Diablo III - Reaper of Souls Datamined Class Changes - including even more Crusader abilities

  • #41
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Seriously, people really need to understand the disclaimer there. None of these are final, and some are probably only there for "testing purposes". This is like a pre-alpha build of those changes.

    We will only know what really changed when they release patch notes. And only know if it was for the best or the worst after actually playing with the changes.


    I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.

    Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.

    As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)
  • #42
    Do not go to crazy


    Hahaha, perfect. So many of my barb friends are panic selling their gear. Silly, silly.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #43
    Where wiz Critical Mass ??

    :QQ:
  • #44
    Quote from puma

    Where wiz Critical Mass ??

    :QQ:


    if a skill or rune is missing - this means it was not changed at all
  • #45
    What we can take from this, is basically that ALOT will change, playstylewise. Im ok with this.

    Also, changing weaponthrow to a furygenerator = brilliant.
    I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
    When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.

    Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
    Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
  • #46
    Quote from D_oo_M

    if a skill or rune is missing - this means it was not changed at all

    Actually, it more likely means they haven't implemented/tested any ideas for that yet. Probably still discussing what sounds best.

    Quote from riptide

    I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.

    I didn't get your point. You say the Shadow Power change is uncalled for? Btw, it's not really a number change. It's a concept change.

    Giving a character the ability to have an on-demand 15% lifesteal is problematic. Because except for Barbs (which can get 9% lifesteal, or I guess could ;)), classes like the Wizard and WD will never come even close to that sort of sustain. It also means that class doesn't need to care about any sustain in gear, and pretty much all that matters is getting enough Discipline to keep that up all the time.

    Shadow Power was obviously designed as a "burst heal", not as an "infinite sustain" that outshadows all other Discipline abilities. That concept didn't work. And the %-based Sustain neither.

    Maybe they're trying something new. We don't know what was discussed internally. Can't say I totally disagree with them for wanting to mix things up.

    Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.

    Having a hard time understanding this part. As I said, it's not even a "math" change. It's a concept change. 800+ Life on Hit is significant, and we don't even know what they're doing with proc ratios. So really? No room for debate or explanations? At all?

    As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)

    You mean the Attack Speed change shouldn't have happened?

    Also, I didn't mean: "do not criticize any change whatsoever". If you're against the Shadow Power change, discuss it, voice your opinion, say it's unreasonable, think of alternatives, try to prove how the skill isn't broken (you're gonna have a hard time with that one).

    But there's no need to go overboard with the reactions.

    My point was: we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do. Big skill changes like this will very likely go through a PTR testing. And that's the adequate moment for strong and well informed feedback, not now.
  • #47
    Quote from garnok

    What we can take from this, is basically that ALOT will change, playstylewise. Im ok with this.

    Also, changing weaponthrow to a furygenerator = brilliant.


    Only for Barbarian's and Wizard's. The other classes will play pretty much the same builds.
  • #48
    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Quote from D_oo_M

    if a skill or rune is missing - this means it was not changed at all

    Actually, it more likely means they haven't implemented/tested any ideas for that yet. Probably still discussing what sounds best.

    Quote from riptide

    I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.

    I didn't get your point. You say the Shadow Power change is uncalled for? Btw, it's not really a number change. It's a concept change.

    Giving a character the ability to have an on-demand 15% lifesteal is problematic. Because except for Barbs (which can get 9% lifesteal, or I guess could ;)), classes like the Wizard and WD will never come even close to that sort of sustain. It also means that class doesn't need to care about any sustain in gear, and pretty much all that matters is getting enough Discipline to keep that up all the time.

    Shadow Power was obviously designed as a "burst heal", not as an "infinite sustain" that outshadows all other Discipline abilities. That concept didn't work. And the %-based Sustain neither.

    Maybe they're trying something new. We don't know what was discussed internally. Can't say I totally disagree with them for wanting to mix things up.

    Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.

    Having a hard time understanding this part. As I said, it's not even a "math" change. It's a concept change. 800+ Life on Hit is significant, and we don't even know what they're doing with proc ratios. So really? No room for debate or explanations? At all?

    As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)

    You mean the Attack Speed change shouldn't have happened?

    Also, I didn't mean: "do not criticize any change whatsoever". If you're against the Shadow Power change, discuss it, voice your opinion, say it's unreasonable, think of alternatives, try to prove how the skill isn't broken (you're gonna have a hard time with that one).

    But there's no need to go overboard with the reactions.

    My point was: we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do. Big skill changes like this will very likely go through a PTR testing. And that's the adequate moment for strong and well informed feedback, not now.



    I can see people are not really understanding each other here. Please people don't take "opinion" as "facts". Let's just be grateful that we have so much to talk about now. It would be better to just respect ones perspective on things even if it doesn't relate to yours. :)
  • #49
    I don't want to seem like the greedy guy who screams "GIV MOAR NOOOW!!!" straight after a virtual buffet of absolute goodness, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is there more info coming in soon? Just asking if that's all of it, or if you guys are still extracting some more information. Some details on paragon xp, and whatever other stuff on items would be interesting.

    If not, thanks for everything so far. :)
  • #50
    Quote from Molster

    Quote from Uldyssian

    Awww yeah! Thanks for the hard work!


    The two guys that did most of the work to bring you this list you'll never even get to see or know. They are the true heros of this update! =(

    [not me or over]


    Many bothans died to bring us this information
  • #51
    Quote from Zero(pS)
    we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do

    Thechnically, this IS from the PTR :) A wee bit unintended and released early, as the servers aren't live yet, but this was posted by Blizzard to the public content delivery network which is used in open betas, public tests, and live games.

    And yeah, I don't like the direction of the changes either. Apart from the WD, all classes will have to make gearing changes, and on the high end every piece is super expensive. I know that all gear will be replaced when I hit level 70, but there will be months of level 60 gaming between the patch and the expansion. I don't want to get instantly crippled on level 60 once again, just because Blizzard wants to fix things it screwed up. I never invested RM in my characters, but time is more precious anyways, and there is over 1500h of gameplay in my character. Please understand my concern.
  • #52
    Your Haunt and Locust Swarm abilities last almost forever.

    I'm so alright with this passive. Locust swarm and haunt are some of my favourite WD abilities, all I need is for corpse spiders to be badass and my witch doctor is up for some play.
  • #53
    Some good changes for wizz skills and much needed passive's (already I am unsure what to use ). They even used one of my ideas for frozen armour. If black hole gets added it's a must for cm.

    LS is reduced and for good reason, not looked threw the barb skills but hope there are good changes to help other skills make up for the wotb but it did have to go.

    Will be interesting to see how things change now.
  • #54
    I do like Crusader abilities. Can't wait to see them in action and hope he will be true tanking class. I like the idea of getting into middle of mob pack, taking all of it 'on my chest' while others spam spellstorms at it.

    No changes to WD so far 'only' new spells/pssives but still nice info.
  • #55
    problem with DHs is the fact that if you want to up the MPs, you have to go for damage, which means 90% of us have manticore (calamity), and finding one (in d3's case buying one) with Life steal is like winning the lottery. That's why gloom was good, it let us overtake the gear deficiencies.

    In current state, I really don't know how can a DH farm (efficient) a higher MP without gloom. Maybe my mind is stuck in the past, but hey that is why we are discussing now.

    edit. as someone mentioned, could please make a spoiler tag for each class to reduce this scroll to the bottom fest :)
  • #56
    Called Storm Chaser going to Lightning. Feels good.
    They're even reducing the AP cost of Energy Twister, so I'd say CM is off their radar, and the nerf/replacement didn't make this build. One idea of mine had been CM giving a 1 second buff that increased cooldown speeds by 100% - maths out exactly the same unless it refreshes inside 1 second, in which case it's still good (halves all cooldowns) but not permafreeze good. I mean, if you've got Black Hole, Pulsar and Cold Snap, you'd have a pretty good lock, but that's a lot more commitment than many current CM builds.

    Overall, it just feels good. The grammar changes are nice, there's a bit more of a reason to use certain elements, or combinations of elements, and wizards get more good choices of elemental spells. Barbarians look like Relentless is getting turned into a revival passive, and Seismic Slam having a reliable stun is amazing. New Whirlwind - Hurricane has the potential to be a massive farming tool, using Cleave - Reaping Swing and Battle Cry - Bloodshed to kill most of them, Sprint - Run like the Wind to make sure the stragglers die while getting you to the next pack, then gather with Whirlwind.

    And Witch Doctors do have a couple of changes. One rune of Spirit Barrage now has a 2 second Charm attached, and one rune of Firebats removes the mana cost entirely. Pretty major, really.

    Oh, and the 140% movement slow on Ray of Frost - Numb is probably not accurate. Unless it makes them move backwards. Which would be awesome, but kind of impractical.
  • #57
    I suppose I should go perma zerking and disintigrate while I still can. Those spec were absurdly op, but lots of fun. I'm so excited about thoses patches and the xpac! Can't say D3 met all my (very high) expectations. Still played the hell out of it. But with all those changes, it could well become the hack n' slash of my dreams.
  • #58
    I hope the archon nerf won't make it to live
  • #59
    Quote from Grafikm_fr

    I hope the archon nerf won't make it to live


    Oh it will in some form or another. Blizz has said time and time again that they want to get rid of perma-archon and wotb. I hope they nerf CMWW as well.
  • #60
    Quote from Grafikm_fr

    I hope the archon nerf won't make it to live


    *Archon change. It's even more powerful now, it's just not permanent anymore. And Archon wizards get to use more than one spell now, yay!

    Quote from RasAlgethi24

    Quote from Grafikm_fr

    I hope the archon nerf won't make it to live


    Oh it will in some form or another. Blizz has said time and time again that they want to get rid of perma-archon and wotb. I hope they nerf CMWW as well.


    QFT.
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