They want to get as many people as they can "exploiting" and ban them so they have to buy a new game. D3 business model: don't release any new content until people get bored and start to fuck with the game, ban them all, then release new content.
I can agree here. I think it's a cop out on creating actual content for the game (ie. more-to-do). The ladder grind doesn't really feel like competition. It's under-rewarding and it's insanely time-consuming. I feel the game needs a way that's rewarding for players to interact with one another that isn't a monotonous grind vs. the algorithm. A way for the players of the game to test their minds against each other, rather than against the AI.
I think Challenge Rifts will be a pretty good addition for that. No excuses, no meta, no RNG - everyone uses the same char/build and has the same rift and it's a true race; i don't think the game engine and mechanics are feasible and flexible enough for a true PvP competition. It's something i'm not interested on actually, but the system is way better than the current "i have farmed 100% efficiently for a thousand hours more than you so i win" thing.
The game needs other things to do, simply put. Story mode could be meaningful in some way but it's just left there. New zones are cool but they're there just for a couple of new bouties no one cares for. Character power is tied to GRs climbing and legendary gems since gearing reaches a plateau pretty fast even for casual players.
You're wrong about PvP. I've seen a system that would work insanely well with this game type. During Christmas Dota2 has an event where two parties are killing npc monsters from separate ends of the map. The team with the most monster kills at the end of the timer wins. It kinda takes balance vs. each other and makes that a non-issue (tuned for monster kills, looking for monster kills). Add a few on ground buffs and make a set or 2 that only drops from the game mode (or gems that drop for other slots in gear other than jewelry). Done.
The fact remains that the devs from this game haven't even tried to create a "true" competitive environment. Brawling is a cop out as well (and the worst, most sad feature of the game).
I don't think people will care about the initial balance if there are items to be had. If something gets too crazy, they can fix it later. It's all about pushing that content. Make a map. Put the players on the board.
This is my #1 complaint against the game and it has been from day one: D3 devs are pussies that don't take risks and are so out of touch with the players they don't even know what we want anymore. They just keep dropping in these "new areas" that add NOTHING to the game. Set dungeons? WTAF.
Getting to the point: the whole discussion Primals v1 VS Primals v2 is completely bogus. The relative power provided by v1 is around 2-3 GRs on a paragon 2k character - so extremely low also given the rarity of the item.
Primals v2 have on the other side next to zero impact and are pointless to hunt for the most part until you really want to "finish" your character.
The whole reason is that seasons are a game based on (freakin) ladders. Even the smallest power increase is something most players focus on and what drives the casual masses to hunt for. Anyway the reality is that only a few people will actually get some of the given the rarity.
v1 didn't have GRs requirement so ladders could be easily fucked up by some sheer luck and while Ladders imho have next to zero meaning, still it's not something anyone wants. v2 Primals just negate this possibility since a good rolled Ancient is really near in terms of power with a Primal.
The whole Primal thing was doomed before even coming to light since it's just "meh" design. The game needs different gameplay additions - i hope that with Challenge Rifts also standard ladders will just be removed since they're actually not an indicator for anything so the attention will be less focused on the fantomatic "meta" which is created by players and gives the false impression that if you don't play that exact build you're doing it wrong.
I can agree here. I think it's a cop out on creating actual content for the game (ie. more-to-do). The ladder grind doesn't really feel like competition. It's under-rewarding and it's insanely time-consuming. I feel the game needs a way that's rewarding for players to interact with one another that isn't a monotonous grind vs. the algorithm. A way for the players of the game to test their minds against each other, rather than against the AI.
And in reply to your second post, those secondaries are detrimental to both group and solo play. There's only so many times you can CC enemies before they become CC immune. It's just the way things work. Good players don't want any more CC from bad secondary affixes interfering with CC/debuffs/control from the group, causing future CC to be ineffective.
It's just the way it is. Anytime someone specifically putting on more CC than necessary (like iceblink gem past 25), they just don't know what they are doing.
My current helm on season is 1000/987/6/socket. Most other pieces are this way as well (limited exceptions being amulet and rings), all within 1% of max. And to be honest, I'm not nearly pushing as hard as I can (I'm studying engineering right now, I don't have the time).
What this means: primal ancients are a 0.001%-1% upgrade, even for casual players (I'm a casual this season for sure). That's it. Each piece I find is an infinitesimal upgrade, and after I find one, well, there's no more reason to ever have to find another one, hence no benefit to farming. What happens when you get a full set and you only play wizard? Then you have no reason to play the game at all.
Primals: Might as well be nothing, and will eventually ruin the game.
maybe if you bot 18 hours a day for 3 years you might get items for 1 build.
but what about all the new build and all the new items every patch?
and do not tell me you farm 24/ hours a day to get 10-100 main stat on your items.
most players even stop before finding full normal ancient, the perfect items will make ppl play more but none will ever get perfect stat combination in every slot, (MAYBE THORNS SADER LON with random items)
I was pushing rank 1 in the first few seasons. Most of the pro players belong to communities and really don't interact with the general population. There's teams out there running speed 90s within the first couple days of season. By their good graces, I'm allowed to play with good players, because they know I can do my job as support or dps in a "no room for error" environment. Most players simply don't perform to these standards and hence are inefficient. I don't bot, I have toons with thousands of hours since vanilla on them. I don't really have to play hard anymore, even so, with the crafting system, within weeks of a new season, I am optimally geared.
If you want to instantly point fingers and blame your shortcomings on others, or to simply call them cheaters, it makes you a toxic individual. Maybe you should try talking to people or doing some research before you just spout off, because now I wouldn't be inclined to help you at all.
My current helm on season is 1000/987/6/socket. Most other pieces are this way as well (limited exceptions being amulet and rings), all within 1% of max. And to be honest, I'm not nearly pushing as hard as I can (I'm studying engineering right now, I don't have the time).
What this means: primal ancients are a 0.001%-1% upgrade, even for casual players (I'm a casual this season for sure). That's it. Each piece I find is an infinitesimal upgrade, and after I find one, well, there's no more reason to ever have to find another one, hence no benefit to farming. What happens when you get a full set and you only play wizard? Then you have no reason to play the game at all.
Primals: Might as well be nothing, and will eventually ruin the game.
Manald Heal worked great, it's a great success, so let's do the same here. MH has 14000% dmg on a 15% stun chance of Paralysis, so they thought that 10000% dmg on 20% chance on frozen is about the same.
But it's not.
First of all, Paralysis proc chance and duration is not diminished by other CC effects. Secondly, Paralysis itself is the "proc" that counts; Rimeheart has a 20% chance on top of a CC effect. If Rimeheart ever works, it'll only be for solo wizards, probably combined with Halo of Arlyse. Since I don't care about solo builds, for me Rimeheart is still dead.
I'd love to see them rework Rimeheart completely to something that doesn't make it subject to CC effect gambling. Something like gaining a debuff after being hit by cold spells or so. But if they just tweak the numbers, they'd have to make it crazily overpowered for solo before it becomes even remotely useful for groups.
The devs have commented on it working as strongarms work in the future, if they put it on the front end, it will essentially be manald. I addressed this. But, for me, you are disregarding the fact that those initial huge numbers (because it hits in one shot vs. manald pseudo dot) are extremely helpful in 90+ because the squishiest white enemies drop really fast. This helps you ramp up archon faster. I honestly think it can compete. Primals are going to be rare enough that you're going to be going after whichever archetype fits in with the highest dps weapon you find. Which I actually think is cool, because it's going to subsequently force people to try build variations, like substituting azurewrath/rimeheart for whatever/starfire, rather than people having access to everything instantly and just putting on whaveter the people on the top of the leaderboard are wearing.
It's also worth mentioning that the current manald archetype doesn't require anything in particular on the mainhand, as long as starfire is cubed. Swords and daggers are both very nice, depending on which cooldown breakpoint you are sitting at, getting back into archon could be a matter of a split second. That means that Rimeheart is one of the options for mainhand, if you are looking for something for free (and happen to have 2-3 freeze on hit rolls on wep/oh/belt). Finding (primal) gear for this isn't going to be easy at all. But for a good percentage of high paragon grinders, this will be a viable option.
Rimeheart has a 10% change to proc on frozen enemies.
Frostburn have a 50% chance to freeze enemies; I see you added Azurewrath and Ice Blades, so you're at a higher proc chance (I'm not sure if they stack multiplicatively or additively, but it doesn't matter). Also note that for Ice Blades the enemy needs to be chilled first. The problem is that all those are CC effects, and as such they trigger the diminishing returns on CC and make the mob virtually CC immune after a few hits. So adding just more and more won't help you past a certain point.
Those procs have to be multiplied with the proc chance of the skill/rune you chose - in your case Ice Blades (31% proc coefficient). I'd strongly recommend to switch to Magic Missile, as most runes have a 100% proc coefficient and you already have the Mirrorball which helps tremendously as well.
So let's picture the fight: first hit either freezes (yay!) or doesn't. If it doesn't, not only will Rimeheart have no chance to proc, it's also getting increasingly difficult to freeze due to CC resistance. If it does, you still will only see a proc in approx. 1 of 32 hits (10% Rimeheart proc chance, 31% Ice Blades proc coefficient). And that certainly feels like "never".
Also another word about Rimeheart. I love this sword and would love for it to be useful. I've tried to create builds for it for a long time. But Rimeheart is incredibly underpowered and useless - it was right from the start. 10000% damage with a 10% chance and a requirement for the target to be frozen means that even if all mobs were frozen, it would only be 1000% weapon damage (which is nothing), and due to the recent CC changes it's impossible to keep mobs frozen for more than a few split seconds in any longer fight. Add to that the many low proc coefficients... effectively, even useless weapons like Stalgard's Decimator or Fulminator have a higher "real" damage output than any Rimeheart build.
So right off that bat, using Bagstone's maths, we can say RH is now 1/16 vs. 1/32, simply because of 20% vs 10% chance.
One of the other changes they've talked about, is making making Rimeheart proc on the front of a freeze, rather than after it, similar to what they've done to strongarms. This would mean that the enemy doesn't necessarily have to be frozen to recieve damage. Anything at this point is speculative, it could be huge (think manald), or it could still be severely limited by its internal cooldown. If they turn it into manald, it's going to be extremely powerful. I don't know how they would balance for that (possibly making other weapons legendary affixes not garbage might be a good start [read: 4000% fulminator is what it would take to compete with a 50% furnace]).
In testing, I've found Azurewrath is by far the best weapon to pair with Rimeheart (roll off the cold % and it is compatible with MH builds as well). The baked in 25% freeze on hit does in fact both proc Rime AND Ice meteor from the 2-piece Tal Rasha's (which leads to further RH procs). The enchantress and the templar can both wear this weapon as well. The scoundrel can wear buriza. Weapon, belt, and offhand can all roll a total 10.3% freeze on hit, possibly making Rimeheart or Starfire the best weapons for MH builds, if you were to find the insanely hard to find ancient/primal QUINTFECTA (fuck) freeze items. Furthermore, chill on hit can proc the 2 Pc TR Ice Meteor, But cannot proc Rimeheart on its own. Weapon and shoulders and can roll chill on hit. Eun Jang Do also has a very good interaction with Rimeheart, and allows for more leniency with cooldown/attack speed breakpoints, if you were to use a dagger as a weapon.
Rimeheart currently isn't working as intended (as has been stated in multiple blue posts). It still has the same ICD as it did before. The changes have not gone live that will affect the item. HOWEVER, even with that, at high GRs, the huge proc can help take out squishier enemies much faster than it's other counterparts. In solo, this means you have an oculus ring proc (from your follower) on the ground faster. Arguably, this means you will be doing more damage faster, getting more stacks on archon faster, and therefore doing much more overall damage (might even be working on live 2.4.3 right now, in this fashion, how that compares to pig sticker/starfire, I don't know).
I've had Rime proc on entire groups of enemies before. Whether this is a bug or intended, it has happened. I don't know if this is an area damage interaction or not. I don't know if this is just something that happens. Boom everything poofs. It is in no way reliable.
Like manald, I believe archon's exploding blast is interacting with RH's procs (or snapshot mechanic). I've had it explained (I could barely understand what he was saying). Here's the point, however: Do not use Archon EB or Archon Strike while in archon. It will negatively affect RH/MH procs. It's the truth. Test it for yourself. (If someone can offer a proper explanation I will edit it in).
Familiar - Icicle adds both a freeze AND a proc coefficient. Hydra with the Magistrate cubed or worn is arguably the best way to proc RH. I ran pure cold Archon in V6 utilizing this mechanic with serpent sparker and tasker and theo. It was able to do thru 85 quite ok (albeit way slower than MH), but just wasn't putting the numbers on the board to be competitive at higher GR (bummer). Winter flurry is worth looking at, as well.
Things I don't know:
Does Area damage affect RH?
Does CHC from conflag, EA, etc. affect RH dmg?
Does ele cold% affect RH dmg?
Does damage from alternate sources, (ie Shard of hate lightning) proc RH?
If you guys can answer questions or have some more that need to be addressed, here might be a good spot to start this up.
You guys missed some pretty huge changes on your list. Primarily that Vyr's 4 piece and Fazula's bonuses were swapped, and Bane of the Stricken has an INSANE nerf coming.
0
They want to get as many people as they can "exploiting" and ban them so they have to buy a new game. D3 business model: don't release any new content until people get bored and start to fuck with the game, ban them all, then release new content.
0
The fact remains that the devs from this game haven't even tried to create a "true" competitive environment. Brawling is a cop out as well (and the worst, most sad feature of the game).
I don't think people will care about the initial balance if there are items to be had. If something gets too crazy, they can fix it later. It's all about pushing that content. Make a map. Put the players on the board.
This is my #1 complaint against the game and it has been from day one: D3 devs are pussies that don't take risks and are so out of touch with the players they don't even know what we want anymore. They just keep dropping in these "new areas" that add NOTHING to the game. Set dungeons? WTAF.
0
1
And in reply to your second post, those secondaries are detrimental to both group and solo play. There's only so many times you can CC enemies before they become CC immune. It's just the way things work. Good players don't want any more CC from bad secondary affixes interfering with CC/debuffs/control from the group, causing future CC to be ineffective.
It's just the way it is. Anytime someone specifically putting on more CC than necessary (like iceblink gem past 25), they just don't know what they are doing.
2
I was pushing rank 1 in the first few seasons. Most of the pro players belong to communities and really don't interact with the general population. There's teams out there running speed 90s within the first couple days of season. By their good graces, I'm allowed to play with good players, because they know I can do my job as support or dps in a "no room for error" environment. Most players simply don't perform to these standards and hence are inefficient. I don't bot, I have toons with thousands of hours since vanilla on them. I don't really have to play hard anymore, even so, with the crafting system, within weeks of a new season, I am optimally geared.
If you want to instantly point fingers and blame your shortcomings on others, or to simply call them cheaters, it makes you a toxic individual. Maybe you should try talking to people or doing some research before you just spout off, because now I wouldn't be inclined to help you at all.
3
My current helm on season is 1000/987/6/socket. Most other pieces are this way as well (limited exceptions being amulet and rings), all within 1% of max. And to be honest, I'm not nearly pushing as hard as I can (I'm studying engineering right now, I don't have the time).
What this means: primal ancients are a 0.001%-1% upgrade, even for casual players (I'm a casual this season for sure). That's it. Each piece I find is an infinitesimal upgrade, and after I find one, well, there's no more reason to ever have to find another one, hence no benefit to farming. What happens when you get a full set and you only play wizard? Then you have no reason to play the game at all.
Primals: Might as well be nothing, and will eventually ruin the game.
0
The devs have commented on it working as strongarms work in the future, if they put it on the front end, it will essentially be manald. I addressed this. But, for me, you are disregarding the fact that those initial huge numbers (because it hits in one shot vs. manald pseudo dot) are extremely helpful in 90+ because the squishiest white enemies drop really fast. This helps you ramp up archon faster. I honestly think it can compete. Primals are going to be rare enough that you're going to be going after whichever archetype fits in with the highest dps weapon you find. Which I actually think is cool, because it's going to subsequently force people to try build variations, like substituting azurewrath/rimeheart for whatever/starfire, rather than people having access to everything instantly and just putting on whaveter the people on the top of the leaderboard are wearing.
It's also worth mentioning that the current manald archetype doesn't require anything in particular on the mainhand, as long as starfire is cubed. Swords and daggers are both very nice, depending on which cooldown breakpoint you are sitting at, getting back into archon could be a matter of a split second. That means that Rimeheart is one of the options for mainhand, if you are looking for something for free (and happen to have 2-3 freeze on hit rolls on wep/oh/belt). Finding (primal) gear for this isn't going to be easy at all. But for a good percentage of high paragon grinders, this will be a viable option.
0
Yeah, 7 days without an update is almost statistically impossible.
0
They are making changes to Rimeheart in 2.5.0!! What's changed so far? It now has 20% chance to hit on frozen targets. What does that mean?
I'll start off with Bagtone's recent explanation of the Rimeheart proc mechanic
So right off that bat, using Bagstone's maths, we can say RH is now 1/16 vs. 1/32, simply because of 20% vs 10% chance.
One of the other changes they've talked about, is making making Rimeheart proc on the front of a freeze, rather than after it, similar to what they've done to strongarms. This would mean that the enemy doesn't necessarily have to be frozen to recieve damage. Anything at this point is speculative, it could be huge (think manald), or it could still be severely limited by its internal cooldown. If they turn it into manald, it's going to be extremely powerful. I don't know how they would balance for that (possibly making other weapons legendary affixes not garbage might be a good start [read: 4000% fulminator is what it would take to compete with a 50% furnace]).
In testing, I've found Azurewrath is by far the best weapon to pair with Rimeheart (roll off the cold % and it is compatible with MH builds as well). The baked in 25% freeze on hit does in fact both proc Rime AND Ice meteor from the 2-piece Tal Rasha's (which leads to further RH procs). The enchantress and the templar can both wear this weapon as well. The scoundrel can wear buriza. Weapon, belt, and offhand can all roll a total 10.3% freeze on hit, possibly making Rimeheart or Starfire the best weapons for MH builds, if you were to find the insanely hard to find ancient/primal QUINTFECTA (fuck) freeze items. Furthermore, chill on hit can proc the 2 Pc TR Ice Meteor, But cannot proc Rimeheart on its own. Weapon and shoulders and can roll chill on hit. Eun Jang Do also has a very good interaction with Rimeheart, and allows for more leniency with cooldown/attack speed breakpoints, if you were to use a dagger as a weapon.
Rimeheart currently isn't working as intended (as has been stated in multiple blue posts). It still has the same ICD as it did before. The changes have not gone live that will affect the item. HOWEVER, even with that, at high GRs, the huge proc can help take out squishier enemies much faster than it's other counterparts. In solo, this means you have an oculus ring proc (from your follower) on the ground faster. Arguably, this means you will be doing more damage faster, getting more stacks on archon faster, and therefore doing much more overall damage (might even be working on live 2.4.3 right now, in this fashion, how that compares to pig sticker/starfire, I don't know).
I've had Rime proc on entire groups of enemies before. Whether this is a bug or intended, it has happened. I don't know if this is an area damage interaction or not. I don't know if this is just something that happens. Boom everything poofs. It is in no way reliable.
Like manald, I believe archon's exploding blast is interacting with RH's procs (or snapshot mechanic). I've had it explained (I could barely understand what he was saying). Here's the point, however: Do not use Archon EB or Archon Strike while in archon. It will negatively affect RH/MH procs. It's the truth. Test it for yourself. (If someone can offer a proper explanation I will edit it in).
Familiar - Icicle adds both a freeze AND a proc coefficient. Hydra with the Magistrate cubed or worn is arguably the best way to proc RH. I ran pure cold Archon in V6 utilizing this mechanic with serpent sparker and tasker and theo. It was able to do thru 85 quite ok (albeit way slower than MH), but just wasn't putting the numbers on the board to be competitive at higher GR (bummer). Winter flurry is worth looking at, as well.
Things I don't know:
Does Area damage affect RH?
Does CHC from conflag, EA, etc. affect RH dmg?
Does ele cold% affect RH dmg?
Does damage from alternate sources, (ie Shard of hate lightning) proc RH?
If you guys can answer questions or have some more that need to be addressed, here might be a good spot to start this up.
0
Gz to Avoid on clear. It's becoming increasingly apparent that people are underestimating Archon Wizards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIkfishi5VQ