Wyatt Cheng's GDC Talk Video, Possible Change to Collector Edition Wings, Xbox 360 Version Requires Live Profiles for Coop

  • #1
    Wyatt Cheng's GDC Talk Video
    Wyatt Cheng's GDC Talk is finally available on the GDCVault site. Click the picture below to watch it!





    Possible Change to Collector Edition Wings
    Collector Edition wings could become easier to use, if the feedback Takralus sends is taken under consideration.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

    Thanks for trying to keep this topic constructive ;)

    I must admit, I use the wings sporadically but they'd probably be on a lot more if they didn't vanish so often. Is that necessarily a good thing though, do we want to see them around a lot more or keep them as a rarer thing in Sanctuary?

    Anyway, thanks for the feedback on this, all. Passing it on ^^




    Xbox 360 Version Requires Live Profiles for Coop
    The PS3 on the other hand has no requirements.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

    From what I understand, a couch co-op guest can use any saves that any user on the PS3 system has created, so yes you can both use the goodies that come with the game. The Xbox 360 however requires each player to have their own separate profile with their own characters. Hope that helps! :)
  • #2
    Can't wait to watch this. Might show some answers to why the game is the way it is today.
  • #3
    It really doesn't.

    He explains that players are idiots and cannot make a decision to save their life.

    Also, that making items is hard, but now that the skills are still bad, that they can make items to make them less bad.

    Meh, nothing new, just insight into why they made the bad decisions they did mostly.
  • #4
    Quote from Highborne_D2

    He explains that players are idiots and cannot make a decision to save their life.

    Also, that making items is hard, but now that the skills are still bad, that they can make items to make them less bad.


    Could you tell me the link of the video you watched? Because you definitely did not watch the video of Wyatt Cheng.



    Nice video that shows why the combat system of D3 is so great and just fighting monsters feels so good. It also makes you appreciate how much work they put into testing and iterating. It makes me wonder how many of the "suggestions" we see coming up here have already been tried out in internal beta testing (i.e., during stages no one knows about). It's so easy to just Photoshop something and say "this is the best idea ever, just implement it" but when actually experimenting with it it turns out to be crap. We just see the outcome.
  • #5
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Highborne_D2

    He explains that players are idiots and cannot make a decision to save their life.

    Also, that making items is hard, but now that the skills are still bad, that they can make items to make them less bad.


    Could you tell me the link of the video you watched? Because you definitely did not watch the video of Wyatt Cheng.



    Nice video that shows why the combat system of D3 is so great and just fighting monsters feels so good. It also makes you appreciate how much work they put into testing and iterating. It makes me wonder how many of the "suggestions" we see coming up here have already been tried out in internal beta testing (i.e., during stages no one knows about). It's so easy to just Photoshop something and say "this is the best idea ever, just implement it" but when actually experimenting with it it turns out to be crap. We just see the outcome.


    Uhh the one above, I like the combat, and the potion removal, but the skill system that they finalized on is a giant pile of crap.

    Essentially, the reason they went away from skill trees is because players are stupid, console players cannot understand them (lol borderlands), and that making them so simple would keep it easier to ensure they were fun. Sadly they forgot about making runes actually useful so they ended up with a craptastic system.

    As for items, that is from the QA afterwards, where they essentially said D2 was cool, but we forgot all about it and made shit items from the get go except for 300th Spear, which still quite sucks since it is only a damage increase.
  • #6
    Please watch the video again, starting at about minute 34 or 35. You absolutely did not understand why they went away from the "tree" system. Also, as you can see in the video, many of their earlier iterations still had a tree system.

    Also, nowhere did they say the player is stupid. They said that the player of an ARPG wants to play and not spend hours analyzing the game, which is true. The theorycrafting community in D3 is - whether you believe it or not - quite small. You have not understood anything about this talk.

    Furthermore, many people like the new skill system. I've learned to love the freedom of the D3 skill system and don't want to see skill trees ever again. And Wyatt's comments on why skill trees can be bad sometimes are completely valid. Actually, the current system allows for about 3 billion skill combinations, whereas a dependency-oriented skill tree as in D2 has much less options (I don't know the exact number, but it's probably a few hundred or thousand at max).

    If you hate the D3 skill system so much, say goodbye to Diablo 3. You will not like any future change as there will be no going back to the D2 skill tree. Have fun playing Path of Exile, it sounds like it's being made for you!
  • #7
    One thing is completly clear after the view of the whole presentation, they really have put a lot of effort in combat systems and skill systems.
    But now we all know that they know how to try to make things good, one question is how it´s possible that the same people has made such a terrible item system in the game?
    I think we have an incomplete game since the beginning and the sale date overwhelm the time they have to invest in item system.
  • #8
    Quote from Highborne_D2

    Uhh the one above, I like the combat, and the potion removal, but the skill system that they finalized on is a giant pile of crap.

    No, it itsn't. Too bad some people live solely in the past and on their own nostalgia and can't even see a good change when it happens.

    Essentially, the reason they went away from skill trees is because players are stupid, console players cannot understand them (lol borderlands), and that making them so simple would keep it easier to ensure they were fun.

    Yeah, that's exactly what he says. Goes to prove Bagstone point that you don't even understand their reasoning.

    As for items, that is from the QA afterwards, where they essentially said D2 was cool, but we forgot all about it and made shit items from the get go except for 300th Spear, which still quite sucks since it is only a damage increase.

    Whoever thinks D2 had the greatest item system ever either never really played it (and just jumped on the "diablo fan" bandwagon) or has some rose-tinted glasses hard-glued on their face. This urban legend is really starting to bother me.
  • #9
    the talent-tree in d2 was better. Every skill point inserted into skill increased its damage output, and often skills were connected with each other in the skill-tree sense, complementing and mildly enhancing each other. it's called synergy. for example every point in Electrocute would increase Disintegrate damage by 3%. It encouraged you to level up multiple skills, and at the same time you still had the option of sticking with a handful of skills you want to level up full.
    D3’s skill system did absolutely nothing revolutionary, new, or inventive, it feels like WoW vanilla with no talent trees.
  • #10
    To me the new rune system in D3 is awesome. The part of the new skill system that is falling short stems from certain runes being vastly superior than others and some lacking synergy between skills. It feels as if runes were designed with the idea of being viable as you level rather than all the skills/runes being designed to be viable at inferno MP+ then scaled back.

    Once they tweak and improve the lacking runes/skills for the coming expansions, I think people will be less inclined to look back at D2 with such nostalgic admiration for the skill trees.

    Also I really loved the idea of skill runes as drops and having different levels of quality. This does lead to inventory clutter but perhaps we could see some type of drop or crafting that upgrades the skills we have.
  • #11
    There are 2 ways to get power in an RPG, any RPG at all. One is through levelling and improving skills, gaining abilities and so on, and it doesn't involve itemization. The other is items.
    Diablo3 did away with one, which happens to be the core of the RPG genre. For the other, the community waits for a patch still to come that may or may not improve upon issues.

    (In an effort to avoid the strawmen, you cannot do anything naked (counting your follower as naked too) as a max level character in Diablo3, which does not make sense if you're a magic class in an RPG. You cannot do much as a naked Fighter in other games, but this makes sense!)
  • #12
    Quote from elvy

    (In an effort to avoid the strawmen, you cannot do anything naked (counting your follower as naked too) as a max level character in Diablo3, which does not make sense if you're a magic class in an RPG. You cannot do much as a naked Fighter in other games, but this makes sense!)


    Exactly. And that's a problem in my opinion. Nothing about our character's strength is derived from ourselves. It's all about gear. In someways it's nice to gain power from loot (why else would we want better gear ever). But.... we should have some inherent self-power.

    Nostalgic moment: I remember going back to level two in Diablo 1 to punch the Butcher after having killed Diablo. That was fun :D
  • #13
    Quote from Bagstone

    Please watch the video again, starting at about minute 34 or 35. You absolutely did not understand why they went away from the "tree" system. Also, as you can see in the video, many of their earlier iterations still had a tree system.

    Also, nowhere did they say the player is stupid. They said that the player of an ARPG wants to play and not spend hours analyzing the game, which is true. The theorycrafting community in D3 is - whether you believe it or not - quite small. You have not understood anything about this talk.

    Furthermore, many people like the new skill system. I've learned to love the freedom of the D3 skill system and don't want to see skill trees ever again. And Wyatt's comments on why skill trees can be bad sometimes are completely valid. Actually, the current system allows for about 3 billion skill combinations, whereas a dependency-oriented skill tree as in D2 has much less options (I don't know the exact number, but it's probably a few hundred or thousand at max).

    If you hate the D3 skill system so much, say goodbye to Diablo 3. You will not like any future change as there will be no going back to the D2 skill tree. Have fun playing Path of Exile, it sounds like it's being made for you!


    Couldn't agree more. Well said.
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