I don't think you understand my point, please read my previous post: I'm not (and others shouldn't sanely be) defending the notion that there shouldn't be a toggle to always show Advanced tool-tips. I'm defending the design decision of introducing simplified tool-tips.
Please don't mix the two up.
I'm also fine with them having an option for simplified tooltips. I was merely raging at the retarded example given by the blue poster. "My grandma couldn't understand the game, so that's proof that we need simplified tooltips". It's like Blizz still don't know who they are aiming their games for.
"Attack a single target with a series of rapid punches"
...is a little cleaner and easier to understand at a glance than:
"Unleash a series of extremely fast punches that deal 100% weapon damage."
oh my god, no its not better, "Attack a single target with a series of rapid punches" doesn't give any useful information, what you want to know is: WHAT DAMAGE DOES THIS ATTACK DO? An attack deals dmg but HOW MUCH WEAPON DMG?50% weapon dmg or 100 or 180 or what?
THEN HOLD ALT!!! (see I can yell in caps too) FFS you people lol, it's not a huge deal.
So the loot will be for each player, and I really appreciate it since I lost so many items long ago for Pickit players lol...
But I have a question and not sure if this question was already answered, how will work the MF stuff? will it work for each player individual or some kind of math between all the players in party?
Thanks
Since each player sees individual loot drops it's fairly obvious to assume that each player's MF applies individually to that player's drops.
Yet. It has been suggested to make an option to toggle this on or off (simplified tooltips will be on as standard) , and and a blue said it'll be brought up to the designers.
Unless it has changed this has been answered a few times in the past: the person who last hits the enemy gets their MF applied to it for everyone's drops. It's one of those awkward issues due to the new looting scheme. I wouldn't be surprised if later on groups end up going with 3 people going for max DPS and one with max MF to last hit bosses.
It doesn't change a thing compared to D2. If you were in a Baal-run and got last hit on him, it was your MF that was applied to the drop as well. The only thing that changed is that there will be no competition to be the first to grab something.
Having 3 Max DPS and 1 Max MF char as a setup is no different either. My friends and I already did this in D2. One of us was so loaded on MF that he couldn't handle bosses by himself, but he was given last hit. The only thing that in D3 it'll be a smaller team.
From what I recall, your MF is related to only YOUR drops. You're MF doesn't effect others. So running with 1 person decked in MF in inferno will hinder you, since inferno is going to kick your ass, being down 1 dps will slow you down considerably, making the group that has all 4 dps the better farmers =D The trick is to balance everyone's dps with MF for the best results.
So the loot will be for each player, and I really appreciate it since I lost so many items long ago for Pickit players lol...
But I have a question and not sure if this question was already answered, how will work the MF stuff? will it work for each player individual or some kind of math between all the players in party?
Thanks
Unless it has changed this has been answered a few times in the past: the person who last hits the enemy gets their MF applied to it for everyone's drops. It's one of those awkward issues due to the new looting scheme. I wouldn't be surprised if later on groups end up going with 3 people going for max DPS and one with max MF to last hit bosses.
Wowowo this is not true at all, that is d2.
your own magic find effects the items, someone else will ne'er effect yours.
When items drop, it calculates YOUR magic find, and then displays the items for you.
You have your statistics backwards, more than 50% don't even go past normal in d2
In legacy forums bash gave us a %
Most users WILL be using these, we are not most users if we are following the game like we are already.
They wouldn't just do this Either without statistics of people not understanding.
The simple tool tips are a good idea I think.
If they don't allow us to switch it tho, I'll be pissed, but I have a feeling that option is coming. It better be
( oh phone please ignore odd words I think I got them all)
I have to wonder if I am the only one put off by the thought that this game, and its design changes, are possibly being influenced in some way by the desire to make it simple enough for mothers and grandmothers........No offense, but is this really what we are after? This isn't farmville, words with friends, or indeed any other casual game played on FB to fill in time - it is mean't to be a game that die hard fans, and less die hard fans, or at least 'gamers' have been waiting years for. I don't like the idea that D3 is somehow being touted as the intro game for those wanting to learn how to play action RPGs.
I talked to a few much older gamers in WoW a couple of months ago when I was leveling a character to kill some time. We're talking casual players such as adults from 40-60 that enjoy WoW for a number of reasons. I mentioned Diablo 3 to them and they started asking me questions about it and I was explaining to them a handful of things they are changing about the game and about the content in the beta right now.
I gave them comparison about tooltips and what we have as boss fights to the same features and content they have in WoW. After I gave them those comparisons,they all gave me the same response:
"That kinda sounds boring and easy. I might just stick with WoW then."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
"I think you're grossly exaggerating how confused a new player has the potential to be."
This. Anyone who has passed the 3rd grade knows that 90% damage is > 60% damage. I don't see why they wouldn't leave damage %'s in for "noobs", how else would they know that the skill they just received upon leveling is stronger than their previous skills or not?
A noob would be more likely to mistake a newer skill to be stronger if not shown the actual numbers, than be confused by the apparently "difficult" concept of 3rd grade mathematics <_<
(If you can't do simple math, you don't deserve to play RPGs...)
They don't and can't know that, and the same applies to you. Yes, I made an assumption earlier, but you're stating it as fact.
Also, even if you don't go past Normal, it doesn't mean squat. You might not go past Normal because you think it's stupid to play the game again with the same char, so you create a new one and off you go to play Normal again, with a different char. So, you never went past Normal, but you've played Normal loads of times. You're not exactly gonna need the simple tooltips.
I think a lot of people are getting frustrated over this issue because it feels like their justification for a lot of controversial (to use a charitable term) changes has been that "It makes the game better for people that never touched a mouse/keyboard in their lives". And it's starting to be too much.
What so you mean they don't and can't know?
They do research, the have people come and get feedback and just that part of a system. They also have wow to go off of, they can get info from who uses them and who does not.
Your right I don't have the statistics myself either, but I do know the info about a massive amount of players don't even play past normal, they don't care about extra info, it just adds complexity to something thy don't care about.
If that's 80% ofthe playerbase (or w/e %) then why wouldn't they make a change likethat. However as I already said , I'm only understanding of it as long as we get our toggle option. Otherwise, oh, you have no seen rage =p
But we pretty much know they will be adding an option.
There is also currently no loot management in place in Diablo III. If you were player two and you wanted that legendary bow, you would need to talk with that player one and hope that they are willing to trade it to you for either a price or even for free if you are lucky : )
But say Player 1 is more advanced and wealthy than Player 2 and has no need to even bother picking up the "legendary bow."
Unless P1 spoke up out of the goodness of his heart, P2 would never even know about the "legendary bow" that dropped.
P1 doesn't need the item, and doesn't care if P2 needs it (let's face it, not everyone will care), so the item goes to waste and disappears into the void of forgotten items with my old nerf guns and batman action figures.
Could there be some sort of in-game message that is displayed for everyone in the chat pane when Legendary/Uniques and Set Items drop:
"Player 1 has uncovered a Legendary Bow."
I'm no game designer, and I trust the D3 dev team, but I think that this would encourage player interaction and cooperation.
It also would wipe away the constant feeling that that shiny new item that you really need right now just dropped for someone else, but you'll never know.
I think that if you include a feature like that, there would be NO downside to the new loot system. Anyone else feel strongly about this?
I sort of like your idea but I don't think the scenario you are speaking of will come to pass. At least, not usually. True, in Daiblo 2 and 1, there would be situations where you simply wouldn't care about an item because your gear is so much more powerful so you would leave it but with the addition of the auction house, it would be sort of silly to pass up on something you are sure some one else could use (and thus, pay you gold/money so you could purchase something that will directly benifit you).
Also, because of the auction house, I think that your suggestion would cause more harm than good as one of your party members might feel insulted that you would rather sell the item then help them out. But then again, the same would apply to them so I guess it could even out.
Sorry, the only thing I can ever, ever answer to the simple tooltip is the common thing that governments love to do with our children:
Treat them like morons, they turn out like morons.
Simplifying things for the sake of a dumb ass that can't figure out or just TRY to figure out for more than 10 seconds a simple concept is such a moronic concept. Next we'll know, kids won't even learn to read. That shit is hard, dude. Don't strain their fucking brain.
Sorry, but that concept which I see everywhere in real life pisses me off. And to be clear, this is more about the justification they give than the actual tooltips. "We're doing this for idiots" is what they told us.
It's official: you're my kind of people.
By the way, what are they going to do to the skills when the player adds a rune to it?
Made up example:
Non-runed: Shoot lightning at enemies.
Crimson runed: Shoot red lightning at enemies.
Indigo runed: Shoot blue lightning at enemies.
Golden runed: Shoot lightning at enemies that also heals you.
Alabaster runed: Shoot bigger lightning.
You might say that a player will have already toggled advanced details by the time they start using runes. I happen to know a lot of people who like to play single player, and though there isn't a single player (offline) mode in Diablo III, those people will probably solo through the whole game the entire time they play. Who's going to tell them about toggling the details? It's really going to suck for them when they get really far and don't know that there's a toggle button in the settings of the game, forcing them to say "screw this game" and quitting because it's counter-intuitive.
To hell with the CTRL button idea. The only way I could be satisfied with simple details being default in the game is if they add a toggle button specifically to the skills screen. I doubt it would take up too much space and would be a simple addition to the UI.
Could there be some sort of in-game message that is displayed for everyone in the chat pane when Legendary/Uniques and Set Items drop:
"Player 1 has uncovered a Legendary Bow."
It may have the chance of increasing player trading outside of the AH, but there is also a downside to it. Assessing the situation honestly, how long do you think it would until a person gets fed up with not getting the drops he wants for himself and additionally having other people's luck constantly rubbed in his face? At this point, even the D2 looting system was better; as long as you could react faster than other people and their pick-it, at least you had a shot of getting items that actually dropped.
In addition to that, it also depends on how the MF mechanic works. I think (I'm not sure) it works like this: your own drops are affect by your own MF. If you're in a game with a Wiz that is doing noticably less damage than you but consistently getting better drops, it creates bad blood when the other players are consistently reminded of that.
The way it works right now is better because it doesn't create drama. While you will never know if someone found an item you could actually use, at least it'll be safe to assume that it will be posted on the AH unless he doesn't already have intentions for that item. That goes the other way as well; with you finding items and selling them. Besides, people who are genuinely interested in helping you out will ask you if you need the item he just found but can't use.
Well, as far as MF goes, from what I read it will be the MF of the person to last-hit the boss/mob that will apply for all other players. As some one else suggested earlier, there very well may be teams of people who designate one as the MFer and the others as DPS and let the MFer get the last hits. I am not totally sure about this though so I could be completely wrong.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm also fine with them having an option for simplified tooltips. I was merely raging at the retarded example given by the blue poster. "My grandma couldn't understand the game, so that's proof that we need simplified tooltips". It's like Blizz still don't know who they are aiming their games for.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumSince each player sees individual loot drops it's fairly obvious to assume that each player's MF applies individually to that player's drops.
From what I recall, your MF is related to only YOUR drops. You're MF doesn't effect others. So running with 1 person decked in MF in inferno will hinder you, since inferno is going to kick your ass, being down 1 dps will slow you down considerably, making the group that has all 4 dps the better farmers =D The trick is to balance everyone's dps with MF for the best results.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
AdministratorWowowo this is not true at all, that is d2.
your own magic find effects the items, someone else will ne'er effect yours.
When items drop, it calculates YOUR magic find, and then displays the items for you.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
AdministratorIn legacy forums bash gave us a %
Most users WILL be using these, we are not most users if we are following the game like we are already.
They wouldn't just do this Either without statistics of people not understanding.
The simple tool tips are a good idea I think.
If they don't allow us to switch it tho, I'll be pissed, but I have a feeling that option is coming. It better be
( oh phone please ignore odd words I think I got them all)
But in general, plz, don't copy the stupid "noob system" from WoW.
Fusion with activision is a epic fail.
Profit in the short term, long-term death.
I talked to a few much older gamers in WoW a couple of months ago when I was leveling a character to kill some time. We're talking casual players such as adults from 40-60 that enjoy WoW for a number of reasons. I mentioned Diablo 3 to them and they started asking me questions about it and I was explaining to them a handful of things they are changing about the game and about the content in the beta right now.
I gave them comparison about tooltips and what we have as boss fights to the same features and content they have in WoW. After I gave them those comparisons,they all gave me the same response:
"That kinda sounds boring and easy. I might just stick with WoW then."
This. Anyone who has passed the 3rd grade knows that 90% damage is > 60% damage. I don't see why they wouldn't leave damage %'s in for "noobs", how else would they know that the skill they just received upon leveling is stronger than their previous skills or not?
A noob would be more likely to mistake a newer skill to be stronger if not shown the actual numbers, than be confused by the apparently "difficult" concept of 3rd grade mathematics <_<
(If you can't do simple math, you don't deserve to play RPGs...)
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
AdministratorThey do research, the have people come and get feedback and just that part of a system. They also have wow to go off of, they can get info from who uses them and who does not.
Your right I don't have the statistics myself either, but I do know the info about a massive amount of players don't even play past normal, they don't care about extra info, it just adds complexity to something thy don't care about.
If that's 80% ofthe playerbase (or w/e %) then why wouldn't they make a change likethat. However as I already said , I'm only understanding of it as long as we get our toggle option. Otherwise, oh, you have no seen rage =p
But we pretty much know they will be adding an option.
I sort of like your idea but I don't think the scenario you are speaking of will come to pass. At least, not usually. True, in Daiblo 2 and 1, there would be situations where you simply wouldn't care about an item because your gear is so much more powerful so you would leave it but with the addition of the auction house, it would be sort of silly to pass up on something you are sure some one else could use (and thus, pay you gold/money so you could purchase something that will directly benifit you).
Also, because of the auction house, I think that your suggestion would cause more harm than good as one of your party members might feel insulted that you would rather sell the item then help them out. But then again, the same would apply to them so I guess it could even out.
It's official: you're my kind of people.
By the way, what are they going to do to the skills when the player adds a rune to it?
Made up example:
Non-runed: Shoot lightning at enemies.
Crimson runed: Shoot red lightning at enemies.
Indigo runed: Shoot blue lightning at enemies.
Golden runed: Shoot lightning at enemies that also heals you.
Alabaster runed: Shoot bigger lightning.
You might say that a player will have already toggled advanced details by the time they start using runes. I happen to know a lot of people who like to play single player, and though there isn't a single player (offline) mode in Diablo III, those people will probably solo through the whole game the entire time they play. Who's going to tell them about toggling the details? It's really going to suck for them when they get really far and don't know that there's a toggle button in the settings of the game, forcing them to say "screw this game" and quitting because it's counter-intuitive.
To hell with the CTRL button idea. The only way I could be satisfied with simple details being default in the game is if they add a toggle button specifically to the skills screen. I doubt it would take up too much space and would be a simple addition to the UI.
Well, as far as MF goes, from what I read it will be the MF of the person to last-hit the boss/mob that will apply for all other players. As some one else suggested earlier, there very well may be teams of people who designate one as the MFer and the others as DPS and let the MFer get the last hits. I am not totally sure about this though so I could be completely wrong.