I Spy With My Little Eye...

  • #21
    Quote from kasperja

    Quote from Uldyssian


    Once a database is up and running of all gear, gems and such theorycrafting is open to use everyone who is good at doing so and will arrive to some similar conclusions on what are the best gear, gem, skill, trait choices for builds. I get being proud of a self-discovered set up that works but there are going to be so many variants that laying claim to one is just kind of a needless, self-imposed sense of ownership.


    I don't think so. Someone i know have spent very very long time perfecting his build in D2 with every single item and every single stat. I have never seen such a perfect build before, not even in all the guides on the internet. I think it would be a shame if people just could log on, look up the character, and more or less copy it without him allowing them to. I think as far as possible, it should be up to the indivdual player to figure out such builds.

    I guess prepare to be copied? Idk. I would prefer to be open about my builds rather than a Scrooge McDuck about it.
  • #22
    I made a thread about this a month or so back and it got a little heated...
    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/25263-seeing-another-players-gear/page__p__603643__fromsearch__1#entry603643

    From my perspective an armory or inspection feature is a bad idea! A possible toggle function solves some problems but not all.

    These features may reduce replay ability. Rerolling characters and trying new builds out might be made redundant due to a more efficient way to find/create these best/well performing builds …

    I am not a fan of these features

    BUT I still can’t wait to play this game!
  • #23
    I think the best idea for sharing your gear info would be a sort of link to the item. Think of it this way, you link the item in a chat message in game to someone and they can click on the linked word(item). When they do, it shows the icon/picture of the item, and its stats. This way people can still easily share info and keep it private if they want. I agree with the motion that this inspecting is bad because it will induce copying and soon every player will be the same, making it boring. There is nothing wrong with builds, people make guides and stuff all the time, but downright copying someone else is different, in my opinion.
  • #24
    Hey all :)

    As earlier posts,
    I think a good option would be to allow the player to toggle on/off his items AND/OR skills sharing on the armory ( maybe like some check boxes to choose from : gear/skills/traits) and same for being inspected or not.
    From the distant north... Beyond the frigid seas... They come, bringing the black clouds of war. ( Vinland Saga )
  • #25
    Quote from kasperja

    I don't think so. Someone i know have spent very very long time perfecting his build in D2 with every single item and every single stat. I have never seen such a perfect build before, not even in all the guides on the internet. I think it would be a shame if people just could log on, look up the character, and more or less copy it without him allowing them to. I think as far as possible, it should be up to the indivdual player to figure out such builds.


    Blah, there are no secrets to itemization. It's rather simple to optimize mathematically and choose the best piece of gear. I never personally bothered to use perfect-defense Enigmas and stuff like that, I settled with 1 or 2 points from perfect since the difference was negligible anyways.

    The difficulty in Diablo II was never choosing gear, it was finding the specific gear. It was pretty simple to define the best theoretical rare item for a specific slot, but it was much harder finding that one. It'll be the same for Diablo III.
  • #26
    Quote from CheehC

    I made a thread about this a month or so back and it got a little heated...
    http://www.diablofan...__1#entry603643

    From my perspective an armory or inspection feature is a bad idea! A possible toggle function solves some problems but not all.

    These features may reduce replay ability. Rerolling characters and trying new builds out might be made redundant due to a more efficient way to find/create these best/well performing builds …

    I am not a fan of these features

    BUT I still can’t wait to play this game!


    I still do not see how this can be damaging in ANY way to the game. There are going to be so many levels of customization to the gear alone, that it will be hard for people to carbon copy everything from another player. Then you factor in the customization of the skills themselves - essentially a reflection of your play style - and it would be very unusual for anyone to copy you completely.

    I inspected some of the greatest players of my class in WoW many times. I checked out their builds on the Armory. I even duplicated a few things in gear and skill point allocation. I never duplicated anyone completely. Their play style was just too different from mine and they liked the ugly looking gear :)

    There will be cookie cutter builds that function around a combo of skills and gear that are generally most effective in all situations. That's going to come about by information on the internet and forums like this one - not because you got inspected.

    I do not understand why anyone would be upset to be "seen" at anytime. That is if you have nothing to hide. Keeping your gear a secret for the sake of secrets is silly in my opinion.

    And the argument "well others won't let me group with them, because they will think I have crap gear and don't realize what I can do with it" doesn't work with me either. If you run into pretentious people like that, then most likely you don't want to group with them anyway. They are the asshats that get off on controlling a group of people and not playing the game.

    I would rather have someone inspect my gear - than spend ten minutes talking about it to them. Because it doesn't just stop with "what chest piece are you using?" It gets into runes, dyes, stats on the gear, skills it effects, etc. Wouldn't it be easier to just say "inspect me and go to the D3 wiki."
  • #27
    YES! I hope they both are in...why not? No one can give a reasonable answer as to why not? (Because it's mine isn't an answer; because its not yours, its all Blizz property) D3 isn't a button masher, and with all of the variances, who cares what your gear is. It does not matter in any way, shape or form. You will be changing gear so much the first few months you won't care because you aren't starting with all legendary. By the there will be on-line lists of the high end stuff so it's not going to matter. Inspecting gives me something to do when I am waiting for people to hurry up and sell stuff.
    Sometimes you don't always know where you stand... until you know that you won't run away.
  • #28
    Quote from CheehC

    I made a thread about this a month or so back and it got a little heated...
    http://www.diablofans.com/topic/25263-seeing-another-players-gear/page__p__603643__fromsearch__1#entry603643

    From my perspective an armory or inspection feature is a bad idea! A possible toggle function solves some problems but not all.

    These features may reduce replay ability. Rerolling characters and trying new builds out might be made redundant due to a more efficient way to find/create these best/well performing builds …

    I am not a fan of these features

    BUT I still can’t wait to play this game!

    How will that reduce replayability? In my opinion it has the potential to increase it. You can see the build of someone who joins your game and you say to yourself "Hm. I gotta try this someday". Poof! There you go. One more reason to start yet another character.
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  • #29
    I will probably inspect the gears of my friends more and rarely on others. Armory is different though. I hope both features makes it to the game. If it's not at initial release, it's ok.
    I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North, Torchlight 2, Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
  • #30
    Quote from Xtapolapacetl

    Not sure how effective implementing this will be. By the time you hit a high level...you probably won't be doing non-private games. Therefore you won't be able to be inspected and therefore nobody will know your name to look you up on armory. It's not like WoW where you're sitting in Ironforge and see someone with a piece of gear you want to check out. The only thing that could be effective would be if the setup before you enter a game is a chat room (like in D2) and you see the list of people below and you can inspect from there. Any thoughts?


    In the Diablo II hacks, you'd just mouse over a player in a game and press a hotkey and it would show their inventory. I think that's a fine approach. Could just expand it to work in chat rooms.

    @Doomscream: Agreed!
  • #31
    Fun to see what others have, at least in the beginning. Later on you wanna check out whats indiffrent if any gear is more powerful then your own due to the high attack they master or something similar.

    I welcome the feature. And if you dont wanna show your gear, its cool to have one player mode! A mode I will play (perhaps alot?!)..

    Swedish Official Fansite www.Diablo3pvp.se

  • #32
    I still don't see the issue most people have with this. As noted, with the distinguishable gear tiers, skills, and runes, any player can know what you have anyway. The only thing they won't know from a glance is stats on gear. And even if they see it, they won't be able to directly replicate thanks to randomized loot.

    I am all for inspect and an armory.

    BTW good point about increasing replayability by trying to match someone's build.

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  • #33
    Really what is it going to matter if people are going to see your build and maybe end up copying it? You should feel honored if they think you're so good they decide to copy your build. If there won't be a inspect feature, everyone will copy their build from the small number of guides on the forums. If you decide to copy from a character ingame you probably end up tweaking it anyway, since you don't know for sure if that character knew what he was doing. I'd trust a internet guide more than a random character ingame. With the inspect feature, there will be less reason for me to search on the internet.
  • #34
    I'm really not against this kind of feature in D3. Some people might dislike it because it takes some of the "mystery" out of the PvP aspect. I believe the main reason for that is that once you know people's gear, you can gauge where their weakness is (like fire vulnerability in an armor build or low block/defense).

    But to be honest this would only affect PvP in D3, and since there's no hostility in the big world, would actually make people help each other in PvM (like more experienced players telling the novice ones beforehand what kind of resist they'd need for a specific dungeon/quest/boss).

    As far as PvP goes, I do think it kind of takes some of the "surprise" away from it, since not knowing your enemies weakness in D2 meant you needed some quick thinking during those really rare drawn out battles (Barb vs Barb lifesteal? Or multiple rounds between two Sorceress with different resists/specializations).

    Considering this is in already, I'd like to see a feature where you can "hide" 1, maybe 2 pieces of your equipment, maybe 2 in case of rings/necklaces/accessories and 1 in case of armors/weapons. Specially in the "later" lvls, just to keep things fresh in the higher tiers of PvP. Imagine you don't want your enemy knowing which necklace or ring you have in your hands. Or maybe you want to hide that "rare" armor you found which has the same look at others in that tier, but that has an awesome arcane resist attribute, and is your "ace in the hand" for Arcane focused Wizards. That would be really nice strategic thinking and would prevent a lot of "imbaness" talk in PvP (since countering would be viable and would just depend on smart judging on how much dmg you're dealing/taking).

    EDIT: On a sidenote, having different Skills and Traits would be enough "surprise" in PvP so that you don't ever trully know what you're up against until the player starts throwing out his Firewall Hydras with Lvl 7 runes and a (imaginary) fire-boosting trait in the last round of a PvP match, so what I suggest might really not be necessary. I still think it wouldnt break the game to be able to "hide" 1 piece of equipment, and might even please those who are against this feature.

    Btw, sorry for the text wall =( such a bad habit.
  • #35
    I don't see it affecting the "mystery" of PvP either. Simply because when I enter the arena I won't be searching the armory when I see the oponents, because they will kill me before I manage to look up everything you need, it's far more superior to learn about your enemies while fighting them - seeing what skills they use, how much damage they inflict, how much damage you manage to do to them etc. You can't insepct their playstyle in the armory...

    I would like to quote Oblivionx1234 from the battle.net forums. He made a good post on the subject.

    And you know - WoW is an esport - knowing builds in WoW is far more advantageous than knowing builds in Diablo 3 will ever be. As for gear - that's not even an important factor to know about your opponents in a game where all gear is PvE gear (Diablo 3). At best, only knowing their resistances might matter... and I don't think that'll help you much, especially in a 30 second fight. I mean, Diablo 3 is not an esport, and they're not going to try and support it as one. Also - unless you're like the top 1% in the PvP rankings - the chances of you encountering people you armory are going to be very slim. If I fight you, I might (probably not) go armory you after the fight. Then I'll probably not run into you again for a few hours / days / weeks. By then, I guarantee I'll have forgotten everything I read lol. This isn't serious business - and this is coming from someone who is going to PvP all the time.

    Edit:

    Also, since I'll play every class, and be PvPing all the time, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to recognize your 7 skills and what runes you have in them. In PvP I'll also be able to guess (quite accurately) your traits as well. As for your gear, all it does is boosts your stats (presumably stats important for PvPing, and for the 7 skills I see you using), and that's not a big issue if I don't know 'exactly' what it is. So you know, for me at least, having an armory to know my opponents in PvP isn't even something I'll need. I think most PvPers would agree to that.


    I would like to add something else. I am not against having a 'privacy option', although I won't be using it, but consider the following for the moment: people might want you to pay them before you can see their gear/skiss/traits, etc. Personally, I think anyone deserves that and such people are waaaay over their heads, the only person who can actually make me pay gold to see an item is named Wirt, and he is dead for quite some time...
    Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
  • #36
    Hello all :)
    I just gonna say my thoughts on this.
    I have played WoW for 2 year very hardcore. And the inspect feature was a fun way of seeing how much of gear you lack when you, for example, inspected a player who just cleared every dungeon on the server with his guild.

    kinda pushes you to play even more, even better then before. You see an epic +60 on all resistances, +200 on spell power super staff from some dungeon and say to yourself - damn, that staff would look better on me. and you do your best to get it. Kinda gives you an competitive edge.

    And if you are on the other side of chain - well the brag feature of someone inspecting and then whispering you ingame saying - 'man your gear looks imba' is just awesome :))

    im totaly for inspect and totaly for armory. why not. you play the damn game, give your best (time, nerves, money, couple of gaming mices that you break while playing) and hell yeah - look at what i got on my Wizard :P

    And good to see that Bashiok said some more info on this. I asked on twitter a long time ago about simmilar subject, and i got this answer (sry for repeating this, i think i posted this in some other subject also...):



    This 'Tie it to the game as much as possible' bit is - well the armory i guess.

    Note that there is an identical feature for SC2 players. The sc2 site is directly connected to your profile - you log in via your battle.net details and you can see online your score, achivements, ladder positions...

    that's it from me for now :) tnx for reading :D

    sincerely,
    sinke
  • #37
    I really like how Diablo III will have armory on it :)
  • #38
    In one of the interviews with Jay Wilson when he's talking about BOE (bind on equip) he mentions that the top tier of gear will be "a moving target." With a constant flow of new items both gear and playstyles will drastically change, probably quicker than anyone single build per class can catch on, and even then not significantly. Checking other's gear will just tell more about their character progess and preffered stat setup via gear bonuses. All you can tell is if they stack health or mana or damage. You'll still have no real insight into their chosen class mechanics unless you actually see them use them, and runes will make it even harder tell without seeing the build in action. Although this does assume you won't be able to search builds through the armory.
    "Live long and perspire"
  • #39
    *Mystery!

    For the love of god, mYstery! It's spelled with a Y!

    As for the rest, I believe I have planted my flag firmly on the side of "inspection ftw" many threads ago. All y'all that think you're a beautiful unique snowflake with amazing builds are going to end up cloning the same top tier builds everyone else does ;)

    Aside from which, from the looks of things skill will be more important than gear this time around, it's not a spamfest anymore :lol: You can't inspect skill from someone.

    *ok technically you can, from replays and VODs and stuff, but SHUT UP I'm trying to make a point*

    Information gets shared, it's 2011 for balls sake. Get over it.
  • #40
    In 4 years of playing D2 I've never been called for being or have low gear. I always got in a rush game, did what I did. No dmg metters, no kill meters, no need to even bother with the stats, pure fun!
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