so...you guys bashing blizzard for d3 not taking long enough to beat or not having an endgame...do you flood other game's forums with that kind of stuff? madden? mario kart? street fighter? how about zelda? why doesn't pong have an endgame?
d3 doesn't have a subscription. the number of hours you get in playtime far exceeds almost every other game on the market without a subscription. 99% of games are lucky to give you 20-40 hours of playing. if you've played d3 to death and beat inferno then odds are you're clocking 200, maybe 300+ hours of playing. what other game did you make a one time payment for and play that much? it can't be many.
if we were talking about a WoW peer then fine. you're paying $15/mo and i'm sure plenty of people have played WoW for thousands of hours. but that's not what diablo is.
does $60 entitle you to 7+ years of content updates and thousands upon thousands of hours of playtime? like WoW? if you truly believe that then why don't you hold the same standard to any other game that sells for $50-60?
Why do people who have already overgeared the game complain when Blizzard makes it a little easier to overgear the game? Overgearing isn't some kind of test for the uber-awesome... it's the point of the game. If not enough people are getting there, don't be suprised if Blizzard lowers the curve.
lol imagine that... the casuals are happy for nerfs.. Would of never guessed with the blizzard community.
I've been gaming for 31 years... basically non-stop. When I got Civ1, I played it for 36 hours in a row. I spent almost every weekend for years playing Quake and subsequent iterations with friends. My FFX savegame has over 200 hours logged on it. Yes, I played WoW. I have server first raid achievements (and the WLK Engineering one... which is by far my favorite).
I'm happy for the nerfs, and as a casual I would like to apologise for ruining your game
Interesting/good changes, but too little too late I'm afraid. MoP is out soon so my time wll be on that. Until then LoL and Minecraft are keeping me happy.
Try saying that without the 200mil worth of gear you bought from the AH.
I was lucky enough to find a pair of boots that I got 8mil for. I spread that wealth to boost up the three 60's I have.
I'm still struggling in A3 inferno, and have to continue to farm A2.
Maybe you get lucky on your drops, but I've found -3- legendaries since release, all of them low level.
I don't play the AH to flip items and max out on gold or anything, so the most I'll have on average is around 1 mil.
Sure makes the game a hell of a lot tougher
Why does it matter how much you invested into gear? I think there should be at least one Act where well-geared players can find a challenge, but blizzard apparently does not feel the same. If you are regular Joe struggling in inferno that means inferno must be nerfed! Nice logic
season after season in D2 i never struggled like i have compared to D3 progression, now i'm not going to put all of the blame in 1 area but really its a STRONG mixture of bad end game balancing with bad gear designing, on top of lack luster skill balancing/playability on top of pressure from the community to made a TOUGH game. No wonder soooo many people were displeased, but here was have the few hold outs, like yourself, who want to say it's fine the way it is. You don't need harder content what you need is more content, and with that content some of which needs to be harder.
What they should do is add another difficulty past inferno, one that drops the same exact gear and the monster are running around with 4 - 5 addfix's and the regular mobs should have (minor) addfixs like increased speed and extra health or improved strength. this would please the fokes who LIKE to die, play the same exact build, and love kiting mobs for days on end.
Holy crap, this is awesome. I'm so glad I didn't drop 15 mil on a new weapon and I actually feel sorry for people that dropped tons of money on one. Sounds to me that after the patch, quality weapons will be easy to come by and the super quality weapons that start dropping are going to blow the currently existing ones out of the water!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness,
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps... it is time to die.
People who think current loot system is fine are probably the ones who play the national lottery every week and think they're gonna get rich by doing so.
Jay said months before release, that WD pets will be worthwhile in Inferno. Well I almost believed it at that time. However, Blizzard needs some time to recognize its mistakes and I am glad that they did and also frustrated that it took them so long.
The issue that still stands is: there is no endgame. Just by reaching 60 and finishing off Hell I feel like I'm done. Collecting gear for characters you're never gonna make is useless. Unless you farm in order to sell the gear/gold for real money, but is this a game or a job?
This is all Diablo 2 was. And Diablo. And Titan's Quest. And Torchlight. And Borderlands (which, despite being an FPS, is an ARPG too). And DarkSpore.
What do you want? Raid content like an MMO? I think you don't understand how the genre works...
You know what everyone of the games you qouted had/has? Motivation to actually do something and ALWAYS something to look forward to and if it just was the next 4 statpoints you got or skillpoints to develop YOUR character and not play a class which is always the same, no matter what.
On top of those things, you had the items (interesting ones that is, and not simply "main stat + defensive or offensive secondary stats", charms (D2), pseudo-crafting with the Horadric cube or those orb thingies they added with the TQ addon and all sorts of nifty little things that added up to your own, unique character.
Diablo 3 has NOTHING to look forward to in terms of "little things". It's all items. And not even that, to be perfectly honest. 80%, if not more, of the items you will encounter are useless before you even identify them because they are under ilvl 62 or, if you are generous, 61. For weapons, everything below 63 is literal garbage. The less I say about legendaries at the moment, the better I think
It's true that in D2 or TQ most unique items weren't all that great either but at least you hade customization WITHIN items with Runewords and the like, making a white items with nice sockets potentially one of the best items in the game or at least an oddball for some builds.
None of this is in Diablo 3 either.
For me, Diablo 3 was fun as long as I wasn't 60. After that, you just hit a wall and that's it. Not in terms of difficulty or something but in that there is no real progression past that point. The only thing that really makes any difference is a good weapon and even those aren't that expensive to come by in the auction house, unless you want a marginally better one than your run-of-the-mill blue 2H one.
Indeed. All of this is true.
If a developer puts an end in a game that they intend for players to keep on playing - make damn sure there is something to do when the players get to that very end!
As stated before: there aren't any perfect solutions to what's faulty with all ARPG's out there, but the games that keep you going for a long time and let you customize your character along the way are the winners. As long as there is an incentive to make you keep playing the game, even if some things are slightly broken, you will keep playing it.
There are things that are better in D3 than D2 and vice versa, but it was Blizzard that connected the word 'endgame' to the Diablo franchise with D3. Why? Because they put at end to your progression. You can respec and go through inferno, all the while looking for items for the other classes. But the items you find are essentially the same as the ones you are wearing, only with a different mainstat. Not very exciting or intuitive.
Some great changes, a couple of not so great ones too though.
Invul minions is a pain, but you want difficult encounters, if you wanted everything to be easy all the time, you would just play Hell mode. Reduce it's frequency (it's already fairly rare anyway) to keep some really hard content, it was already nerfed anyway (main enemy health reduced)
Monster hp was fine as it was... as long as they removed the enrage and health regen to full.
I think monster damage should be increased if they are reducing health in this manner.
I'd really like to see champion levels, or simply level 99, but no gear requirements past 60. The tiny stat increases make farming much more worthwile, as well as a slight epeen level when you hit 95+ can be a reward in itself too. Some see that as a meaningless grind, but a lot of people see it as a minor additional reward for farming while in high level gear.
An endless dungeon would be good, all these areas in the game with only 2 levels is not Diablo-like in style, we LOVE descending down deeper and deeper (Cursed hold having 4 levels broken up into 2 segments of 2 is not this) The only thing that even looks like it was attempting to begin that direction was the trip down to Cydaea and Azmodan, but that was only a few levels and I'd consider it a mini dungeon.
What nerfs are you talking about? As far as I can see, there are no real nerfs discussed.
We’re removing Enrage Timers and the “heal back to full” behavior from Champion and Rare monster packs.
That's an incredibly huge nerf to the difficulty of the game. I haven't played as heavily as a lot of people, have only just completed Act 1 Inferno, don't have great gear. And I can tell you that this one single change will flip the switch from the game being randomly impossible to being always possible.
Apparently you've never played co-op because all that particular change does is bring single player more in line with co-op. In co-op if you die then your buddies will still be fighting the pack so they won't reset just because you died, plus you get to port back to your buddies in a few seconds instead of having to run all the way back if you're solo. I used to get 30 second rez timers when I was first progressing through inferno with my friends but it didn't matter because someone was always alive and kiting until the rest of us could rez and repairs were very cheap.
It doesn't say it explicitly but I think that the mobs normal regen still applies, just not the automatic regen to full when out of combat for ~8 seconds. If that is true then they may still significantly regen by the time you reach them. If you are truly too undergeared for the content then you will still blow lots of gold throwing yourself at it.
Most gamers whining about difficulty aren't playing with a hardcore character. If you can already faceroll Act 3 Inferno with a hardcore character, then odds are you're some no lifer who needs to spend more time outside of this game. Please move on to your next great gaming challenge, or find some tangible challenges outside of your virtual worlds. You 'hardcore' players are part of a vocal minority with serious issues so don't simply assume that your views reflect what's best for the majority of gamers and the community as a whole.
This is a monumental change for kite classes, opens up so much, now kite classes aren't limited to abilities that pierce. No those glass cannons don't have to run this type of group into a corner, and die to get them out of there paths to continue. If they indeed get rid of this, I as a kite class with deal with fast affixes.
So, in 1.0.4 we’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four.
So, in 1.0.4 we’re increasing the health of normal monsters by approximately 5%-10% in Inferno, but also increasing the likelihood they drop magic or rare items by a factor of four.
Just to clarify, we aren't making any changes to the chance that an item will drop. Instead, we're changing the quality of that item when it drops. And when we say we're increasing the likelihood that non-Elite monsters will drop magical items "by a factor of four," it means that those monsters should drop 4 times (or "4x") the amount of magical items as they do now.
So, for example, if doing a full clear of an area currently yields 500 items from non-Elites, it will still yield 500 items after 1.0.4. Whereas you may have only gotten 20 Magic (blue) items and 4 Rare (yellow) item from those non-Elites before, you’ll now get approximately 80 Magic items and 16 Rares.
This is what the patch note should read. Nothing wrong with a little laugh.
Hm. I've been looking for a way to sneak that in....
You, sir. You have ideas. And I like them.
and thanks OP for the well thought out question
Ditto! I actually just went back to the patch notes and made sure that particular line was clarified. Great question.
Is this 4-fold increase being applied to Legendaries as well?
Negative, it only affects Magic items and Rare items (apologies for the confusion).
Thank you Lylirra, for the clarification! Your replies are much appreciated. I also do apologize for the wording in the title of the other thread.
No worries! Just never do it again.
These look like a good step in the right direction. Hopefully these types of changes will bring the game up to an enjoyable place. They really need to change the way games are formed and not have them centered around quest hubs. Open ended like D2 would be better with the ability to jump from act to act/ zone to zone.
There were certainly some things that could use improvements, but nothing they changed needed to be changed.
Really?!? So champion packs with the most ridiculous combination of affixes that only one-tenth of one percent of the player base had the gear to contend with did not need to be changed? You seriously think having it this way is smart game design. Wow, stunning!
the one thing I must do now is buy legendary patterns since they say they are buffing the crafted ones with this patch :-D and hopefully weapons will not be ROFLCOPTER still for both crafted legendaries and crafted Yellows
Hopefully, one day i can play my barb as i like in a3+.
That a barb is forced to be a tank is a sacrilege in it's self. Please no comments about that already been cleared with 2H or so. I'm aware of that but the extremely expensive gear and play style you need for that is not what i want. Why shall i make my life so hard to achieve that if i have a nearly undying tank at the hardest Elite/Rare packs + enrage you can imagine, with only 16k dps its takes awhile but i don't care, i won't even die after 30 min? I want my fun and that is a big (they are too small) 2H and slaughtering through the game with skills i like and not backpedaling all the time, jump around like frog and behave like a rogue cos i know i will die in 2 hits. Ever seen a barb that behave like that in any game, book or legend? I want my bloody barb who is like Conan or so not like Spiderman (couldn't find a better example).
These notes make it more likely that i get what i want but still i have to wait for more nerfs and changes. A Hack'n'Slay shall be easy to have fun. If i want something to be challenged i leave my PC off and go outside.
You nicely summed it all up for me. This is exactly the way I prefure to play and could not give a rats about finishing the game using a sword'n'board Barb. Conan would laugh a thee whimpy shield users!
d3 doesn't have a subscription. the number of hours you get in playtime far exceeds almost every other game on the market without a subscription. 99% of games are lucky to give you 20-40 hours of playing. if you've played d3 to death and beat inferno then odds are you're clocking 200, maybe 300+ hours of playing. what other game did you make a one time payment for and play that much? it can't be many.
if we were talking about a WoW peer then fine. you're paying $15/mo and i'm sure plenty of people have played WoW for thousands of hours. but that's not what diablo is.
does $60 entitle you to 7+ years of content updates and thousands upon thousands of hours of playtime? like WoW? if you truly believe that then why don't you hold the same standard to any other game that sells for $50-60?
I've been gaming for 31 years... basically non-stop. When I got Civ1, I played it for 36 hours in a row. I spent almost every weekend for years playing Quake and subsequent iterations with friends. My FFX savegame has over 200 hours logged on it. Yes, I played WoW. I have server first raid achievements (and the WLK Engineering one... which is by far my favorite).
I'm happy for the nerfs, and as a casual I would like to apologise for ruining your game
season after season in D2 i never struggled like i have compared to D3 progression, now i'm not going to put all of the blame in 1 area but really its a STRONG mixture of bad end game balancing with bad gear designing, on top of lack luster skill balancing/playability on top of pressure from the community to made a TOUGH game. No wonder soooo many people were displeased, but here was have the few hold outs, like yourself, who want to say it's fine the way it is. You don't need harder content what you need is more content, and with that content some of which needs to be harder.
What they should do is add another difficulty past inferno, one that drops the same exact gear and the monster are running around with 4 - 5 addfix's and the regular mobs should have (minor) addfixs like increased speed and extra health or improved strength. this would please the fokes who LIKE to die, play the same exact build, and love kiting mobs for days on end.
Step 2: Have enough people working to make a good job... Still waiting on a more human work load.
Bringing torment and pain to others.
Your damned soul wallowing in your sin.
Perhaps...
it is time to die.
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Curse PremiumIndeed. All of this is true.
If a developer puts an end in a game that they intend for players to keep on playing - make damn sure there is something to do when the players get to that very end!
As stated before: there aren't any perfect solutions to what's faulty with all ARPG's out there, but the games that keep you going for a long time and let you customize your character along the way are the winners. As long as there is an incentive to make you keep playing the game, even if some things are slightly broken, you will keep playing it.
There are things that are better in D3 than D2 and vice versa, but it was Blizzard that connected the word 'endgame' to the Diablo franchise with D3. Why? Because they put at end to your progression. You can respec and go through inferno, all the while looking for items for the other classes. But the items you find are essentially the same as the ones you are wearing, only with a different mainstat. Not very exciting or intuitive.
Invul minions is a pain, but you want difficult encounters, if you wanted everything to be easy all the time, you would just play Hell mode. Reduce it's frequency (it's already fairly rare anyway) to keep some really hard content, it was already nerfed anyway (main enemy health reduced)
Monster hp was fine as it was... as long as they removed the enrage and health regen to full.
I think monster damage should be increased if they are reducing health in this manner.
I'd really like to see champion levels, or simply level 99, but no gear requirements past 60. The tiny stat increases make farming much more worthwile, as well as a slight epeen level when you hit 95+ can be a reward in itself too. Some see that as a meaningless grind, but a lot of people see it as a minor additional reward for farming while in high level gear.
An endless dungeon would be good, all these areas in the game with only 2 levels is not Diablo-like in style, we LOVE descending down deeper and deeper (Cursed hold having 4 levels broken up into 2 segments of 2 is not this) The only thing that even looks like it was attempting to begin that direction was the trip down to Cydaea and Azmodan, but that was only a few levels and I'd consider it a mini dungeon.
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Curse PremiumIt doesn't say it explicitly but I think that the mobs normal regen still applies, just not the automatic regen to full when out of combat for ~8 seconds. If that is true then they may still significantly regen by the time you reach them. If you are truly too undergeared for the content then you will still blow lots of gold throwing yourself at it.
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Curse PremiumThis is a monumental change for kite classes, opens up so much, now kite classes aren't limited to abilities that pierce. No those glass cannons don't have to run this type of group into a corner, and die to get them out of there paths to continue. If they indeed get rid of this, I as a kite class with deal with fast affixes.
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Curse PremiumWhat does this mean, "by a factor of four"???
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AdministratorOriginally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
So, for example, if doing a full clear of an area currently yields 500 items from non-Elites, it will still yield 500 items after 1.0.4. Whereas you may have only gotten 20 Magic (blue) items and 4 Rare (yellow) item from those non-Elites before, you’ll now get approximately 80 Magic items and 16 Rares.
Hope that helps!
(Next "Blizz" Post: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6308611241?page=3#60)
This is what the patch note should read. Nothing wrong with a little laugh.
Hm. I've been looking for a way to sneak that in....
You, sir. You have ideas. And I like them.
and thanks OP for the well thought out question
Ditto! I actually just went back to the patch notes and made sure that particular line was clarified. Great question.
Is this 4-fold increase being applied to Legendaries as well?
Negative, it only affects Magic items and Rare items (apologies for the confusion).
Thank you Lylirra, for the clarification! Your replies are much appreciated. I also do apologize for the wording in the title of the other thread.
No worries! Just never do it again.
*makes the "I'm watching you" gesture*
Really?!? So champion packs with the most ridiculous combination of affixes that only one-tenth of one percent of the player base had the gear to contend with did not need to be changed? You seriously think having it this way is smart game design. Wow, stunning!
You nicely summed it all up for me. This is exactly the way I prefure to play and could not give a rats about finishing the game using a sword'n'board Barb. Conan would laugh a thee whimpy shield users!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Mim-1229/hero/8941607