The Great Flood

  • #21
    Great write up! Thanks!
  • #22
    Quote from peasofme

    i hate when people say the fans made blizzard, the fans made ufc, the fans made capcom. no, the fans didn't make blizzard. they made themselves by making amazing games. blizzard actually made you. so be a little more respectful you ungrateful little brats.


    What astounding ignorance.

    What's makes a game great and successful? The fans that buy it.

    Why is Blizzard such a large, rich game developer? Because the fans give them their money.

    Why does Blizzcon sell out in five seconds every year? Because the fans have a strong desire to go.

    You might think Blizz would be great even if they had no fans or customers, but you'd be just as wrong as you think everyone else is being.

    Next time, think before you speak.
  • #23
    What astounding ignorance.

    What's makes a game great and successful? the people who made it.

    Why is Blizzard such a large, rich game developer? Because they make amazing games.

    Why does Blizzcon sell out in five seconds every year? Because they make amazing games.

    Next time, think before you speak.
  • #24
    Blizzard generates games, fans generate revenue. These work together nicely.
  • #25
    Great post, it really puts a lot into perspective in such few paragraphs.

    Quote from sXing

    seriously if it was up to me, I would make every weapon/armor in the game bind to the user account, that way you would be able to use the shared stash for your other chars but couldnt trade with others

    THAT would be the right solution, so even 3rd party sites couldn sell stuff anymore


    Imagine if it was D2 and all item's were BoP... how crappy would that be (yes not the best application of D3 theory but I think it gets the point across); additionally let’s just roll on our loot too, might make it more fun. BoP/BoA is for WoW and Wow only. There would be no point to the AH, heck this game would probably been released by now if they went that route.

    The only aspect that would ever get me to never buy this game is if things were BoP.

    Quote from Simpy7

    Shouldn't the RMAH fix the issue with 3rd party sites? I mean why go buy stuff from them when you can get it from RMAH with guarantee you won't get scammed etc. and it'll prolly be cheaper aswell


    This quote sums it up. If any sites still do exist there won't be many and they probably won't do very well; of course many of the practices presented to us over the months sound great in theory, were just going to have wait and see.
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #26
    It will be interesting however to see if third party sites compete in any way. If competitive bidding makes a great item pricey in the Official RMAH, why not get it cheaper (if available) on a third party site? (with the risk of being scammed of course)
  • #27
    Quote from K1RSCH

    It will be interesting however to see if third party sites compete in any way. If competitive bidding makes a great item pricey in the Official RMAH, why not get it cheaper (if available) on a third party site? (with the risk of being scammed of course)


    Why create a 3rd party site when you can just list that item for a lesser value and have it sell immediately.

    I mean, if your goal is to obtain log-in info, sure, make your 3rd party site and keylog away, but if you're just looking for cash for items, the blizz ah market will give you that easy.
  • #28
    @PantheraOrca - Haha good call. That makes sense.

    I just hope there isn't alot of cheating in the RMAH. (For example buying out all of one item and then only selling a few at a time to create scarcity to bump up the prices.)

    Not really educated on how the WoW AH works or anything so I'm not sure if this would make you any money or not, but it seems like it could be worth a try to make a few bucks.

    Bashiok did address "Shilling" in a blue post which is similar to what I'm talking about.
    http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/188749/outbidding-the-competitor/
  • #29
    Quote from PantheraOnca

    Quote from K1RSCH

    It will be interesting however to see if third party sites compete in any way. If competitive bidding makes a great item pricey in the Official RMAH, why not get it cheaper (if available) on a third party site? (with the risk of being scammed of course)


    Why create a 3rd party site when you can just list that item for a lesser value and have it sell immediately.

    I mean, if your goal is to obtain log-in info, sure, make your 3rd party site and keylog away, but if you're just looking for cash for items, the blizz ah market will give you that easy.


    Because you have developed a method of duping and the fact that blizzard will find it and it will disappear is irrelevant to you. The hope is that a fear of duped items will keep people from purchasing cheaper items from third party sites.

    Despite what a WoW player might tell you. Someone will eventually figure out a method of duping most likely, and when they do if they put it on the AH it will probably be recognized as a dupe. +1 for the RMAH imo. The main reason you don't see duping in WoW is most likely a combination of 1) almost all items are BoP (farming the few BoE's even for just 1 to dupe is time consuming and therefore not cost-efficient) 2) constant maintenance and security 3) hopefully a program that can recognize dupes either through the AH or log in/log off.

    Keylogging and/or hacking accounts is probably the biggest concern for Diablo III. I'm not saying it is a deal breaker or even a downside of a RMAH in comparison to D2 standards. However, it will be an issue, and it is one that has been an issue in games like WoW where for whatever reason Blizzard fanboys are convinced that their subscription fees grant them uber-security instead of simply covering server maintenance and upkeep fees and bolstering a high profit margin.
  • #30
    Quote from K1RSCH

    @PantheraOrca - Haha good call. That makes sense.

    I just hope there isn't alot of cheating in the RMAH. (For example buying out all of one item and then only selling a few at a time to create scarcity to bump up the prices.)

    Not really educated on how the WoW AH works or anything so I'm not sure if this would make you any money or not, but it seems like it could be worth a try to make a few bucks.

    Bashiok did address "Shilling" in a blue post which is similar to what I'm talking about.
    http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/188749/outbidding-the-competitor/


    Mass buyouts are very profitable gold producing methods in WoW. Especially before content patches or updates where players can predict the value of items drastically rising. For instance, if there is a crafting resource produced from your nephilim cube that makes some low level item. It won't sell for much on the RMAH. Then Blizzard updates and that resource becomes an ingredient in a new high level item. A person could acquire this information early and buy up all of that resource being posted on the RMAH at a low price while waiting on the update. Once the update hits, the person then has a huge stockpile of a resource that everyone wants. The person starts meeting the new extremely high demand with their large supply at high prices and anyone else who posts the resource for prices beneath theirs can be bought and reposted easily considering how quickly the resource is selling at such a high price. Demand control will be important. Blizzard will need to safely guard information like this so that it isn't released prior to implementation. Not sure they will, but with real money involved I, personally, think they should.
  • #31
    @mindstain - Thanks for the info! Very informative. :)
  • #32
    Quote from mindstain

    Despite what a WoW player might tell you. Someone will eventually figure out a method of duping most likely, and when they do if they put it on the AH it will probably be recognized as a dupe. +1 for the RMAH imo. The main reason you don't see duping in WoW is most likely a combination of 1) almost all items are BoP (farming the few BoE's even for just 1 to dupe is time consuming and therefore not cost-efficient) 2) constant maintenance and security 3) hopefully a program that can recognize dupes either through the AH or log in/log off.



    Duping isn't a thing in wow at all.

    To counter your 3 points:

    1- There are non-BoP crafting materials which you could make an ABSOLUTE killing on if there were a dup method when new patches arrive (or were, I played seriously back in Wrath and crusader orbs and such were stupid expensive when first introduced).

    2- Will also be present in D3, hence the "always online" they've gone with.

    3- Always online probably circumvents the need for this, but I'm sure they'll have extra layers of dupe protection just because ... I'm sure diablo means dupe in some language somewhere somewhen.


    Re: cornering a market. It will technically be possible, but without more info, and depending on the number of players/items/cost per item per region, it may not be too viable (but it also could be).
  • #33
    Yeah, with the experience they've gained since Diablo II, I fully expect them to have dealt with the duping problem.
  • #34
    Quote from PantheraOnca

    Quote from mindstain

    Despite what a WoW player might tell you. Someone will eventually figure out a method of duping most likely, and when they do if they put it on the AH it will probably be recognized as a dupe. +1 for the RMAH imo. The main reason you don't see duping in WoW is most likely a combination of 1) almost all items are BoP (farming the few BoE's even for just 1 to dupe is time consuming and therefore not cost-efficient) 2) constant maintenance and security 3) hopefully a program that can recognize dupes either through the AH or log in/log off.



    Duping isn't a thing in wow at all.

    To counter your 3 points:

    1- There are non-BoP crafting materials which you could make an ABSOLUTE killing on if there were a dup method when new patches arrive (or were, I played seriously back in Wrath and crusader orbs and such were stupid expensive when first introduced).

    2- Will also be present in D3, hence the "always online" they've gone with.

    3- Always online probably circumvents the need for this, but I'm sure they'll have extra layers of dupe protection just because ... I'm sure diablo means dupe in some language somewhere somewhen.


    Re: cornering a market. It will technically be possible, but without more info, and depending on the number of players/items/cost per item per region, it may not be too viable (but it also could be).


    You're right, there isn't any duping in WoW. Hopefully, you are right and the "always online" method will ensure that duping never happens. I only referenced WoW because the items are "controlled" differently and a direct comparison is someone difficult to draw. At least an accurate one is. Unless you reference the "always online" aspect, which you did. I hate the argument that without a subscription fee there is no security vs. duping though.
  • #35
    Quote from mindstain

    You're right, there isn't any duping in WoW. Hopefully, you are right and the "always online" method will ensure that duping never happens. I only referenced WoW because the items are "controlled" differently and a direct comparison is someone difficult to draw. At least an accurate one is. Unless you reference the "always online" aspect, which you did. I hate the argument that without a subscription fee there is no security vs. duping though.


    I wouldn't argue that a subscription fee is necessary to prevent duping. I think that argument is trying to state that blizzard-side servers and character/inventory info are going to cost them (blizzard) money, and since they're a business they don't plan to "let that slide."

    I think the RMAH solves that problem elegantly and completely voluntarily.

    "Duping" anecdote: At one point in wow, I thought I had managed to double up on the gold i looted because even with auto-loot (everything in the loot window is picked up when you click the mob) there was still a time window to actually click the money icon, and it would generate the "you just picked up gold" sound.

    After about an hour of such cleverness I noticed that the gold on my character was only going up by the single-loot amounts of gold.
  • #36
    Quote from PantheraOnca

    Quote from mindstain

    You're right, there isn't any duping in WoW. Hopefully, you are right and the "always online" method will ensure that duping never happens. I only referenced WoW because the items are "controlled" differently and a direct comparison is someone difficult to draw. At least an accurate one is. Unless you reference the "always online" aspect, which you did. I hate the argument that without a subscription fee there is no security vs. duping though.


    I wouldn't argue that a subscription fee is necessary to prevent duping. I think that argument is trying to state that blizzard-side servers and character/inventory info are going to cost them (blizzard) money, and since they're a business they don't plan to "let that slide."

    I think the RMAH solves that problem elegantly and completely voluntarily.

    This. I'm thinking the RMAH solves the need for subscription fees to keep money rolling in to update the game and/or run maintenance/security. The RMAH will already be making them money, and hopefully enough to make it possible to give Diablo 3 constant attention (maybe not to the degree that WoW has, but still enough).
    This signature has been edited by Macros: 25 August 2010 - 04:00 PM
  • #37
    Quote from Macros

    Quote from PantheraOnca

    Quote from mindstain

    You're right, there isn't any duping in WoW. Hopefully, you are right and the "always online" method will ensure that duping never happens. I only referenced WoW because the items are "controlled" differently and a direct comparison is someone difficult to draw. At least an accurate one is. Unless you reference the "always online" aspect, which you did. I hate the argument that without a subscription fee there is no security vs. duping though.


    I wouldn't argue that a subscription fee is necessary to prevent duping. I think that argument is trying to state that blizzard-side servers and character/inventory info are going to cost them (blizzard) money, and since they're a business they don't plan to "let that slide."

    I think the RMAH solves that problem elegantly and completely voluntarily.

    This. I'm thinking the RMAH solves the need for subscription fees to keep money rolling in to update the game and/or run maintenance/security. The RMAH will already be making them money, and hopefully enough to make it possible to give Diablo 3 constant attention (maybe not to the degree that WoW has, but still enough).


    Conservative approach: (250,000 people buy the game X (50% considering using RMAH) X buy & sell one item a week on RMAH) X (potential buying selling fee of 0.50) = $125,000. I'm sure there are additional costs to blizzard such as transaction fees, 3rd party money fee (for controlling ebalance), maintenance fees etc... but really $125,000 of potential generated income a week for buying and selling one item from each user (ignoring the free item placing they are proposing). Not to mention if you cash money out they get a %fee of that as well. I'm thinking D3 will get some attention =D
    Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
  • #38
    Quote from Absolut

    Thanks for the recap Sixen. Crazy weekend here in Chicago during Lollapalooza, but it seems I am now caught up with Diablo 3 info, now we continue to wait!!!


    But I don't want to wait anymore, can we boycott? :dh:
    ~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
  • #39
    I refresh this site once every hour or so, hoping for a "BETA RELEASE" post...
  • #40
    Quote from mindstain

    Quote from K1RSCH

    @PantheraOrca - Haha good call. That makes sense.

    I just hope there isn't alot of cheating in the RMAH. (For example buying out all of one item and then only selling a few at a time to create scarcity to bump up the prices.)

    Not really educated on how the WoW AH works or anything so I'm not sure if this would make you any money or not, but it seems like it could be worth a try to make a few bucks.

    Bashiok did address "Shilling" in a blue post which is similar to what I'm talking about.
    http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/188749/outbidding-the-competitor/


    Mass buyouts are very profitable gold producing methods in WoW. Especially before content patches or updates where players can predict the value of items drastically rising. For instance, if there is a crafting resource produced from your nephilim cube that makes some low level item. It won't sell for much on the RMAH. Then Blizzard updates and that resource becomes an ingredient in a new high level item. A person could acquire this information early and buy up all of that resource being posted on the RMAH at a low price while waiting on the update. Once the update hits, the person then has a huge stockpile of a resource that everyone wants. The person starts meeting the new extremely high demand with their large supply at high prices and anyone else who posts the resource for prices beneath theirs can be bought and reposted easily considering how quickly the resource is selling at such a high price. Demand control will be important. Blizzard will need to safely guard information like this so that it isn't released prior to implementation. Not sure they will, but with real money involved I, personally, think they should.


    There is quite a large risk in that. What if blizzard just announce on patchday that they have to postpone that change and then you sit there with your huge amount of worthless stuff you paid RM for ^^

    Also when it comes to keyloggers correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the #1 source of keyloggers WoW-addons? and again correct me if I'm wrong but D3 won't have addons right? so how will a D3-player get them?

    I've thought about this blizzard revenue thing. They might actually earn some from RMAH even though the listing fees are low. Since many people will use their e-balance to purchase ingame stuff instead of cashing out. Meaning the money is just circulating the RMAH giving blizz some money every auction posted and every auction sold/bought ... clever. Very good for blizzard = good for the games = good for us :D
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