A training system could actually work.
It works and allways worked properly with offensive skills in many games. The problem comes with defensive skills were you have to become a masoquist to train your abillities.
Anyway, imo the best option is a skill system like D2 without synergies, with decent character progression in every skills and no overlaping skills.
Not just that!
How would you level up passive skills? Even if you had to 'activate' them (Barb's BO), instead of an aura, how would you raise that skill?
Spam the skill?
Are you replying to my post cause if you did, I would highly suggest reading it before doing so next time. Just to further prove my point I will quote myself to answer your question.
And it would actually imply that you have to use a certain skill in order to level it up, or a skill related to it in the case of a passive.
So try less face palming when your reading, it really helps.
Quote from "jinx.pt" »
You could 'tweak' it so it would gain exp when near monsters/whatever, but...How often do you use BO versus, say, WW?
So who said you would need to use BO as much as WW to level it up. It's obvious that an attack skill would be used more, consequently it's leveling speed wouldn't be identical as to that of a passive or a Defensive one... I shouldn't even have to explain this, any reasoning being could come to this conclusion...
Quote from "jinx.pt" »
Higher exp gain when you use a 'less-used' skill?
Different % of exp gain through usage of different MAJOR skill types such as Offensive vs Defensive vs Passives. So where's the problem>?
Quote from "jinx.pt" »
Seriously, Dungeon Siege's system was completely flawed. If I wanted to raise my healing skill, I had to continuously use it...and it wouldn't be enough, because I'd soon be at much higher level with my main attack skill, and healing would become even harder to train!
TO 'solve' that problem, Dungeon siege added skills/spells/attacks to 4 different groups. Each skill/whatever belonging to a group, leveled that group's experience, instead of the particular skill.
If you don't continuously need a healing spell WTF would you want to level it up for anyways... Could you come up with a logical example to demonstrate that their system is COMPLETELY flawed?
Quote from "jinx.pt" »
The only 'customization' you had in Dungeon Siege was which of the 4 (5?) groups you leveled. And god forbid you wanted to raise 2! You had to keep exping both, always, or you'd start gaining so little exp with your offskills, that you'd eventually just use one group, because it was more work then anything else.
No one said it had to be identical to Dungeon Siege. Just a system based on the mechanics of exp gain through usage.
Quote from "jinx.pt" »
Anyways, skills leveling up with usage is a no-no: you have a lot less control on your build when doing that. If your use bash more often then WW, but wanted a strong WW for many mobs, how would you go about that? it just ruins builds.
Easy, every time you reach a new level, they take into consideration every single skill you have used during the exp gaining process and give you the chioce of being able to level it. But you still only get 1 point. Therefore if during 15 to 16 I used alot of BASH and a few WW then I would have the possibility of leveling either one,not both, no matter which one I used most. But if I didn't use any of my leap skill, I will not have the possibility of leveling it up further. Of course taking into consideration that you already have the skill. Lvl 0 Skill would always be open to unlock.
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Well, if it were the case that the more you use it the better you get at it, I would be thrilled. It's something that is way more realistic than any Skill system ever brought by D1 or D2.
Plus it is nearly the same as Oblivion. many folks once hinted that they should consider the advantages of such a system but most people just kinda laughed it off since there's alot of hate for that game from people who just didn't play it the way it was meant to be played.
I think it makes perfect sense to level a skill by constantly using it.
I'm not agree, I'll take an exemple from Morrowind, When you jump your athletic skill raise, so I always been jump like a crazy, but I finally reach the max level and keep that habbit to always jump...
I don't want see people spam skill like that...
Maybe it's will work like that but a restriction like, you need to hit a monster to gain exp for your skill, because If not, I'll go outside town and spam my skill in the empty.
EDIT :
I just read it
Easy, every time you reach a new level, they take into consideration every single skill you have used during the exp gaining process and give you the chioce of being able to level it. But you still only get 1 point. Therefore if during 15 to 16 I used alot of BASH and a few WW then I would have the possibility of leveling either one,not both, no matter which one I used most. But if I didn't use any of my leap skill, I will not have the possibility of leveling it up further. Of course taking into consideration that you already have the skill. Lvl 0 Skill would always be open to unlock.
Ok, I'll try to be more accurate, since you didn't understand me. I provided the same examples you gave as an answer. Anyways, repeating myself:
Your 'solution' is to give different % gain when you use skills? So, you'd only need a couple BOs to level it, instead of a hundred Bashes? So what's to stop me from just keeping my mouse on the right button, continuously BOing? I'd raise that baby to max skill, and have tons of life no-time. Yes, they can still disallow you to level it by your current level, but is that your idea of fun?? Just seems broken to me.
And the healing skill? Seriously, you don't get it?? If I wanna be able to heal myself in a pinch, I need to train it. However, if I have no one to heal, how can i train it? And if I play well, I'll lose little to no life! The healing skill on an action RPG is kinda for emergencies, like a potion (ok, let's forget the spam fest of D2 here). So, in the end, I rarely use a heal, but when I need it, I NEED it! But then I'd have to spam it as much as the other skills, in order for it to be good, or I'd be a 1000hp barb healing 10hp/heal. Boooorrriiiinnnggg!! You can apply here BO, increased defence, etc, as you wish...
Spamming skills to level up is just...broken! the idea that you can use 'em to improve is pretty good in theory, but you always end up grinding. You already grind for items and levelling up. Why the hell would you want another grind???
Yes, it does not have to be identical to Dungeon Siege, someone mentioned it, I commented on it as an example of a broken levelling system. I also said that, in paper, levelling up our skills through usage sounds a lot better. I also added that I have yet to play such a system that is actually fun and allows for costumization.
In order to build your build, you would have to pay attention to what skills you use, and how often, is that fun? I'd rather use whatever I have available according to the situation.
Bring solutions, great, but bring good ones. And your solution doesn't work, btw =) If you only take into consideration the skills you used, what happens when you respec? lose a level? =) The only choice there is allowing you to level up any skill, but.....ain't that the same as a skill tree? (ok, without the tree, but the same system).
So, yeah, levelling up skills by use is broken, and it definitely does not work in diablo, unless you bring forth a new mechanic.
-An idea would be an additional experience bar for skills, some games do this, splitting between leveling up exp (stats go up) and leveling up skills (you get 1 skill point per level up). Skills xp can go up either by combat, or using skills. When you level up, you have 1 point to use. But that seems kinda redundant to me, I dunno...you're already killing monsters with skills anyways.... :/
I think you don't readed the lastest post he wrote ?!
My first post was about using skills to increase their experience. Now I think thats wrong for a few reasons. Using skills to increase their skill level means more grind. I think that's one of the flaws of D2 was there was too much grind not enough progress.
I do like the "book" idea the more I think about it. I think that the "book" or whatever item it may be would increase your skill cap past the max (which would make them very valuable) but I think that the acquiring of skill should be something different. I think if skill acquiring is item based then that becomes the focus of the game rather than beating the crap out of demons.
Let's just drop the idea then since it was confirmed anyways by bashiok...
Originally posted by Bashiok
I'm guessing you're saying this because I quoted one guy on twitter proposing this type of skill system and I said that it was a popular guess.
Well, I think I can pretty safely say that we would never use that type of skill system.
It works for some games, it just wouldn't work for us. We're dropping too many items, we're moving too fast, and we're opening up too many avenues for customization and re-customization.
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Probably. I understood you could only choose the skills you used. That's what I read anyways, but I tend to skim. 'Taking into account the skills you used while leveling up' seems to me like you can only choose those skills to level up. That just wouldn't work in Diablo. You would have to 'use' those skills at least a couple times so you could level them? I just think it's a broken system like that. I probably misunderstood. I have no idea what is proposal is then? I level up and can choose any skill? isn't that the same system? what has that to do with using skills to level up the skills?
I keep by my opinion that leveling up by use does not work in Diablo. It just doesn't work. You don't use skills in a similar way to other games that chose these options.
I think the same, I don't want that too... I want have the most possibilities possible.
wow, I had just finished posting the direct quote from bashiok...
It just makes me wonder if anyone actually reads anyone else's posts around here or just skim a few words and try to deceipher a meaning....
WE WOULD NEVER USE THAT TYPE OF SYSTEM...
So how would someone mistake this for a "maybe".
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
"Well, I think I can pretty safely say that we would never use that type of skill system."
Pretty safely does not equal safely.
I think that it is pretty safe to say you are reading too much into the "pretty safe" statement considering it was followed by "we would never use it" and "it would not work". It is pretty safe to say there is still a possiblity is rediculous.
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If those were supposed to be 22 9s after the "." then no, it's not the same. If you were trying to convey it was a periodic number, as in infinite 9s, then yes, it is exactly the same.
and with 99,9999999% chance of NO. we round up to NO!
I think skills will be taught by cows, on cow world... There will be a colored cow for each element, and that kind of cow will drop a book for a skill that uses that element ( physical beeing one ). The above is obiviously a joke with 99,999% chance
I think it's safe to say this thread is dead.
The double facepalm put the nail in the coffin.
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
It works and allways worked properly with offensive skills in many games. The problem comes with defensive skills were you have to become a masoquist to train your abillities.
Anyway, imo the best option is a skill system like D2 without synergies, with decent character progression in every skills and no overlaping skills.
So try less face palming when your reading, it really helps.
So who said you would need to use BO as much as WW to level it up. It's obvious that an attack skill would be used more, consequently it's leveling speed wouldn't be identical as to that of a passive or a Defensive one... I shouldn't even have to explain this, any reasoning being could come to this conclusion...
Different % of exp gain through usage of different MAJOR skill types such as Offensive vs Defensive vs Passives. So where's the problem>?
If you don't continuously need a healing spell WTF would you want to level it up for anyways... Could you come up with a logical example to demonstrate that their system is COMPLETELY flawed?
No one said it had to be identical to Dungeon Siege. Just a system based on the mechanics of exp gain through usage.
Easy, every time you reach a new level, they take into consideration every single skill you have used during the exp gaining process and give you the chioce of being able to level it. But you still only get 1 point. Therefore if during 15 to 16 I used alot of BASH and a few WW then I would have the possibility of leveling either one,not both, no matter which one I used most. But if I didn't use any of my leap skill, I will not have the possibility of leveling it up further. Of course taking into consideration that you already have the skill. Lvl 0 Skill would always be open to unlock.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
I'm not agree, I'll take an exemple from Morrowind, When you jump your athletic skill raise, so I always been jump like a crazy, but I finally reach the max level and keep that habbit to always jump...
I don't want see people spam skill like that...
Maybe it's will work like that but a restriction like, you need to hit a monster to gain exp for your skill, because If not, I'll go outside town and spam my skill in the empty.
EDIT :
I just read it
I'm agree, good idea
I think you don't readed the lastest post he wrote ?!
I do like the "book" idea the more I think about it. I think that the "book" or whatever item it may be would increase your skill cap past the max (which would make them very valuable) but I think that the acquiring of skill should be something different. I think if skill acquiring is item based then that becomes the focus of the game rather than beating the crap out of demons.
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
NO LEVELING UP WITH USE !
try other ideas ...
I think the same, I don't want that too... I want have the most possibilities possible.
Actually he did. He said "we would never use this system" and "it would not work for us". That means that they will not use a use to level system.
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It just makes me wonder if anyone actually reads anyone else's posts around here or just skim a few words and try to deceipher a meaning....
WE WOULD NEVER USE THAT TYPE OF SYSTEM...
So how would someone mistake this for a "maybe".
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
I'm happy to know that kind of feature will not be implemented... I find it ... bad...
Pretty safely in sense, he's sure because it's ridiculous. I think that they flushed the idea very quickly because it's a bad idea.
lol !
it's pretty the same
I think that it is pretty safe to say you are reading too much into the "pretty safe" statement considering it was followed by "we would never use it" and "it would not work". It is pretty safe to say there is still a possiblity is rediculous.
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If those were supposed to be 22 9s after the "." then no, it's not the same. If you were trying to convey it was a periodic number, as in infinite 9s, then yes, it is exactly the same.
Actually that would round up to 1
and with 99,9999999% chance of NO. we round up to NO!
I think skills will be taught by cows, on cow world... There will be a colored cow for each element, and that kind of cow will drop a book for a skill that uses that element ( physical beeing one ).
The above is obiviously a joke with 99,999% chance
The double facepalm put the nail in the coffin.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!