But nerfing monsters and buffing skills/items/MF will just make the game too easy, isn't it?
IMHO, I think striking the sweep spot of easy vs hard is almost impossible, as it varies from person to person.
True, there's going to be a wide skill variance in any game. Ultimately not everyone is going to be happy so they'll try to make as many people happy as they can, as that'll bring in the most cash.
i like most of the changes. but whith monster not regaining HP if you runaway from em (aside from there self hp regen) there is no point in nerfing thier HP, atleast not in act 1 and 2.
increase in HP on white mobs is a good thing as they will feel meater this way, but i think 5-10% is way to little for act 1 and 2 where they feel like nothing, this along with added drop rates. it might be fun to kill whites instead of just running for the champs/rares.
i dont know if the keep all your MF for your self is a good thing tho. would rather have give away 50% of my MF put it in a pot and deal that pot to all players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
IMHO, I think striking the sweep spot of easy vs hard is almost impossible, as it varies from person to person.
True, there's going to be a wide skill variance in any game. Ultimately not everyone is going to be happy so they'll try to make as many people happy as they can, as that'll bring in the most cash.
Indeed. Though those who already own the game already paid. But if players get more and better items easier, they'll probably use the AH more. So yeah, keep most of 'em happy, and they'll keep playing (and paying).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
IE. is the +75% based on the monsters base hp in a 1 player game, or is it +75% from its current hp?
B - the 75% is from the base hp.
So now in an inferno 4 player game the 1 hp monster would have 1+(3*1.1) = 4.3 hp, and after the patch 3.25 hp.
That would make inferno ~32% easier?
And on top of this they reduce elite packs hp..
In 1 player game monster had X hp. If additional player joins then monster HP is X * 1.75, if one more joins it's X * 1.75 * 1.75. That's how i understand it.
nope its X * (1,75+(0,75*(Y-1)))
where X is monster health and Y is the number of players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
IE. is the +75% based on the monsters base hp in a 1 player game, or is it +75% from its current hp?
In 1 player game monster had X hp. If additional player joins then monster HP is X * 1.75, if one more joins it's X * 1.75 * 1.75. That's how i understand it.
Incorrect.
1 player: X
2 players: X * (1 + 0.75)
3 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75)
4 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75)
In 1 player game monster had X hp. If additional player joins then monster HP is X * 1.75, if one more joins it's X * 1.75 * 1.75. That's how i understand it.
nope its X * (1,75+(0,75*(Y-1)))
where X is monster health and Y is the number of players.
Of course this post will come with many many people saying "They said inferno would be hard, now its nerfed to the ground!"
Well.. I agree somewhat, but when you read between the lines, I think what they are actually saying is this:
"Look guys, inferno was a bad idea - we meant it to be a flat always hard difficutly, we found out that wouldn't work in testing, but we knew we couldn't remove it because people would have a fit if we removed ANOTHER feature. A side problem was our original intent for END GAME was inferno - well with inferno not working out how we wan't we no longer have an end game - but we're working on that. Here are some changes to make the game play more like it should with out the concept of inferno - stay tuned for more changes to totally fix the game"
Thats what I read. I think the part of me that wants to see a hard game is sad at how easy a time I'll have on my monk in Inferno - It will be face melting hilarity.. but then.. thats what D2 was and I loved it! I don't need 5 min champ pack fights - I need fun REWARDING demon melting fun. I think this all sounds like a good first step to that goal.
The Weapon Damage on i lvl 61-62 increase thing is AWESOME. Not only will it make finding weapons more exciting, it will make crafting weapons worthwhile.
So, this is a great first step - I feel like this hits the nail on the head as far as a "look the game is messed up, we can't make it perfect fast (ie in 1 patch) but we are doing these things to make it as good as possible in its current state"
Bravo imo - looking forward to playing again.
You are very much correct, good sir.
It is now obvious that Inferno failed as a solution for end game. And they are very aware of that. So I'm guessing they will be implementing some really big stuff in the future to address that issue, and are for now just lowering the overall difficulty of the mode to make it feel like more of a natural progression from Hell, without the huge increase in monster health and damage.
As I am fairly certain that PvP is not the thing they are looking at to replace Inferno as end game, I'll be looking forward to the next months to see what have they come up with. Patch 1.0.4 seems like a necessary first step towards something completely different that is just starting too loom on the horizon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
IE. is the +75% based on the monsters base hp in a 1 player game, or is it +75% from its current hp?
In 1 player game monster had X hp. If additional player joins then monster HP is X * 1.75, if one more joins it's X * 1.75 * 1.75. That's how i understand it.
Incorrect.
1 player: X
2 players: X * (1 + 0.75)
3 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75)
4 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75)
yeah you are right, actually that's what i wanted to say but failed Two players, it's *1.75, three it's *2.5, etc...
Man, if it was multiplicative like you had... wooo buddy!
In 1 player game monster had X hp. If additional player joins then monster HP is X * 1.75, if one more joins it's X * 1.75 * 1.75. That's how i understand it.
nope its X * (1,75+(0,75*(Y-1)))
where X is monster health and Y is the number of players.
Wrong.
X * (1 + (0.75 * (Y-1)))
ok you got me i fail at math ;P.
anyway.
most of the hard core player that wannted to play this game has already played trought it and left what is left now is the players how want to be best and farm act 3 in faster and faster times, and the casual players that are struggling to make it trought the game.
also if farming becomes a bit easyer you will get more loot that you can own with in the arena when it comes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Rather upsetting changes, I feel like I am playing WoW with all these nerfs I can't be the only one who thinks this game is in a really good spot. Oh well
What nerfs are you talking about? As far as I can see, there are no real nerfs discussed. Nothing that didn't need to be changed since the game's release anyway.
Less health on champs/rare
Less repair cost
No enrage timer
No more resetting health
No more invulnerable minions
And certain affixes will be "changed" Which mentioning fire chains + shielding leads to more nerfing.
I know I can be elitist at times, but still, the more challenging a game, the more rewarding it feels completing it.
These nerfs just seem so unnecessary.
I played WoW back in Burning Crusade and cleared Black Temple way before the multitude of nerfs and auto-access to all raids. Illidan was very hard every time we faced him. Many wipes occurred.
BUT, D3 is not WoW. After a certain gear-level you are not supposed to die 4-5 times on a rare monster (or have to skip certain mobs). That is ridiculous. I have already cleared Inferno on my Wizard, but farming Act 3 is very frustrating. Certain affix-combinations on certain mobs just have me running the other way.
There is a difference from dying because of a good game mechanic/difficulty, and dying from cheap deaths. Good job blizzard!
Rather upsetting changes, I feel like I am playing WoW with all these nerfs I can't be the only one who thinks this game is in a really good spot. Oh well
What nerfs are you talking about? As far as I can see, there are no real nerfs discussed. Nothing that didn't need to be changed since the game's release anyway.
Monster health will now be a flat increase of 75% health (per player), regardless of the difficulty in multiplayer.
No more enrage timers on elites.
Elites will no longer heal to full health
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions
All of those are nerfs. I dont know why they are making it a 75% hp buff per player. thats a HUGE nerf. Playing with 2 ior more people will be way easier that it was now. They should just make it 100%...
The issue that still stands is: there is no endgame. Just by reaching 60 and finishing off Hell I feel like I'm done. Collecting gear for characters you're never gonna make is useless. Unless you farm in order to sell the gear/gold for real money, but is this a game or a job?
This is all Diablo 2 was. And Diablo. And Titan's Quest. And Torchlight. And Borderlands (which, despite being an FPS, is an ARPG too). And DarkSpore.
What do you want? Raid content like an MMO? I think you don't understand how the genre works...
Indeed, the very basic concept is the same. You level up a character, you find items to slap on that very character, another character, or you trade them. You repeat that process ad infinitum until you either die or get bored and go about your life in another manner.
What D3 has, that all the other games doesn't(the benefits are arguable) is a stop in progress, or what could also be called endgame.
D2 has lvl99, nigh impossible to reach, and great diversity when it comes to viable builds and items. Reaching lvl60 in D3 is far too easy, and as you can change specs on the spot, and items are bland and doesn't add anything in particular to the gameplay, the need to create several characters is out of question. It's a solution to NOT having to replay the game and level up a new character like you had to in D2, but then again it removes some replayability.
D3 removed most of what was actually annoying about D2, but many of those things actually added to the longevity of the game. We can only hope Blizzard comes up with some awesome solutions, but in reality there aren't any perfect ARPG's.
Raids? Are you high or just stupid? Kids these days. Keep that act up and you'll end up with a broken nose and a boot where you poop from. Go back to the dark pit from whence you came!
Pre launch: "You are going to die, we double the difficulty of inferno" Few _weeks_ after launch: Meh, to hard. Kids cant do it. 40% NERF HOOOOOOO 1.0.4: We have made the game lol easy but then we DOUBLED the nerfs.
IDIOTS.. you had one chance to fix it and you remove all challange and makes it a kid game. There will be nothing to do.. Kids farming good stuff and trying to become millionairs of RMAH
...
All you involved with diablo 3 should be fired INSTANTLY. Idiots, incompetant idiots. Go home, rethink your life and never ever touch a game development again.
I had hopes that 1.0.4 would rly be the thing that brought d3 back to me. It wont be. Im out.
Thank God.... you hardcores ruined D3 for me so badly. D2 was amazing, D3 was slamming your head against the wall until it busted open... (your head, not the wall). One of my most anticipating games ever and it was completely ruined due to people with no lives crying. I don't think i've ever been so angry with the hardcore community, especially as they cried even more claiming it was still to easy. Clearly they will never be satisfied as they will cry when something is to hard for them to beat (like what happened with Yogg+0 in WoW where the hardcore community literally gave up and cried to blizzard about it being to hard), and than they will cry whenever they beat it claiming it was to easy.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YES GOD YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU GOD YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now maybe i'll never have to rage quit agents the act for corrupted angels with shield and other addfix that make them broken as hell!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
True, there's going to be a wide skill variance in any game. Ultimately not everyone is going to be happy so they'll try to make as many people happy as they can, as that'll bring in the most cash.
OT: Some of these changes I love, especially MF and GF not being shared in groups.
increase in HP on white mobs is a good thing as they will feel meater this way, but i think 5-10% is way to little for act 1 and 2 where they feel like nothing, this along with added drop rates. it might be fun to kill whites instead of just running for the champs/rares.
i dont know if the keep all your MF for your self is a good thing tho. would rather have give away 50% of my MF put it in a pot and deal that pot to all players.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Correct. Co-op play is going to be lulz.
nope its X * (1,75+(0,75*(Y-1)))
where X is monster health and Y is the number of players.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Incorrect.
1 player: X
2 players: X * (1 + 0.75)
3 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75)
4 players: X * (1 + 0.75 + 0.75 + 0.75)
Wrong.
X * (1 + (0.75 * (Y-1)))
You are very much correct, good sir.
It is now obvious that Inferno failed as a solution for end game. And they are very aware of that. So I'm guessing they will be implementing some really big stuff in the future to address that issue, and are for now just lowering the overall difficulty of the mode to make it feel like more of a natural progression from Hell, without the huge increase in monster health and damage.
As I am fairly certain that PvP is not the thing they are looking at to replace Inferno as end game, I'll be looking forward to the next months to see what have they come up with. Patch 1.0.4 seems like a necessary first step towards something completely different that is just starting too loom on the horizon.
Man, if it was multiplicative like you had... wooo buddy!
ok you got me i fail at math ;P.
anyway.
most of the hard core player that wannted to play this game has already played trought it and left what is left now is the players how want to be best and farm act 3 in faster and faster times, and the casual players that are struggling to make it trought the game.
also if farming becomes a bit easyer you will get more loot that you can own with in the arena when it comes.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
Less health on champs/rare
Less repair cost
No enrage timer
No more resetting health
No more invulnerable minions
And certain affixes will be "changed" Which mentioning fire chains + shielding leads to more nerfing.
I know I can be elitist at times, but still, the more challenging a game, the more rewarding it feels completing it.
These nerfs just seem so unnecessary.
I played WoW back in Burning Crusade and cleared Black Temple way before the multitude of nerfs and auto-access to all raids. Illidan was very hard every time we faced him. Many wipes occurred.
BUT, D3 is not WoW. After a certain gear-level you are not supposed to die 4-5 times on a rare monster (or have to skip certain mobs). That is ridiculous. I have already cleared Inferno on my Wizard, but farming Act 3 is very frustrating. Certain affix-combinations on certain mobs just have me running the other way.
There is a difference from dying because of a good game mechanic/difficulty, and dying from cheap deaths. Good job blizzard!
Indeed, the very basic concept is the same. You level up a character, you find items to slap on that very character, another character, or you trade them. You repeat that process ad infinitum until you either die or get bored and go about your life in another manner.
What D3 has, that all the other games doesn't(the benefits are arguable) is a stop in progress, or what could also be called endgame.
D2 has lvl99, nigh impossible to reach, and great diversity when it comes to viable builds and items. Reaching lvl60 in D3 is far too easy, and as you can change specs on the spot, and items are bland and doesn't add anything in particular to the gameplay, the need to create several characters is out of question. It's a solution to NOT having to replay the game and level up a new character like you had to in D2, but then again it removes some replayability.
D3 removed most of what was actually annoying about D2, but many of those things actually added to the longevity of the game. We can only hope Blizzard comes up with some awesome solutions, but in reality there aren't any perfect ARPG's.
Raids? Are you high or just stupid? Kids these days. Keep that act up and you'll end up with a broken nose and a boot where you poop from. Go back to the dark pit from whence you came!
Thank God.... you hardcores ruined D3 for me so badly. D2 was amazing, D3 was slamming your head against the wall until it busted open... (your head, not the wall). One of my most anticipating games ever and it was completely ruined due to people with no lives crying. I don't think i've ever been so angry with the hardcore community, especially as they cried even more claiming it was still to easy. Clearly they will never be satisfied as they will cry when something is to hard for them to beat (like what happened with Yogg+0 in WoW where the hardcore community literally gave up and cried to blizzard about it being to hard), and than they will cry whenever they beat it claiming it was to easy.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YES GOD YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU GOD YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now maybe i'll never have to rage quit agents the act for corrupted angels with shield and other addfix that make them broken as hell!