Blizzard Working Hard on 'Loot 2.0', Exclusive Merch at SD Comic Con, Blue Posts, Code of Conduct Clarifications

  • #25
    Quote from Kodaijin

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Dude, take it easy with the double posting :P


    Girl, and no problem. Thanks for removing those for me ^_^


    What about "dudette" :P
  • #26
    Quote from Kodaijin

    Of course this is probably most likely the situation. I've been speculating on this for a while now. I suppose being late is better than none at all but the same time you can't justify using expansion to fix what needs to be fixed. A good analogy to this would be to buy a brand-new car this year and they are some serious problems with it so the company releases a new version of the car that addresses all those problems but you have to buy a new car to actually have those problems fixed.

    I am excited for expansion not for the fact that they will hopefully have the majority of problems fixed but rather that there will be more content for us to play with. God forbid they put something for endgame people more than just paragon levels.

    I agree on the part that buying a new version of something only it fixes problems of an old one is bad thing. Unfortunately its easier and quite a doable thing for a gaming company. Afterall price of a game is a small percent of car price, and its kind of aceptable for an avarage person to get 'newer' so it fixes problems of older.

    Same as with DLCs to other games that add end game content or proper end of story line. Its kind of like a cheating but its what game industry is like now. Its bussiness, and no one cares what people think as long as they buy the product. Hence why we have a 'batallion' of comunity managers, so a company knows to what extent they can manipulate on people so they still buy their product. At least thats what i think.

    I'm also excited about expansion pack but to be honest what they can add apart a new act and a new class or two? Runes and runic words? Maybe an 'open world' that they mentioned latley. Rest of it would be an overhaul of items, crafting system and propably skills (maybe so that we have synergies) and that basically would be it.
    Repaired stuff will be sold as a 'new' one, people will be excited for two weeks and than i bet we will have another year of patches :)
  • #27
    Quote from Kodaijin

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    Dude, take it easy with the double posting :P


    Girl, and no problem. Thanks for removing those for me ^_^

    :D no problem. I was just messing around with ya.

    Great posts btw. Quite insightful.
  • #28
    Quote from xMantasx

    I agree on the part that buying a new version of something only it fixes problems of an old one is bad thing. Unfortunately its easier and quite a doable thing for a gaming company. Afterall price of a game is a small percent of car price, and its kind of aceptable for an avarage person to get 'newer' so it fixes problems of older.

    Same as with DLCs to other games that add end game content or proper end of story line. Its kind of like a cheating but its what game industry is like now. Its bussiness, and no one cares what people think as long as they buy the product. Hence why we have a 'batallion' of comunity managers, so a company knows to what extent they can manipulate on people so they still buy their product. At least thats what i think.

    I'm also excited about expansion pack but to be honest what they can add apart a new act and a new class or two? Runes and runic words? Maybe an 'open world' that they mentioned latley. Rest of it would be an overhaul of items, crafting system and propably skills (maybe so that we have synergies) and that basically would be it.
    Repaired stuff will be sold as a 'new' one, people will be excited for two weeks and than i bet we will have another year of patches :)


    I totally agree with you. There would be some more initial excitement over the content and perhaps new systems with a lot of patching and balancing of the mechanics but at the same time it is my feeling that I shouldn't have to pay for virtually a whole new game to get the things that were intended to begin with. I know that with some DLC they are very cheap and absolutely worthwhile to get. A good example is things for mass effect 3, or Skrim, where the mouth content added versus the price is quite good. Where I have a real problem is the price point blizzard has set for their expansions in the past. The actual cost of the expansions are close if not the same price of the originating games. Let's take a very recent example StarCraft 2. The heart of the swarm expansion pack is still $40 that most retail stores and I think slightly less on some digital stores. When the original game came out that was $60. My understanding is that expansion is only giving you 20 munitions with very few other content additions other than things are target for a complete different audience like the multiplayer modes. To be honest it's really hard for me compared the sort again to Diablo because it is a real-time strategy versus an action RPG. But the point is expansions tend to be a lot less lackluster for the price point and content versus the original game.

    Of course I'm actually going to buy it and throw all my money at blizzard because unfortunately they do make quality games that have some awesome replay value. But the same time I think there started to lower their standards for what they consider to be acceptable additional content expansions for their games. Honestly I would be quite happy to pay a monthly fee for additional content that is released every other month or every few months then have to wait longer periods for actual expansions. A good example with the same gaming company would be the World of Warcraft series. Yes that game has insane amount of people playing it and they already have four expansions but in between expansions they do release content additions and updates. I would be more than willing to pay that $15 a month if they can apply the same structure to Diablo as with Diablo this sort of play style and game is more in line with my preferences than an MMO RPG.


    Yeah the other side to this whole equation is that we are still willing to deal with things like DLC and lackluster expansions. Is great for the gaming market with the same time you have to provide quality or people will lose interest very quickly. Goebbels a great example of this currently because in its current state a lot of people have moved on to other games and services while waiting for blizzard, rather the development team, to make Diablo into a point where it has much higher replayability and the flow that it was intended to be at release.

    There are a lot of things that are still missing that we have been promised that we have not received over a year later. A great example of this is the PVP system. With me to state for the record that I don't like PVP and a typically stay away from that sort of thing because of my lack of ability when it comes to that sort of gaining. But they said that at release it was a good be included but will be included at patch later on and they have been saying this for a very long time and yet the only thing we have gotten out of that is the brawling system. Truth this is a form PVP is nothing like they were advertising prerelease as to having a ladder system and rewards that would go with all that. They keep changing the tone on it. While I have released into the game with a currently have it seems like a very small cookie compared actually getting the cookie jar.

    Quote from Zero(pS)

    :D no problem. I was just messing around with ya.

    Great posts btw. Quite insightful.


    No problem I figured you were messing around me and I do not take people to seriously on Internet just because of the general nature of it.

    I'm trying to add meaningful conversation other than just rage flaming posts. More often than not I see a bunch of people not having reasonable discussions and actually have talking points other than saying I don't like this and that. Typically a very quiet on the forms but this topic currently really has gotten under my skin because of the sheer arrogance the blizzard is exhibiting to us. It's sort of has the same feeling that Microsoft try to pull with the new Xbox in regards to the no used games and all the other various restrictions. Honestly I'm not sure how much longer people are going to take the way blizzard is treating their customers laying down. If we had the same sort of problems that are currently in Diablo the put into their flagship game of war craft I can almost guarantee to you that they would have a resolution in under a month. Of course we are talking about what is making the money so of course that would be there primary incentive to get things where the players are happy.

    You can't make everybody happy but you can make a lot of people happy considering the diehard fan base of Diablo.
  • #29
    Quote from Vulmio

    It's funny how people want "communication". People don't want "communication", they want patch notes. Blizzard is communicating a lot : about the console version, fan art, etc... check the official D3 website. But this is not the "communication" you want. You want to read "Next patch will introduce those changes : ...". So don't be hypocritical, ask for patch notes and not "communication" :)


    I don't want patch notes... we already get those about as fast as possible, mainly because it's only really possible to make them once everything's nailed down.

    What I want is "here's some crap we're working on, and here's the direction we're intending to go with it", with the full understanding that Blizzard could, and often should frequently change the former and regularly adjust the latter. The thing is that it's happened before... remember D3's beta coverage? Remember how many things we saw Blizzard employees talking about that didn't actually make it into the game?

    The problem is that there are too many cerebrally deficient rage-monsters out there who will misinterpret the naturally tentative, iterative and unpredictable process of game-design as a set of OMG BORKEN PROMISES when Blizzard changes their minds and BLIZZ ARE ALL MORONS when they disagree with the rationale for same, because far too many people think software is arbitrarily mutable when they don't like it, and a contract carved into adamantium when they do. Before we know it community forums are swamped with hater circle-jerks, white-knights and every permutation of troll yelling at each other about unreleased features, and discussion about the actual existing game is relegated to page 27 just under the story about the skateboarding penguin.

    So there's that.
  • #30
    Quote from Catalept

    The problem is that there are too many cerebrally deficient rage-monsters out there who will misinterpret the naturally tentative, iterative and unpredictable process of game-design as a set of OMG BORKEN PROMISES when Blizzard changes their minds and BLIZZ ARE ALL MORONS when they disagree with the rationale for same, because far too many people think software is arbitrarily mutable when they don't like it, and a contract carved into adamantium when they do. Before we know it community forums are swamped with hater circle-jerks, white-knights and every permutation of troll yelling at each other about unreleased features, and discussion about the actual existing game is relegated to page 27 just under the story about the skateboarding penguin.


    I was once excited by a feature anounced and then canceled by Blizzard (Path of Titans in WoW) because it sounded really nice and I was really interested in it. I haven't made any post about it at all (and you can see I am not shy about posting in forums), no rage or anything, but I felt really disappointed when they decided to cancel this feature. I haven't acted as a "cerebrally deficient rage-monster" but still I was disappointed.
    What would be the point to announce tons of great stuff if then they don't release them ? Would you enjoy that ?
  • #31
    They must not fail itemization, a big part of this game's potential lies there and gearing a character without buying gold takes too much time. I'm not talking about top gear to solo MP10 in record time, but seriously just check the AH for an average WKL with LS... it's BiS but who the hell has hundreds of millions of gold without flipping items/buying gold/being very lucky at drops?

    I'm playing my monk to reach para 100, and now I know I'll be there before getting anything good enough to farm high MP (7-10).

    I like the game, and I keep playing it because I know there are many ways to improve it, but today with ~1300hrs I just spend my time in AH looking for good opportunities.

    Next patch may take many months, I don't care, but please for the love of God tell us something, we need to know what's going on, especially about something that "greatly impact many areas of the game, including core gameplay elements, and we have to work meticulously and carefully to get things right because we want to be absolutely sure that they live up to your expectations :-)".
  • #32
    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from Catalept

    The problem is that there are too many cerebrally deficient rage-monsters out there who will misinterpret the naturally tentative, iterative and unpredictable process of game-design as a set of OMG BORKEN PROMISES when Blizzard changes their minds and BLIZZ ARE ALL MORONS when they disagree with the rationale for same, because far too many people think software is arbitrarily mutable when they don't like it, and a contract carved into adamantium when they do. Before we know it community forums are swamped with hater circle-jerks, white-knights and every permutation of troll yelling at each other about unreleased features, and discussion about the actual existing game is relegated to page 27 just under the story about the skateboarding penguin.


    I was once excited by a feature anounced and then canceled by Blizzard (Path of Titans in WoW) because it sounded really nice and I was really interested in it. I haven't made any post about it at all (and you can see I am not shy about posting in forums), no rage or anything, but I felt really disappointed when they decided to cancel this feature. I haven't acted as a "cerebrally deficient rage-monster" but still I was disappointed.
    What would be the point to announce tons of great stuff if then they don't release them ? Would you enjoy that ?


    Oh I doubt it... but I'm getting too old to get particularly agitated about games, and as a software engineer myself, I'm used to the iterative process anyway.

    Having said that, I was bummed out when they ditched PoT, too. Which I suppose clinches the argument in Blizzard's favor... the loudly disappointed will clog up community discussion, the quietly disappointed will... I don't know... listen to The National with the curtains drawn? :) In the end, 'more communication' will either repeatedly reassure us of what we've already been told, or leave a trail of disappointed fans like Rhianna going on tour without a working Auto-Tune.

    Perhaps Blizzard should release ongoing development notes, but only to communities who are known to cope with disappointment well, like Democrats, or the English.
  • #33
    Quote from Catalept

    Quote from Vulmio

    Quote from Catalept

    The problem is that there are too many cerebrally deficient rage-monsters out there who will misinterpret the naturally tentative, iterative and unpredictable process of game-design as a set of OMG BORKEN PROMISES when Blizzard changes their minds and BLIZZ ARE ALL MORONS when they disagree with the rationale for same, because far too many people think software is arbitrarily mutable when they don't like it, and a contract carved into adamantium when they do. Before we know it community forums are swamped with hater circle-jerks, white-knights and every permutation of troll yelling at each other about unreleased features, and discussion about the actual existing game is relegated to page 27 just under the story about the skateboarding penguin.


    I was once excited by a feature anounced and then canceled by Blizzard (Path of Titans in WoW) because it sounded really nice and I was really interested in it. I haven't made any post about it at all (and you can see I am not shy about posting in forums), no rage or anything, but I felt really disappointed when they decided to cancel this feature. I haven't acted as a "cerebrally deficient rage-monster" but still I was disappointed.
    What would be the point to announce tons of great stuff if then they don't release them ? Would you enjoy that ?


    Oh I doubt it... but I'm getting too old to get particularly agitated about games, and as a software engineer myself, I'm used to the iterative process anyway.

    Having said that, I was bummed out when they ditched PoT, too. Which I suppose clinches the argument in Blizzard's favor... the loudly disappointed will clog up community discussion, the quietly disappointed will... I don't know... listen to The National with the curtains drawn? :) In the end, 'more communication' will either repeatedly reassure us of what we've already been told, or leave a trail of disappointed fans like Rhianna going on tour without a working Auto-Tune.

    Perhaps Blizzard should release ongoing development notes, but only to communities who are known to cope with disappointment well, like Democrats, or the English.


    So as a software engineer, you (or your company) regularly announce to your clients new features for your software, not even knowing if you will be providing them, just to communicate with them ? I'm probably not mature enough to understand, but at least I don't need more (innaccurate) communication to be reassured.
  • #34
    Quote from Vulmio

    So as a software engineer, you (or your company) regularly announce to your clients new features for your software, not even knowing if you will be providing them, just to communicate with them ? I'm probably not mature enough to understand, but at least I don't need more (innaccurate) communication to be reassured.


    Every company I've worked for has announced new features in beta software (usually through beta-testing channels, but on occasion to the larger community, when feedback and/or advanced warning is especially important), precisely so they can be tested. On top of that, certainly the last three companies I've worked for (beyond which my memory gets a little hazy) have, on occasion, removed features from beta version because the whole idea was a bust, better functionality could be achievement through other services or it just wasn't going to be ready for release. That's one of the main purposes of beta-testing. S&M (ours and, I expect, everyone else's) always chose their words carefully to avoid making any firm commitments about beta features unless the higher-ups had locked it down as a must-have.

    However, without much effort, I can also think of a few occasions where features explicitly announced for release had to be canned. Yes, there was a certain amount of backlash, but I can also state with absolute certainty that the devs involved weren't happy either (and in once case, actually angry... fun times, shan't talk about it here, lolofficepolitics). It happens, and particularly with the more technically-orientated companies, our customers understood that the announced feature-set should only be considered binding once the product actually went on sale (because, ultimately, that's also what the law says).

    It's pretty much a universal truth that marketing is all about walking the fine line between amping up expectations while making minimal concrete guarantees. This is true across the board, not just in software. We just have the added fun of people forgetting that beta is beta. Blizzard, I've noticed, are particularly careful to avoid language that commits them outright to any given features, while simultaneously fueling their hype-machine with open betas, pre-release gameplay streams/demos and all manner of headline-generators. I think if you go back, re-watch their streams and re-read their press releases, you'll find a hell of a lot of "we hope to", "we're aiming at", "here's something we're really excited about" and all kinds of coy phrases carefully chosen to avoid making firm declaratives about release features. It sucks, but it's how the marketing game works.
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