has. And besides, we don't know if there is gonna be cost of respeccing or not, regardless, it won't make a huge difference really.

The point is, that there ARE no "wise" choices, as such, because the game is ultimately what YOU make it out to be. You can choose to make a build that not many other people do, and u might be successfull with it, or u can choose another build, that might be better at something else or better at the other build in some ways, but not in all ways.

Assuming that there are "correctness" of choice in builds, is going back to Diablo 2. BEcause that's what cookie cutters are all about. 2-3 builds that you HAVE to do, OR you are behind. You won't be as good as other people as killing stuff. This is such as bad design, so they made a new and better one.

Quote from MasterFischer

Quote from carnage665

Quote from Crit

Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.

I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.

The WHOLE point of the new skill system is actually to NOT want you to exchange skills all the time.

You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game. That's the point. If u wanna respec u can, but you really shoudn't need to, because u already focsed on what u wanna do with your char... and what u chosen, can get you through the game..

Doesn't matter what build you choose, you can use it to end the game, no matter how weird and funny it is.. and that's the point. Viability.

Again, choosing 6 skills + 3 passives will be enough for ANY situation. It's your final build. But u can choose to alter it if u want. How is this taking away freedom, how is this making the choice for us and so on ?

Quote from carnage665

Quote from Crit

Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.

I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.

Quote from MasterFischer

Quote from Lethal_Weapon

Quote from MasterFischer

Quote from VladDracul

Quote from Lethal_Weapon

Ok, so I dont know if I am missing something here or not. People are arguing that they are basically taking out the players choice and consequences for their actions because you can freely choose which skills to use at any given time (which I agree). So, what if the player still had to choose which skill to use out of their 6 and they could not change it after they selected it. The skills still scale with level and are made more powerful. With that being said, you keep respec in the game to change your 6 skills that are alotted to you. This way, the players choices have consequences, there is a cost to change skills around, and this still eliminates the skill system. I just dont think that people should be able to choose whatever skill to use at any given time, that just doesnt make since to me. You are going to use whatever skill set is effective for whatever types of monsters you are fighting at that time and change it as you go. I dont feel like people have to make very many decisions and everything is handed to you on a silver platter. If anything, they should make it where it costs the player something to change their 6 skills around...by thats just me, anyone see any problems with this?

This is exactly what a couple of other people and I have asked for. It retains their system and allows us to actually make choices beyond putting them in our skill bar.

1. You don't know ANYTHING about limits and costs of respecs or anything yet... wait for it before you complain, there will be costs and respec limits.

2. Respeccing skills in 6 + 3 is not that easy and fast, once you choose your skills you are supposed to stick with them for a while, so choose wisely.

3. Runestones makes you focus on which 6 spells you want to be using alot, so, you don't want to just use all spells all time. You want to use the spells you think is fun and the spells which u play with best, and focus on them with runes, items, gems etc..

4. You can't switch spells on the fly, while in combat, or even in a dungeon.

5. Not being able to change the 6 spells you choose, would be the same as D2 in away, you CAN always respec, if u wanna try anothe rbuild, and u can always refocus ur runes, but it takes alot of cost and work to do so.

1. Respeccing is gone with the new system, so yea...did I miss your point?

2. Since Respeccing is gone, you can easily change your skills back and forth on the fly. No need to choose wisely..

3. I agree that runes will make you stick with some skills, but once you start using high level runes, you would have already found the build that works best for you and stick to those skills.

4. I havent seen a quote stating that you cannot change skills in a dungeon? Please provide...

5. As it stands now, you can change skills freely and there is no cost to you. That is why I want players to choose their skills and it is locked until you respec. Which needs to be added to the current system.

Honestly, I think you might be confused regarding the new system and that respec is out the window...

1. Respeccing meant as respecializing your initial 6 + 3 skills... this is not gone, and perhaps they will most likely make a limitation on how you do that of some kind or a cost perhaps. . wait and see.

2. As i said. respeccing is still in the game, u choose your skills, but u cannot do it in combat or any situation where you need it. So you need to choose skills wisely, before u enter a battle, or boss fight.

3. Not nescessarily. If you know that u want to use a high lvl skill with a high lvl rune, once you unlock it, then you go change your skill to that, active skill to get it + rune. or u might just want to have a low unlock skill with cool runes all along... depends on what u like, and what the spell does. Maybe you wanted to change your skills completely mid-ways into the game...

4. Trust me, it won't be possible. I haven't a direct source, but it would be stupid not to be able to do that, since it's ACTIVE skills. You make a choice. I believe Jay once said this. Regardless, just wait and see before you whine about it. GAME ISN'T EVEN OUT YET.

5. Skills ARE locked. You choose 6 + 3 and you can't choose anymore. You stick with that. If you wanna respec you can, but not all the time, in combat, and maybe it will cost...

But most importantly, the player dont want to switch all the time, because u choose the skills u want a some point, and then make runes in them to focus.

Quote from VladDracul

Know what, after reading the new rune revision I think it'll be ok. Id still rather have to choose my skills and respec if needed but I can deal with having all skills. The true customization comes in finding the right rune for your favorite skills. The skills are just like a demo at the moment, once you find the right rune with the right stats that makes the skill a skill.

And if they actually put variation on the runes and make them hard to find, that will make characters unique in the sense I am looking for.

Quote from MasterFischer

Quote from VladDracul

Quote from Lethal_Weapon

Ok, so I dont know if I am missing something here or not. People are arguing that they are basically taking out the players choice and consequences for their actions because you can freely choose which skills to use at any given time (which I agree). So, what if the player still had to choose which skill to use out of their 6 and they could not change it after they selected it. The skills still scale with level and are made more powerful. With that being said, you keep respec in the game to change your 6 skills that are alotted to you. This way, the players choices have consequences, there is a cost to change skills around, and this still eliminates the skill system. I just dont think that people should be able to choose whatever skill to use at any given time, that just doesnt make since to me. You are going to use whatever skill set is effective for whatever types of monsters you are fighting at that time and change it as you go. I dont feel like people have to make very many decisions and everything is handed to you on a silver platter. If anything, they should make it where it costs the player something to change their 6 skills around...by thats just me, anyone see any problems with this?

This is exactly what a couple of other people and I have asked for. It retains their system and allows us to actually make choices beyond putting them in our skill bar.

1. You don't know ANYTHING about limits and costs of respecs or anything yet... wait for it before you complain, there will be costs and respec limits.

2. Respeccing skills in 6 + 3 is not that easy and fast, once you choose your skills you are supposed to stick with them for a while, so choose wisely.

3. Runestones makes you focus on which 6 spells you want to be using alot, so, you don't want to just use all spells all time. You want to use the spells you think is fun and the spells which u play with best, and focus on them with runes, items, gems etc..

4. You can't switch spells on the fly, while in combat, or even in a dungeon.

5. Not being able to change the 6 spells you choose, would be the same as D2 in away, you CAN always respec, if u wanna try anothe rbuild, and u can always refocus ur runes, but it takes alot of cost and work to do so.

Quote from VladDracul

Quote from Lethal_Weapon

Ok, so I dont know if I am missing something here or not. People are arguing that they are basically taking out the players choice and consequences for their actions because you can freely choose which skills to use at any given time (which I agree). So, what if the player still had to choose which skill to use out of their 6 and they could not change it after they selected it. The skills still scale with level and are made more powerful. With that being said, you keep respec in the game to change your 6 skills that are alotted to you. This way, the players choices have consequences, there is a cost to change skills around, and this still eliminates the skill system. I just dont think that people should be able to choose whatever skill to use at any given time, that just doesnt make since to me. You are going to use whatever skill set is effective for whatever types of monsters you are fighting at that time and change it as you go. I dont feel like people have to make very many decisions and everything is handed to you on a silver platter. If anything, they should make it where it costs the player something to change their 6 skills around...by thats just me, anyone see any problems with this?

This is exactly what a couple of other people and I have asked for. It retains their system and allows us to actually make choices beyond putting them in our skill bar.

Quote from CherubDown

Quote from Doomscream

I didn't think that in a Diablo game, there might be something like too much customization. It the case with runes, this gets a little bit over the top. It will be a pain a real pain to find the rune with the right modifier, and with the right amount... In my opinion it will just get too overwhelming.

I see where you're coming from, but I do think they need to add a little bit more complexity to the rune system. As it stands now (or before.. whatever), all you have to do is get a certain level rune to drop and you're good until the next level. Without any sort of random element, the rune system is "Oh, yeah, I have a Level 7 Crimson rune and I never have to upgrade again", which is something I think they want to avoid. Runes won't amount to anything if there is nothing special about them.