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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Hey, I remember this topic.

    Also, looks like that Diablo Art petition did a lot of good.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Let's put the whole quote by Bashiok in:

    There has and continues to be a very strong push towards keeping the art stylized, but realistic, and this is especially true for the size of armor and weapons.

    I think people see the barbarian's shoulder pads and then decide that it's an exaggerated art style, which simply isn't the case. The artists have had a very specific commitment to keeping items very much based in a realistic style, size, and appearance. Or at least as much as is appropriate for a fantasy game. Look at the hands, feet, head, facial features, etc. and you'll see that they're being kept at a very realistic proportion.

    If anything I think the barbarian shoulder pad size could be shrunk a bit, and maybe it will be, but a single slot on a single class really shouldn't be used to form an opinion when there are plenty of other pieces to examine that show the contrary.


    Oh,...wow.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    LOL i feel bad for you.

    Wow... And i dont mean World of Warcraft. Just wow.

    You really think armor is spiced into two catagories as "fantasy" and "real-life"?

    Anything thats fantasy can be big as shit no matter what style of game we are talking about?

    Hey, hear that everyone! Creepsville says this or this isnt a problem in Diablo because its all fantasy shoulder pads and not only in WoW. :thumbsup:

    Yes, because WoW is the most famous game that has such aspects. Maybe i should say Knight Online shoulder pads or Mu-Online shoulder pads instead???

    Well you dont get it, thats the fact.

    Nope. Maybe some displacement of the shoulder pads, or just cutting the size down. Otherwise they may just make something with the same art style that looks and is placed etc. different.

    Those are some specialities of good shoulder pad designs for a serious RPG.
    You really like the over-exaggerated MMO shoulder pads dont you?
    If its all that unimportant why not just have something like this:
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/pl_pauldrons_stone_resolve.jpg
    Because they look "intimidating". :rolleyes:


    I hope you understand now how much different fantasy products can be. Saying they all are the same is like saying a Ferrari and an Opel is the same. (Really dont know how good that example was.)


    You're opinions have been proven not as something better for the game, but only a matter of taste that won't make people happier with the game. Your points have become inane to the point to where all you can do is type "lol" and claim that I don't understand.

    Your droning about your warped interpretation of Diablo shoulder pads has become somewhat of a parody of how far gamers will go to nitpick the very things they claim to be fans of.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: If large shoulder pads don't take you out of the experience of the game then they probably aren't too big. They don't distract. They keep the fantasy alive. Therefore, you have no real changes that need to be made. You don't know what's better. You don't know what immersive even means. You know this, and yet you keep droning and misunderstanding most of what people type to you, all the while taking jabs at them. This shows me that you aren't worth speaking to - again.

    I'm going to put you on ignore again. Your huge mind numbing posts that show your lack of understanding what people type to you and your presentations of your personal taste as if it is something that will make everyone happy with Diablo disgusts me. It's childish. And I'm done telling you what's up only to have you planning your next ramble out before you're even done reading what I'm actually saying.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »
    I really cant do anything if you dont see the difference.

    Exactly. Fantasy armor is allowed to be large and intimidating.

    So what you say is basically: "Diablo 2 has big shoulder pads, Diablo 3 has big shoulder pads and World of Warcraft has big shoulder pads. Its all the same."

    Yup. ALL of it is fantasy armor. All of it is typical of a fantasy game.

    Im telling that since many posts.

    Exactly. So big armor falls under the fantasy genre. So it's allowed, right? So will shrinking down the pads to a certain size make people on the whole happier? Nope.

    Just tell me that WoW style shoulder pads arent a problem either (in Diablo) and we know what you think.

    This is what I've been saying. Big shoulder armor on a freakin' He-man barbarian isn't uncommon. It has nothing to do with WoW.


    I dont say Diablo 3 is like WoW, try to get the point.

    Constantly with the WoW references...constantly with the comparisons to "WoW shoulders".

    You obviously dont understant examples. I tried to explain the difference between totally relistic and "immersive but not really realistic".
    I wasnt talking about D3.

    It's just easier for you if you can tell yourself that I don't get it, right?

    Your talking about the art direction again. That got old bud. I already explained how what i say doesnt mean changing the art-direction.

    Actually, a change in shoulder pad design is essentially a change in art direction. You want a standard of reality to be met from the art direction, which would require heavy changes. How about instead, if you don't like certain shoulder armor in the game you just refrain from using it?

    Its not about D3 needing something. Its about what some people like to see. And if Blizz doesnt care about those people at all, f' it.

    They care, but they don't care about meeting ridiculous stipulations on shoulder armor size and movement ability.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on G4TV's Adam Sessler Attacks Diablo 3's Art Haters
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    LOL you sure took them down. :D


    It feels good.


    You sure your english is good? Is your mind clear right now? Re-read please. Thanks.

    Your question makes no sense. Rewrite it so that it makes sense.

    Depending on your wiev they may be "good" or "awarage". But some people care much about those models seen through the whole game.

    Most people care and most people like them. Moving on.


    Other than that, D3 has those issues with the models and animations etc. which are much different than the environment issues.


    If by "issues" you mean "not to Kenzai's personal tastes" then yes, D3 has "issues"...

    The situation is the same. People cried when they saw that D2 has outdoor areas and intense, saturated colors. They said things were too bright. Now D3 is the same situation. If a forrest isn't shrouded in black charred bones and covered in a rain of blood somehow it is considered "happy" and "bright". The forest I saw was pretty, but in no way did it seem "happy". It seemed like a solid fantasy game area that was refreshing after being in a dungeon.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    Ive really tried hard to make you understand the giant differences of shoulder pads in D2 and what we saw in the D3 trailer...


    You're trying to get me to see a difference in shoulder armor that YOU see. You've had to make up differences in order to complain for the most part.

    And also about the necro, something written by ME in my previous posts:
    "All the pauldrons in D2 could be designed in real-life and they would really look like that. (Ok, maybe not a skull as a shoulder pad like the necro has or a claw like the druid has. Concentrate on the barb and pally.)"

    So you admit that D2 has some fantasy shoulder armor,...finally.

    YOU said something about "Blizard's realism" but what we saw in the trailer isnt even something like "fantasy realism", the equipment pieces floating through each other (just one example) is nothing else than a graphical problem. (Maybe not "problem" but i think its obvious what i mean.)

    Nope. It's not a problem with graphics. It's quite common for 3-D games with all kinds of armor to wear to have such a set up. Secondly, you misunderstood me - I was speaking about the reality that Blizzard has personally created for D3. It is there world. So that creation is their reality.

    Why? Its a game from the same franchise and the game aspect we are discussing currently was good in that game.

    Then don't tell me that you don't want D3 to be the same as D2.

    I think you just dont get what "reality" can mean.

    No, I get it. I think you don't understand that a game doesn't need to meet a BS standard of reality as designed by YOU - unless it's your game.

    If theres some weird stuff with the physics in the game, like a bug or something you know (dont know how to exactly explain), its both un-realistic and bad for immersiveness.

    There isn't a problem like this in the gameplay video.

    But if you have demons and undead and dragons and magic etc. in a game, its un-realistic but can very well remain immersive as long as its designed properly.

    You mean designed according to your tastes.


    You should stop cutting out parts of a paragraph.
    Read the rest and come back.

    You should stop arguing just for the sake of arguing. I know you like to think that you've devised this great idea that will somehow make everyone happy, but in truth you are pushing for your vision and your agenda to be implemented in Diablo - which is never going to happen. Of course you're going to keep going and going. It's your opinion and you feel that you can justify it as something D3 needs when in fact it doesn't.

    Go listen to the newest Blizzcast. Listen to Jay Wilson explain the art direction on D3 and how they worked on it for 2 friggin' years and came to the best outcome that they could.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on G4TV's Adam Sessler Attacks Diablo 3's Art Haters
    Quote from "Kenzai" »
    And you were talking about repeting. :rolleyes:


    I'm enjoying taking down the same points you keep bringing up in multiple threads.

    1) So what if the game progresses into more darkness? Even the monsters in the first places will be happy and cheerful? Also the style of the models of some objects and lighting style etc. are things that most likely stay during the whole game. (I think its actually a part of the art style. Though it would be enaugh to just improve them in some way without changing them all that much.)


    I don't really see what you are asking here. Yes, the game's story leads into darker areas. Moving on.

    2) How in the hells do those things not matter for the gaming experience? Ill see those things the whole game.

    Ah ha! See? You didn't read. I said that they don't "take you out" of the game experience. Of course, they matter, but they aren't BAD DESIGNS. They don't distract you from the game. They don't make normal people say "oh shit! those shoulders are too big and bulky! They don't allow free form of motion!!!!" If it doesn't take you out of the fantasy they've created then it is not worth asking to change it based on personal tastes or your interpretation of reality.


    3) Not every kind of change is the same. You can change by improving from the previous aspects (example is below) or you can change it totally. D3 is i think kinda in between, they tried to just improve but changed some things kinda wrong or something, i dont really know either how they brought it to the current state.


    You don't like change. Your arguments constantly refer to D2 as some kind of Diablo standard. You do realize that there was a minority of people who complained when they saw how D2 had changed from D1, right? Well, this situation is no different.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »




    Nope, look at the character selection screen. And for the barb theres this 3D model with a heavy armor model, same as in-game.

    Nope. Both games have large shoulder armor. Both games have fantasy armor in them that wouldn't work in reality. A giant bone spike coming off the Necro's shoulders is not a more immersive armor type. You're misusing terms in order to have an argument.



    The pauldrons really arent realistic AT ALL. You see the armor parts floating through each other when the barb swings his weapon.

    They look fine to me. A hulking barbarian in powerful looking armor. Sounds right to me from a FANTASY standpoint. Reality? You play games for reality suddenly?


    I pointed it out SPECIALLY that i DO NOT want the same as in D2.

    Then stop using D2 as a reference for ALL of your arguements.

    The general idea was good. Kickass/cool/intimidating/... shoulder pads which are still "immersive" or however you want to call it.

    Stop misusing terms. Immersion in gaming is not necessarily rooted in REALITY.


    "WoWishness" gets an issue if its seen too much in D3.


    Just leave WoW out of it. It's never been a good example as it doesn't look like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is much more beautiful and detailed looking and it's characters look amazing.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    All the pauldrons in D2 could be designed in real-life and they would really look like that.


    1. That is your opinion. It's obviously debatable. D2's graphics were 2-D and it's harder to tell really what's going on with the shoulder designs. It's guess work.

    2. Secondly, it doesn't make Diablo 2 more immersive than D3. Most people, Kenzai, don't see the shoulders and get taken out of the game or are suddenly placed more into the game because the shoulders on the 2-D sprites seem to "fucntion" in reality.

    3. You're ignoring that Blizzard is creating their own reality in Diablo. That's what counts. They can give shoulder pads a strong intimidating look if they want in their reality. It doesn't take the gamer out of the game.

    4. You simply don't like change and you are rationalizing why things need to stay the same as D2 when we've changed D3 over into 3D.

    5. WoW is a contemporary fantasy game. It is not the root of big shoulder pads, but it instead gives big shoulder pads to it's characters as derived from other fantasies before it. So leave WoW out of your arguments. WoW is not the issue.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    I explained how the D2 shoulder pads are big and kickass while remaining credible.
    Not just big like in WoW.


    They are big fantasy shoulder armor. The same applies to D3. It's the same thing. Credible is subjective as it implies that people look at the D3 shoulder pads and think "I don't believe those!", but like I've already told you in previous posts: People aren't doing that for the most part. The people who are doing it are complaining about WoW sized pads. They have something against WoW...and they hate change, even if it isn't much different.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on G4TV's Adam Sessler Attacks Diablo 3's Art Haters
    Quote from "Kenzai" »


    If you look at the petition and all the debates again, youll see that what i said are a part of the most common "problems". Not problem for everyone of course, but things that could be changed in a way that it please more old fans.



    The petition doesn't cite actual game problems. It instead explains that Diablo needs to meet a standard of personal taste.

    The game has no real problems as it is. It just isn't dark enough for some people. However - if you tell a good story you know that it can't be on the same wavelength and have the same mood the entire time. If D3 was dark and ugly the entire time we would get bored quickly. D3 isn't post apocalyptic. It's post the world is healing up. Putting in nice areas and then having the storty take us to new corrupted areas and darker dungeons gives the feeling of a progression. A journey into the unknown. A quest that leads us from comfy villages and into the jaws of doom.

    Secondly, none of the things complained about in the petition take people out of the experience. Hence, there isn't a real problem. It's a matter of taste. Your taste isn't necessarily what's "true" to Diablo. It's arrogant to assume it is.

    You guys simply don't like change. That's what it really comes down to.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Here's the problem with your complaints Kenzai: What you're complaining about doesn't take people out of the game experience.

    It is accepted that fantasy shoulder pads are large and don't quite subscribe to actual historical armor. Also, part of the appeal of large armor is that it makes it feel as if your character is growing in power and presence, which is a HUGE part of the philosophy behind the game Diablo.

    So if large shoulder armor that doesn't make perfect sense upon strenuous inspection doesn't even translate on the screen while you are playing and doesn't take us out of the fantasy then it really isn't that big of a problem. No, it's not only not a problem, it's part of the fantasy of Diablo when it comes to making an intimidating, powerful looking character.

    Most people do not see the Barbs shoulder pads in D3 and say that they don't make sense or take them out of the game. Most the people complaining about the shoulders are comparing the game to WoW or saying they don't make sense. These two things are something that doesn't matter to most gamers - nor do they even notice these things.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Of all the things on the Petition...
    Quote from "Dimebog" »


    Come one, whiners - hit me with your best 'explanation' as to why oversized armour in D2 that looked nothing like medieval plate armour should actually be perfectly tolerated, but 'oversized' armour in D3 is blasphemy. Yeah I'm always entertained to hear those theories and explanations. It's like when you listen to jehova's wintesses for entertainment before you shoo them.


    But they will tell you that D2 has "realistic" and properly proportioned shoulder pads, while disregarding their hugeness.

    It all boils down to two very basic things with these people:

    1. They don't like change.

    2. They'd like to think that they had a hand in how D3 will turn out in some capacity. They'd like to point to their screen and say "I made that happen."

    These people want the fun they had in D2 to be teleported into D3 or else they are afraid that they will be chasing that fun feeling they had forever. They don't look at the new fun that D3 will bring to the table. They can only rage against D3 because it isn't D2.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on G4TV's Adam Sessler Attacks Diablo 3's Art Haters
    Quote from "Kenzai" »
    Whats your problem? It really doesnt matter. I dont want to watch a video of some guy yelling at me. Answering to you is probably the same, so i dont think i have to watch it.

    A. You cant underestimate the number of people who want some changes just in this forum. It is clear that there are a lot of people.
    B. If those minor changes arent going to affect YOU, and also not the release date etc., then why do you care? The people who like the current look are NOT going to be affected.

    If some people want the whole graphics to be totally revamped and arent going to be happy after some changes in models, lighting etc., no one can do anything for them.
    So forget about that part of people.

    But it is clear that many people will be a lot more happy than now, only if you improve the parts i pointed out (and some that i probably leaved out). Im totally sure about that.
    And it WONT affect YOU.

    Why dont you just stop thinking about that if you wont understand it?

    It was meant to be more funny than credible. And if you want to see what i mean without looking to the serious part, remove Mickey and put something like "bulky shoulder pads" or the like. (JUST an example.)

    Tell me if you had any problems with D2's OR D1's equipment models, environment, animations etc..

    The lighting was kinda bad in dungeons in D2. It was pretty good in D1.

    The graphics in D2 are kinda "pixelated" or however you call that, it was better in D1.

    So never forget about the first game.

    AND I DONT SAY MAKE IT THE SAME.

    What has to remain same is the credibility of the game and how "imersive" it is.

    Also, you dont need green (sourceless) lighting in a dungeon to make the player see the monsters better. (Gameplay)


    Im summing it up, as these quotes get messy:

    Even though some people are going to remain unhappy in some way, some minor changes in the models, environment, lighting, animations etc. will make the biggest part of people clearly more happy than now.

    Those are things that, 1. wont affect the people who currently like the graphics and 2. wont affect the release date (much). So that means it doesnt have much of a downside.

    As more people will be at least less disappointed and hopefully a lot more happy with those little changes, Blizzard's reputation will get better in their eyes, and theres a possibility that more sales will be reached. But thats not the important part.

    Even if the increase in sales is tiny when compared to the sales in total, pleasing the older fans of the franchise is morally a plus for the company. And as i said before, it most probably wont have much of a downside.


    Keep telling yourself all of this,...if you really think it will help. There is no point arguing with someone with no points and only make-believe and self-assurance used in repetition as their tools. You don't know what will make everyone happy. You'd like to think you do so that your vision of what D3 should be would be the "best" thing out there. And that's what you're always talking about in every thread: The "perfect" game - in YOUR eyes.

    If you still can't understand that then it's no wonder you keep droning on like a broken record.
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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    posted a message on G4TV's Adam Sessler Attacks Diablo 3's Art Haters
    Quote from "Kenzai" »
    HAHA. Be honest Creepsville, did you ever really use the ignore list?


    Yes.

    Does he explain any better? I dont think so.

    You didn't watch half of it. You admitted this.


    "You want it changed into this and that!!!"...
    I dont want "the game" (the full art direction) to be changed into something. I want some easy-to-implement improvements thatll please lots of people.

    Don't rationalize why what you are asking for is reasonable. It still is you wanting to change the game. You like to appeal to numbers (citing the petition) when:
    A. We all know that the petition isn't a reliable source.
    B. There is a majority of people who don't share your sentiment on what counts as "better".

    The things i listed are all things that can be reached without major changes. And theyll please the most part.
    It wont affect the release date (much), and it wont make it worse for the currently happy people. Theyll get possibly more sales and a better reputation.

    Your idea still falls within the boundaries of what YOU think is better for the game, whether you mention other people or not. You don't know that it will please everyone. You also know nothing about what it will do for Blizzard's reputation. You're guessing and hoping. That's ok, but you need to understand that "better' is subjective. And Blizzard hasn't shown us their entire vision of the game yet.



    /facepalm

    Thats why i added the serious part.

    Someone who uses his mind will get the main point. Mickey is just to make it funny.


    It doesn't matter. Like I said, it relied on jumping to the far end of the spectrum to prove a point, which is self defeating because your point only has presence if Mickey Mouse is really being put into D3.

    Again, i (and probably everyone else) just want changes that are going to improve it even more and leave more people happy.

    You're definitely on an appeal to the masses kick. What you don't know is: That you are the minority. You are fans and your voice counts, but your ideas, I feel, won't make Diablo 3 a better game for "everyone".
    Posted in: News & Announcements
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