Thanks for the feedback guys. As well as the DML I also changed my shoulders by dropping RCR and going with AD, as the latest patch apparently fixed it (although I don't know exactly what they fixed or if it is now fully working as intended). So I've been running without the + Hatred Regen from the old quiver and without the 8%RCR on shoulders.
I was of the opinion that with Cindercoat cubed it was probably ok to prioritise VIT over regen and AD over RCR however I will say I'm noticing the difference and have to manage my resources alot more carefully. I probably need more playtime before I can make an informed decision about whether I should stay with my latest changes or revert back, notwithstanding the 5% loss on the DML. I am for sure appreciating the extra Vit but the fact is I'm still pretty squishy. I'm thinking that for it to make a real difference I might need to (for example) chase some ancient gloves with +vit on them as well. That, and amethest in helm, and +life on belt and then I probably would notice a real difference. Jury is still out.
I have 2 GG Ancient Deadmans (both have +12 disc and +15 Multi rolled)
The original has 18 AS 10 CC 60% Hits Twice and has Dex and +1.4 Hatred regen.
The second has 20 AS 10 CC 55% Hits Twice and has Dex and Vit.
I'm running the latter because I'm somewhat starved for Vit and it gets me over 4K. I could look for vit on gloves or helm, however the gloves and helm I have at the moment both have almost unbeatable rolls (gloves are 995 dex 10/50 and 7 AS, Helm is 1000 dex rolled, 6 CC and +15 Multi).
Anyway, while I prefer the Vit over Hatred Regen, it is not clear to me how significant the 5% difference on the legendary affix is, in terms of damage loss. At the moment though, I just can't turn down the extra vit.
1) My generator is Entangling Shot/Justice is Served (negates need to run iceblink so can run BotS and has synergy with my ancient Star of Az making me immune to reflect)
2) I run Steady Aim over Ambush but I am unsure which is better. If I had a suitable GG Hellfire I'd run both.
3) I run Caltrops not Smokescreen (ps as it also has a slow effect it further negates the need for Iceblink -it is also cheap so I spam it frequently, normally vault into mob, drop it, vault back and drop it again then start spamming generator/spender)
4) Sometimes, just for the hell of it I run Witching Hour and cube Hunters Wrath. When I do that I feel rcr on Shoulders is essential. I should probably try and get it somewhere else as well, maybe on one of the rings (Crit Chance; Crit Damage and RCR would be the dream).
In a group, if someone else is running Calamity I change my cubed weapon to Odyssys End as that has synergy with Entangling Shot and also offers a party favor (albeit not as good as Calamity). In party, I'd probably be better off dropping Caltrops for MFD as it would also be better for the party overall, and stacks with Calamity.
While I like Evasive Fire/Iceblink I loose so much killing power on the RG without BotS that I just don't think it is worth the loss, unless maybe when in a party with other members running Stricken also.
Detecting the use of Bots does not necessarily require scanning memory for 3rd party software. The application itself (D3) can simply include an anti bot game mechanic that is too complex for a bot to simulate/navigate successfully. This proposed anti-bot mechanic can itself use encrypted and randomised memory locations thus protecting itself from future efforts to reverse engineer and defeat it.
Honestly, if Blizzard had a will to stop botting in this game they probably would have done so long ago.
I agree that Blizzard are very unlikely to actually do anything about Botting, I'm just saying that if they wanted to they could, and I don't mean banning, I mean making it technically impossible for bots to play the game would be very easy, if they genuinely wanted to get rid of the botting issue once and for all. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that the use of botting is quite widespread and/or has been used by high profile players for a long time. If that is the case, getting rid of botting may have significant negative financial repercussions for Blizzard, and it *may be* one reason why they act like it isn't there. I sure would love it if a player who got invited to one of their tavern talk videos actually rasied questions about it what their response would be. I suspect they would sweep it under the carpet and try to act like it is a non issue.
The best way to get rid of bots is to make it unprofitable or difficult to bot. The removal of AH was probably the single biggest hit to botting, but it's still prevalent for things like GR keys, HF mats, mats in general, and low-mid xp farming (bots can farm GR, just not very high). Hopefully Blizzard can put in some code to confuse them enough to make them ineffective. I'm not a programmer (I've taken some classes and written some small scale programs in college, but that was long ago), but I'm sure there are SOME things they can do.
The thing about Bots is they are extremely good at some things, but completely incompetent at others. An occasional random event that simulates a required interaction with the user that a bot cannot replicate is all that is needed to defeat the software. I imagine some care would be needed to implement this "anti bot" behviour in a way that seemlessly integrates itself into the game such that it causes minimal disturbance to the rest of the game. In my view it could easily be themed in such a way that people might not even perceive it as an anti-bot feature, but rather a new game mechanic. Off the top of my head I can imagine a sceanrio where the reward is a random opportunity to upgrade a gem (with low % chance of success). The mechanics of the interaction would be such that a bot could not simulate it, and enough repeated failures would, at the very least, send an alert to Blizzard so they could investigate.
Again, don't know how it works but from what I know there are basically 2 types of bots - memory readers and screen (pixel) readers. Screen readers will always work as long as the environment is static, and completely fall apart if it's not. D2 had several screen readers that were impossible to detect, even featuring randomization so they couldn't be flagged for patterns. Memory readers are more advanced, but (I assume) can be confused with encrypted memory injections by Blizz, kind of like hashIDs.
The third (honorable mention) type is code injection, but that doesn't really exist anymore as it gets shut down immediately by warden.
I guess we could compare the war against bots as being somewhat similar to virus and antivirus software. Neither is static, and each will be required to dynamically evolve with the other. No doubt if Blizzard did introduce bot detection the bot developers would quickly go to work on ways to circumvent it. I'd have to give the advantage to the D3 developers if a serious technology war between the two was to occur, as it is their software, so they set the rules with the bot developers being tasked with finding loopholes in them. The thing is, it appears Blizzard has a long history of doing absolutely nothing about Botters, essentially acting like they don't even know they exist, which is pretty laughable.
I agree that Blizzard are very unlikely to actually do anything about Botting, I'm just saying that if they wanted to they could, and I don't mean banning, I mean making it technically impossible for bots to play the game would be very easy, if they genuinely wanted to get rid of the botting issue once and for all. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that the use of botting is quite widespread and/or has been used by high profile players for a long time. If that is the case, getting rid of botting may have significant negative financial repercussions for Blizzard, and it *may be* one reason why they act like it isn't there. I sure would love it if a player who got invited to one of their tavern talk videos actually rasied questions about it what their response would be. I suspect they would sweep it under the carpet and try to act like it is a non issue.
The best way to get rid of bots is to make it unprofitable or difficult to bot. The removal of AH was probably the single biggest hit to botting, but it's still prevalent for things like GR keys, HF mats, mats in general, and low-mid xp farming (bots can farm GR, just not very high). Hopefully Blizzard can put in some code to confuse them enough to make them ineffective. I'm not a programmer (I've taken some classes and written some small scale programs in college, but that was long ago), but I'm sure there are SOME things they can do.
The thing about Bots is they are extremely good at some things, but completely incompetent at others. An occasional random event that simulates a required interaction with the user that a bot cannot replicate is all that is needed to defeat the software. I imagine some care would be needed to implement this "anti bot" behviour in a way that seemlessly integrates itself into the game such that it causes minimal disturbance to the rest of the game. In my view it could easily be themed in such a way that people might not even perceive it as an anti-bot feature, but rather a new game mechanic. Off the top of my head I can imagine a sceanrio where the reward is a random opportunity to upgrade a gem (with low % chance of success). The mechanics of the interaction would be such that a bot could not simulate it, and enough repeated failures would, at the very least, send an alert to Blizzard so they could investigate.
I find myself looking at the DH class in two different ways this patch. Taken purely on its own merits I like how it plays compared to 2.2. For me this is a result of the new gear options; the cube (obviously) and the changes to mobs; affixes; bosses etc.
However compared to relative changes to the strength of other classes (namely melee based) it has lost a lot of ground, which reduces the enjoyment of playing it in groups as you feel like you are underperforming.
I'm limiting my impressions mainly to the UE set, which again, I feel was given a good buff this season (Yangs/Wraps/Hunters) but taken in context of how the other classes are playing, is significantly underperforming.
I think one of the issues is what you had to give up to include the 2 new items Wraps of Clarity and Hunters Wrath. The latter means no more WH which is an AS and Crit Damage loss, and the former means no Lacunis/steady Strikers which is more AS loss. This detracts a little from the gains we get from the new items, the net result being we have a little more toughness, a little more punch, but we probably needed a bit more of both (or at least one of) in order to keep a viable place in an optimal team composition.
Fortunately, I still enjoy playing the class and the friends I play with are not so competitive that they demand I run a more optimal class, nevertheless, the hunter gets less use than he used to simply because I can undeniably push higher with other builds. I really hope there is a minor rebalancing of this class in the next patch, I've always felt the DH should be a somewhat more fragile class but which has massive damage capabilities making it a risk vs rewards type of build.
I agree that Blizzard are very unlikely to actually do anything about Botting, I'm just saying that if they wanted to they could, and I don't mean banning, I mean making it technically impossible for bots to play the game would be very easy, if they genuinely wanted to get rid of the botting issue once and for all. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that the use of botting is quite widespread and/or has been used by high profile players for a long time. If that is the case, getting rid of botting may have significant negative financial repercussions for Blizzard, and it *may be* one reason why they act like it isn't there. I sure would love it if a player who got invited to one of their tavern talk videos actually rasied questions about it what their response would be. I suspect they would sweep it under the carpet and try to act like it is a non issue.
Agree with Sonaks 100% This is a no brainer re-roll of the damage range. Get it close to max and you have a great bow (though the rcr is on the low side)
Botting could be killed dead tomorrow with a simple hotfix. I would not be at all surprised if Blizzard already have a number of technical solutions almost ready to go if they ever decided to pull the trigger on it.
There must surely be some quite simple solutions that Blizzard could implement to break botting software and I think it shows poor ethics on their part that they turn a blind eye to it because of the probable financial impact it would have on them if they killed botters. It seems to me that when it comes to money Blizzard appear to have a lot of moral flexibility.
They will never ever be able to break all that stuff. Warden is not allowed to scan the memory or the harddrives anymore for software in some regions. So the bot developers still have a good place where to hide the software.
For me the solution is very very simple. Paragon matters to much at the moment in season and non season. Think the impact in season is even higher than it is non season. Paragonpoints should be more wortheless. I this patch was just farmign the new stuff, soing some bounties ~3 days with my mates and since then grinding the shit out of the game for ep. Nothing more nothing less.
If paragon would be more useless it would switch a bit.
There are other much less invasive methods. There are many behaviours and interactions bots cannot replicate, a simple random test that may pop up every now and then (say just before entering a bounty or rift/grift) that establishes it is a human at the controls would easily break and deter botting. lets say after 3 consecutive failures of the test your account automatically goes into suspension. Similar types of tests exist on many websites to stop botters/spammers.
ps. the test could be in the form of a small mini game, suitably diablo themed, that takes less than 5 seconds to complete. eg: the image of a random Boss, his name at a random location on the screen, and a number of obviously false names elsewhere. you select the right name and you are good to go.
I'm just spit-balling here, but what about the option to "save" up to 10 Grifts, so that they can be replayed as many times as you want, with whoever you want. That way we at least have a reliable way to test different builds and/or party compositions in a very practical and meaningful way, or simply gauge character progression.
Regardless of my personal view of botting (for the record I think it is lame no matter how much the apologists try to justify it). This really is on Blizzard. In my mind I have no doubts they are fully aware of the situation and likely already have very good stats relating to how many people bot.
There must surely be some quite simple solutions that Blizzard could implement to break botting software and I think it shows poor ethics on their part that they turn a blind eye to it because of the probable financial impact it would have on them if they killed botters. It seems to me that when it comes to money Blizzard appear to have a lot of moral flexibility.
ps. without leaderboards I would not see botting as an issue. But regardless of whether people regard Diablo as competritive or not, the very presence of leaderboards means it has a competitive component, and the existance of botting destroys any shred of credibility that those leaderboards have, IMHO -ps. I say all this as a console player, I have no stake in botting personally, but I would not go near PC leaderboards for this very reason.
My interpretation of the primary stat for BotS is that is applicable to all enemies. Based on the description I don't see how there could be any doubt of that.
The secondary stat, however, is specific only to the RG and Bosses (like Matheal when running a bounty). Damage to Elites and Champions will not benefit from the secondary, and if it did, it would make BotP an almost completely redundant gem.
ps. based on the replies to this thread, I'm going to provide the following feedback to those who think the primary is a debuff for the party: "On the PTR it originally behaved that way, but no longer does and the debuff is specific to your own attacks. Having said that, it probably still makes sense to only have one DPS running it since they will sufficiently aid in the quick defeat of the RG so other DPS characters are probably better off using another gem that will aid in getting to the RG quicker."
Each attack you make against an enemy increases the damage it takes from your attacks by 0.80%
Which I interpret as meaning it is a debuff but only applicable to my attacks.
Naturally enough, I'm gaming with some guys who are claiming it is a party debuff and everyone will benefit from it but if that is the case it contradicts the description which explicitly says "your attacks". When I point this out they tend to just get annoyed and say it is just badly worded at which point any further debate on the subject would be pointless. Maybe the reason they are claiming that is that the original BotS did provide a party favor (it was explicitly mentioned in the description and the original gem did make it on to the console essentially via a hack/import).
Anyway, I don't believe it behaves like the Poison Gems 10% debuff and I'm just seeking confirmation here. I'm getting a lot of people since the 2.3 patch who are making some pretty dubious claims, of which I think this is one of.
0
Thanks for the feedback guys. As well as the DML I also changed my shoulders by dropping RCR and going with AD, as the latest patch apparently fixed it (although I don't know exactly what they fixed or if it is now fully working as intended). So I've been running without the + Hatred Regen from the old quiver and without the 8%RCR on shoulders.
I was of the opinion that with Cindercoat cubed it was probably ok to prioritise VIT over regen and AD over RCR however I will say I'm noticing the difference and have to manage my resources alot more carefully. I probably need more playtime before I can make an informed decision about whether I should stay with my latest changes or revert back, notwithstanding the 5% loss on the DML. I am for sure appreciating the extra Vit but the fact is I'm still pretty squishy. I'm thinking that for it to make a real difference I might need to (for example) chase some ancient gloves with +vit on them as well. That, and amethest in helm, and +life on belt and then I probably would notice a real difference. Jury is still out.
0
I have 2 GG Ancient Deadmans (both have +12 disc and +15 Multi rolled)
The original has 18 AS 10 CC 60% Hits Twice and has Dex and +1.4 Hatred regen.
The second has 20 AS 10 CC 55% Hits Twice and has Dex and Vit.
I'm running the latter because I'm somewhat starved for Vit and it gets me over 4K. I could look for vit on gloves or helm, however the gloves and helm I have at the moment both have almost unbeatable rolls (gloves are 995 dex 10/50 and 7 AS, Helm is 1000 dex rolled, 6 CC and +15 Multi).
Anyway, while I prefer the Vit over Hatred Regen, it is not clear to me how significant the 5% difference on the legendary affix is, in terms of damage loss. At the moment though, I just can't turn down the extra vit.
Thoughts?
0
My build is similar, except
1) My generator is Entangling Shot/Justice is Served (negates need to run iceblink so can run BotS and has synergy with my ancient Star of Az making me immune to reflect)
2) I run Steady Aim over Ambush but I am unsure which is better. If I had a suitable GG Hellfire I'd run both.
3) I run Caltrops not Smokescreen (ps as it also has a slow effect it further negates the need for Iceblink -it is also cheap so I spam it frequently, normally vault into mob, drop it, vault back and drop it again then start spamming generator/spender)
4) Sometimes, just for the hell of it I run Witching Hour and cube Hunters Wrath. When I do that I feel rcr on Shoulders is essential. I should probably try and get it somewhere else as well, maybe on one of the rings (Crit Chance; Crit Damage and RCR would be the dream).
In a group, if someone else is running Calamity I change my cubed weapon to Odyssys End as that has synergy with Entangling Shot and also offers a party favor (albeit not as good as Calamity). In party, I'd probably be better off dropping Caltrops for MFD as it would also be better for the party overall, and stacks with Calamity.
While I like Evasive Fire/Iceblink I loose so much killing power on the RG without BotS that I just don't think it is worth the loss, unless maybe when in a party with other members running Stricken also.
cheers
0
Detecting the use of Bots does not necessarily require scanning memory for 3rd party software. The application itself (D3) can simply include an anti bot game mechanic that is too complex for a bot to simulate/navigate successfully. This proposed anti-bot mechanic can itself use encrypted and randomised memory locations thus protecting itself from future efforts to reverse engineer and defeat it.
Honestly, if Blizzard had a will to stop botting in this game they probably would have done so long ago.
0
0
The thing about Bots is they are extremely good at some things, but completely incompetent at others. An occasional random event that simulates a required interaction with the user that a bot cannot replicate is all that is needed to defeat the software. I imagine some care would be needed to implement this "anti bot" behviour in a way that seemlessly integrates itself into the game such that it causes minimal disturbance to the rest of the game. In my view it could easily be themed in such a way that people might not even perceive it as an anti-bot feature, but rather a new game mechanic. Off the top of my head I can imagine a sceanrio where the reward is a random opportunity to upgrade a gem (with low % chance of success). The mechanics of the interaction would be such that a bot could not simulate it, and enough repeated failures would, at the very least, send an alert to Blizzard so they could investigate.
0
I find myself looking at the DH class in two different ways this patch. Taken purely on its own merits I like how it plays compared to 2.2. For me this is a result of the new gear options; the cube (obviously) and the changes to mobs; affixes; bosses etc.
However compared to relative changes to the strength of other classes (namely melee based) it has lost a lot of ground, which reduces the enjoyment of playing it in groups as you feel like you are underperforming.
I'm limiting my impressions mainly to the UE set, which again, I feel was given a good buff this season (Yangs/Wraps/Hunters) but taken in context of how the other classes are playing, is significantly underperforming.
I think one of the issues is what you had to give up to include the 2 new items Wraps of Clarity and Hunters Wrath. The latter means no more WH which is an AS and Crit Damage loss, and the former means no Lacunis/steady Strikers which is more AS loss. This detracts a little from the gains we get from the new items, the net result being we have a little more toughness, a little more punch, but we probably needed a bit more of both (or at least one of) in order to keep a viable place in an optimal team composition.
Fortunately, I still enjoy playing the class and the friends I play with are not so competitive that they demand I run a more optimal class, nevertheless, the hunter gets less use than he used to simply because I can undeniably push higher with other builds. I really hope there is a minor rebalancing of this class in the next patch, I've always felt the DH should be a somewhat more fragile class but which has massive damage capabilities making it a risk vs rewards type of build.
cheers
1
I agree that Blizzard are very unlikely to actually do anything about Botting, I'm just saying that if they wanted to they could, and I don't mean banning, I mean making it technically impossible for bots to play the game would be very easy, if they genuinely wanted to get rid of the botting issue once and for all. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that the use of botting is quite widespread and/or has been used by high profile players for a long time. If that is the case, getting rid of botting may have significant negative financial repercussions for Blizzard, and it *may be* one reason why they act like it isn't there. I sure would love it if a player who got invited to one of their tavern talk videos actually rasied questions about it what their response would be. I suspect they would sweep it under the carpet and try to act like it is a non issue.
0
Agree with Sonaks 100% This is a no brainer re-roll of the damage range. Get it close to max and you have a great bow (though the rcr is on the low side)
0
Botting could be killed dead tomorrow with a simple hotfix. I would not be at all surprised if Blizzard already have a number of technical solutions almost ready to go if they ever decided to pull the trigger on it.
0
There are other much less invasive methods. There are many behaviours and interactions bots cannot replicate, a simple random test that may pop up every now and then (say just before entering a bounty or rift/grift) that establishes it is a human at the controls would easily break and deter botting. lets say after 3 consecutive failures of the test your account automatically goes into suspension. Similar types of tests exist on many websites to stop botters/spammers.
ps. the test could be in the form of a small mini game, suitably diablo themed, that takes less than 5 seconds to complete. eg: the image of a random Boss, his name at a random location on the screen, and a number of obviously false names elsewhere. you select the right name and you are good to go.
0
I'm just spit-balling here, but what about the option to "save" up to 10 Grifts, so that they can be replayed as many times as you want, with whoever you want. That way we at least have a reliable way to test different builds and/or party compositions in a very practical and meaningful way, or simply gauge character progression.
0
Regardless of my personal view of botting (for the record I think it is lame no matter how much the apologists try to justify it). This really is on Blizzard. In my mind I have no doubts they are fully aware of the situation and likely already have very good stats relating to how many people bot.
There must surely be some quite simple solutions that Blizzard could implement to break botting software and I think it shows poor ethics on their part that they turn a blind eye to it because of the probable financial impact it would have on them if they killed botters. It seems to me that when it comes to money Blizzard appear to have a lot of moral flexibility.
ps. without leaderboards I would not see botting as an issue. But regardless of whether people regard Diablo as competritive or not, the very presence of leaderboards means it has a competitive component, and the existance of botting destroys any shred of credibility that those leaderboards have, IMHO -ps. I say all this as a console player, I have no stake in botting personally, but I would not go near PC leaderboards for this very reason.
0
My interpretation of the primary stat for BotS is that is applicable to all enemies. Based on the description I don't see how there could be any doubt of that.
The secondary stat, however, is specific only to the RG and Bosses (like Matheal when running a bounty). Damage to Elites and Champions will not benefit from the secondary, and if it did, it would make BotP an almost completely redundant gem.
ps. based on the replies to this thread, I'm going to provide the following feedback to those who think the primary is a debuff for the party: "On the PTR it originally behaved that way, but no longer does and the debuff is specific to your own attacks. Having said that, it probably still makes sense to only have one DPS running it since they will sufficiently aid in the quick defeat of the RG so other DPS characters are probably better off using another gem that will aid in getting to the RG quicker."
cheers.
0
The primary attribute is described as:
Each attack you make against an enemy increases the damage it takes from your attacks by 0.80%
Which I interpret as meaning it is a debuff but only applicable to my attacks.
Naturally enough, I'm gaming with some guys who are claiming it is a party debuff and everyone will benefit from it but if that is the case it contradicts the description which explicitly says "your attacks". When I point this out they tend to just get annoyed and say it is just badly worded at which point any further debate on the subject would be pointless. Maybe the reason they are claiming that is that the original BotS did provide a party favor (it was explicitly mentioned in the description and the original gem did make it on to the console essentially via a hack/import).
Anyway, I don't believe it behaves like the Poison Gems 10% debuff and I'm just seeking confirmation here. I'm getting a lot of people since the 2.3 patch who are making some pretty dubious claims, of which I think this is one of.
cheers.