Jay Wilson: Auction Houses 'really hurt' game

  • #45
    If he felt this way. He is a coward who, couldn't as a game director, didn't even try to change the game for the better. What a failure. What a disgrace to the franchise. Pathetic.
  • #46
    Quote from WNxManiacMan

    Quote from Telsak

    How about a new feature that would let the player soulbind items to their toon. The process would make the item bound to the character or account. Once bound, the item could begin acquire exp, like the materia system in FFVII. Each item could have a single unique bonus affix that would level up like paragon levels as you gain xp with the item equipped. These item affixes would only show up as part of the soulbound thing. There would be an npc (mystic) that would assist with soulbinding/unbinding items. They would also allow you to change what affix your soulbound item currently has. Changing the affix could be done for free, but would reset the item back to 0 xp.

    Once you put up a soulbound item on the AH, a warning is shown and the item is displayed with it's base stats and if it sells it's stripped of its stats and no longer bound. The new buyer has to soulbind it to his own toon in order to start earning xp.


    Excellent idea. I would prefer a more simple idea though: Being able to enchant items, thus making them bound to character or account, for a gold price. Then it should be possible to undo the enchantment and unbind them, again for a gold price. If the undo price is high enough it can be both a gold sink and a gear sink. Either players will undo and sell on AH or just sell to vendor because the undo price is too high compared to the value of the item.


    You mean like socketing a marquise gem in your item ? :)
  • #47
    The AH/trading was never the problem, loot always has been.

    From Normal to Hell difficulties there's no AR and you don't need it but then you'd get to Inferno and you'd hit a brick wall because you needed >300AR to even farm A1 but how were you going to get AR when it only came from drops in Inferno? Many players quit at A1 Inferno because of this and the few that progressed did it thanks to trading. If you take away trading then the game dies there at A1 Inferno.

    In order for trading to be less relevant the average quality of gear needs to be raised. However there are far too few stats that we rely on so if they just raise the quality and leave everything else alone then all items start looking alike. That's why they need to (and are going to) add more good stats so that gear can still be diverse while being better on average.
  • #48
    Quote from LeChokeJames

    Quote from CheehC

    As Tyreal would say to Jay Wilson ..

    'You cannot judge blizzard. I am blizzard itself! The AH was made for more than this! To protect the innocent! But if our precious money grab binded you to inaction...then you will no longer stand as our brother. (Tyreal slays Jay Wilson)


    Translation:

    "I hate companies that make games in order to turn a profit boo hoo."


    This was made just for the likes of you, my friend:
    http://www.gamefront.com/dumb-things-fanboys-say-companies-exist-to-make-money/
  • #49
    Simple fix: Remove the Gold, keep the RMAH ! Make the normal AH a trade market.
  • #50
    AH is not the culprit.

    A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
    the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...

    There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.

    My suggestion:

    - Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).

    - Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.

    - Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.

    These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.

    This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.
    Marsh Boxer - Fair Dinkum Multiboxing...
    Quadbox MP7 Ubers Video Thread
    My Youtube Channel
  • #51
    I say they need to expand crafting to include improving current items and then once improved, make them BoA. Use Demonic Essence to improve an item like adding a socket to a weapon or improving a main stat on a set of gloves. Then once improved, that item is no longer available to the public, only to the account it was improved on. THey can't get rid of the AH as it is too well liked by many but they could bring a little more balance to the game by improving drop rates and creating more ways to make BiS items, BoA.
    "There is no cow level!"
  • #52
    Quote from MarshBoxer

    AH is not the culprit.

    A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
    the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...

    There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.

    My suggestion:

    - Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).

    - Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.

    - Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.

    These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.

    This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.


    Get out.


    Now.
  • #53
    Quote from phuzi0n

    The AH/trading was never the problem, loot always has been.

    From Normal to Hell difficulties there's no AR and you don't need it but then you'd get to Inferno and you'd hit a brick wall because you needed >300AR to even farm A1 but how were you going to get AR when it only came from drops in Inferno? Many players quit at A1 Inferno because of this and the few that progressed did it thanks to trading. If you take away trading then the game dies there at A1 Inferno.

    In order for trading to be less relevant the average quality of gear needs to be raised. However there are far too few stats that we rely on so if they just raise the quality and leave everything else alone then all items start looking alike. That's why they need to (and are going to) add more good stats so that gear can still be diverse while being better on average.


    I disagree.

    First of all the whole drop system was designed with AH in mind. So if you take away AH and redesign loot system you don't have this problem.

    That said, I personally really enjoyed super hard inferno on release. It was challenging and very cool, like no other game. Unfortunately then people started AH flipping/trading to make more money and then inferno became much easier. Also thanks to all the crybabies who were mad that they couldn't finish whole game in week, hence blizzard nerfed it so much.

    On a side note, D3 for me was all about RMAH, every better item i found i put on RMAH, it became more like a job than a game you could enjoy (like D2).
    You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
  • #55
    Do I (and many others here and elsewhere) get a prize for knowing this way before game release? no? oh well....

    I decided to play without buying items from AH (gold or real) and never regretted it.

    Hope they find a solution since AH influence on items and drop rates unfortunately affect also my gaming experience.

    Maybe they should add a different category: normal, hardcore and "no AH" characters.

    Or offline SP, but that's a dream....
  • #57
    Quote from Kblavkalash

    I disagree.

    First of all the whole drop system was designed with AH in mind. So if you take away AH and redesign loot system you don't have this problem.

    That said, I personally really enjoyed super hard inferno on release. It was challenging and very cool, like no other game. Unfortunately then people started AH flipping/trading to make more money and then inferno became much easier. Also thanks to all the crybabies who were mad that they couldn't finish whole game in week, hence blizzard nerfed it so much.

    On a side note, D3 for me was all about RMAH, every better item i found i put on RMAH, it became more like a job than a game you could enjoy (like D2).

    No, different employees said conflicting things about how drops were originally balanced and the most obvious answer is that they didn't balance or test endgame worth a damn at all.

    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/90668-jay-wilson-auction-houses-really-hurt-game/page__st__20__p__1148837#entry1148837


    There is an incredible flaw in the gear design when the final difficulty requires a stat that it only available from drops in that difficulty. They decided to nerf Inferno so that AR isn't really needed much on MP0 but the real problem is still gear progression. Stats should be offered before the content that requires them so that you have a clear progression path that doesn't involve the AH while still allowing the content to be hard if you're undergeared. One of the first patches made it possible for gear to drop at very low rates a few acts earlier so Inferno gear could drop in Hell but it was only a few % chance of dropping on top of the extremely low chances of it being any good so it was still more beneficial to just suicide repeatedly in A1 Inferno for better odds of getting >=ilvl 61 gear.

    When they rebalance gear again (in 1.0.9?) I hope that they retune the MP levels so that the lowest MP is similar to the original difficulties but that they also retune items so that you naturally find small amounts of AR towards the end of Hell difficulty.
  • #58
    I am shocked that somebody as influential on the game design would say something so stupid.

    You simply can not release a online game these days with no built in trading tool. It's not the AH that is to blame.

    Think back to the D2 days. Instead of trading ingame, you had to go to external websites which used their own made up currency. You had the same functions, just outside the game and therefore only available to those who realy searched for it. But they were there all the same.

    Back in D2, you also tried to generate wealth instead of being excized about the 5th, 10th or 100th legendary shako you found. You tradet it for runes too, which were the currency back in D2.

    Ppl who blame the state of D3 on the AH are deluding themself into thinking that D2 was much different. It was not.

    Quote from rawerpower

    Simple fix: Remove the Gold, keep the RMAH ! Make the normal AH a trade market.


    That's realy just the most stupid thing ever. Gold is only a currency, If you remove it, the players will find another one. It would just be more complicated.
  • #59
    Quote from maka

    Quote from MarshBoxer

    AH is not the culprit.

    A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
    the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...

    There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.

    My suggestion:

    - Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).

    - Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.

    - Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.

    These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.

    This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.


    Get out.


    Now.


    The AH never was a mistake. Jay Wilson, as immature and dubious as his character was, was the mistake.

    Also speaking of character, you sir have almost as many posts here as you have elite kills, I don't even know why I replied to a post as vacuous as yours.

    And all those people hailing that D2 was the bee's knees - I'm sorry it isn't, it was good for a time when people were just starting to discover there are others on the internet. The hierarchy from Pgems to Uniques to unattainable rares/crafts/runes and gamebreaking runewords was archaic and ungratifying - nevermind the very few classes that can do hell decently with self-found. If you are still so blind, that game is still there with the open arms of powerleveling hammerdinbots waiting just for you.

    Also there is the option for you to play D3 however you want - with or without AH - so if you want to wallow in your morally superior mediocrity the world doesn't care (neither does it care about all your awesome BOAs)
    Marsh Boxer - Fair Dinkum Multiboxing...
    Quadbox MP7 Ubers Video Thread
    My Youtube Channel
  • #60
    The real issue with the auction house isn't the fact that it exists. The real issue with it was how there are no "realms", like with World of Warcraft and other games where auction houses are perfectly successful and don't take away from the game. The issue is, millions upon millions of players all posting to the same place. you get literally hundreds if not thousands of the same items... basically it just floods the market because so many are selling and not as many are buying those big ticket items. Even worse was the enormous amount of absolutely junk ass shit. Just because you got a legendary and saw 300 million prices on the AH doesn't mean yours was worth 300 million, and a lot of people didn't understand that. Add to that the fact that the game was riddled with bots (easy autoit ones you don't have to pay for) for a considerable period of time, and it fucks up how much gold is worth. People claim "but you don't even have to play to get the best items". Well you still need to level to 60... and you still need to earn the gold to buy those items. If you choose to buy stuff on the RMAH... so what? I just don't see how that "ruined" the game. People just need a scapegoat, kind of like how the president of the USA is to everyone.

    I think it simply could have been handled by making things account bound once you equip, or making the highest end items bind to account/character, such as all level 60 legendary or even just legendary in general. That way the market doesn't CONTINUE to get flooded, as things are used up. (such as with World of Warcraft and other games with successful auction houses) But as it is now, every single item that goes up has the potential to be sold again at some point, and the pool of items just gets larger and larger as more drops and gets discovered... which hurts gold even more because as there are more and more items, the gold is worth less and less. Simple Supply and Demand people... Have to bind items... just have to. Things HAVE to get used up.
  • #61
    Why is Jay Wilson still allowed to even mention Diablo 3?
  • #62
    Quote from MarshBoxer

    Quote from maka

    Quote from MarshBoxer

    AH is not the culprit.

    A Highly Efficient Market is the problem -
    the excitement of real trading is the rush of exploiting market inefficiencies and discrepancies of valuation...but when you are sitting there ready to snipe the next mispriced item along with 10000 other players, its no fun. And because of these people, items will converge to a so-called agreed gold value measurable only by statistics and therefore unenjoyable. Some of us out there get paid six digit salaries to do this as their day job...

    There is a place for the convenience of AH because gear progression for your average player is difficult (not impossible) to progress through inferno without trading. But it should not be the venue to trade items at the higher end because gold is not the appropriate measure of value for the best items.

    My suggestion:

    - Add a gold-cap on AH trades (just like the RMAH).

    - Create "live-auction chat rooms" with a much higher cap.

    - Make gold decay per-account at 10% per week.

    These 3 aspects will create a much more exciting endgame trading experience, and the weekly decay cycle will ensure awesome amounts of activity in these chat rooms. The dual system will force rich players to part ways with their "good" items if they really need that cash for the next purchase...these items are depreciating anyway.

    This way noone will sit on their gold or sit on their items.


    Get out.


    Now.


    The AH never was a mistake. Jay Wilson, as immature and dubious as his character was, was the mistake.

    Also speaking of character, you sir have almost as many posts here as you have elite kills, I don't even know why I replied to a post as vacuous as yours.

    And all those people hailing that D2 was the bee's knees - I'm sorry it isn't, it was good for a time when people were just starting to discover there are others on the internet. The hierarchy from Pgems to Uniques to unattainable rares/crafts/runes and gamebreaking runewords was archaic and ungratifying - nevermind the very few classes that can do hell decently with self-found. If you are still so blind, that game is still there with the open arms of powerleveling hammerdinbots waiting just for you.

    Also there is the option for you to play D3 however you want - with or without AH - so if you want to wallow in your morally superior mediocrity the world doesn't care (neither does it care about all your awesome BOAs)



    You sir just won the thread/reply/topic/whatever you wish to call it in my eyes :D
  • #63
    Quote from Stormus

    Logged in for the first time in 6 months to post this response,

    "No shit?"


    ^ The director has admitted what many of us have been saying this whole time. Makes me want to dredge up all of those debates with the fanbois. The AH was moronic.
  • #64
    Okay, first off, they need to make a poll on the main page. That should provide them with the answer they needs to take the next step.

    I personally have no real issue with the gold auction house (other than the obscene price range), just the RMAH (which I have admittedly used from time to time because of the terrible drop rate). If both were removed, (in exchange for a better drop rate and more legendary buffs), I would be fine with that.

    If they decide to keep it the auction houses, there NEEDS to be a price cap for auctions.

    To prevent theft, I think all items being account bound when first equipped would be a good idea.
    "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."-Friedrich Nietzsche
  • #65
    I think introducing socketed armor, runes back from d2, and rune word crafting would help in making more than one currency in the game. That was a big part in d2 in crafting and trading plus it was fun to do. Might have to wait for expansion for this to come in though *WINK WINK* :D
  • #66
    Quote from MarshBoxer

    Also there is the option for you to play D3 however you want - with or without AH


    true...to a point.

    I play the game without buying stuff from AH or even getting stuff for free from friends.
    Yet drop rates are influenced by AH, since increasing drop rates would lead to flooding the AH with overpowered gear (which already happens)...and that affects my gameplay too.

    Crafting too is affected by AH, since people can buy essences and recipes they otherwise would have to find by actually playing Blizz had to try to tune its efficiency, which affects also my gameplay.

    That's why I think a "no AH" type of character would help, since it will reduce balancing issues and help game longevity.
    I'd play that way and you could play your way, both me and you will be happy.
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