I always thought the D2 trading thing was never fun since you had to trade arm and leg for a lot of certain things and only those certain things were worth anything, everything else was just a throwaway piece of trash no one would ever want.
And it was always the items that you going out by yourself getting was one of those one in asdf chances D:
Problems in d2 loot and how blizzard solved it in WoW
- Not sure of what something is worth leads to you easily being ripped off -
the auction house solved that problem for the most part. No one will buy your item if you overprice it because there's simply someone else selling it CHEAPER!! people could just search they're item, see what the average price is and post it.
- took too much time to look for someone who wanted what you had and still be satisfied of what you got in return -
once again the auction house .... check price, post, get money, save up, buy what you want/need, DONE.
- you threw away 95% of the stuff you found because no one else would want it for the things you want -
You know when I first started playing wow, I managed to get like 300g before i hit level 25? I could sell greens to npcs and get like 2g but if i posted it on the AH i could easily get 2-5x more gold. That worked because the items npcs sold were expensive and were crap, and the items i found would be waaaay better and would cost the same.
eh enough, btw sign the petition if you haven't already.
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Renewed artistic direction for Diablo 3:
sign and help to make Diablo III a real Diablo III
It sucks that Blizzard always think so much about the random retard, but never about the skilled player.
Those "random retards" (ie, "casual players" as we adults know them) make up the bulk of the player base. As such, they make up the majority of Blizzards revenues. Making the game fun and memorable for them will be Blizzard's top priority, in order that they continue to think highly of Blizzard's products and keep buying them in the future.
The "skilled players" (I can only shake my head in befuddlement at this) make up a small fraction of Diablo players, and, judging by your hostility to casual gamers, do not have the best interests of the game in mind. In fact, judging by the amount of hard-core gamers advocating the current sytem in order for them to continue ripping off casual gamers, Diablo III would be a better game without them.
IMO you go a bit over the top. The "skilled" or "hard core" players do a lot of good for the game. They create fansites, run the good clans/guilds and with their enthusiasm pull in new players (payers). They keep the game alive long after most casual players are gone. I sure think that Blizzard values this.
Also, in D2 some hc players would take the trouble to make pricelists that listed most of the popular items so ppl had at least a rough guideline when they wanted to trade.
You make fair points. Many hard-core players do contribute to the game by creating and fostering communities, both online and in-game.
The contempt I see here for casual gamers, however, is not a positive contribution, and not likely to be appreciated by Blizzard.
(Yes, I like serious players)
I do as well. Serious players are the ones that create the forums and fan-sites I frequent. They are also the ones that write up the useful guides, skills analyses, and explore the mechanics of the game and make interesting discoveries about them.
However, there is a difference between a serious player and a brat that just spends too much time playing and is unable to contribute positively to online discussions. Calling casual players "random retards" doesn't impress me, and quite likely does not impress Blizzard as well.
As Bashiok said; "a bartering system can prevent any ease of entry into the system for players". My answer to that: Who said it had to be easy to trade? Trading was very advanced in Diablo 2 in higher levels and that was all the fun with the game at the end. To get better items via trade and ecome more powerful. I would never buy my gear. That's not a challenge at all.
It should be like Diablo II were the value of items is decided by players and not the game
I totally agree with you when i first played d2 i didn't kno wat items were wroth what intill you play long enough i beleive firguring it out is the best way to go and then you will understand. i'll wait intill we get more information thou on wat we can do with gold in the game and stuff intill i really freak out
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"I Do not Consider myself to do Justice, But I Do not conside myself to do Evil Either."
I think if your going to trade an item, and you have no idea how much it's worth, then simply don't trade it. In Diablo II, I either sold it or kept it; or, if you make another character, ( or a friend does ) you give it to them. Trading only took place with people you know, or in the chat room if someone mentioned something they had ( like a piece of armor for a set ), and then you would simply meet them in the game, then trade.
I just hope w.e "bardering system" they come up with actually works well in the game, and dosn't complicate things more than it has too.
It just occurred to me that I should actually weigh in on the issue of discussion. Here goes:
Trading is done better on the worse of the free online games than it is done in Diablo II. I can't really blame Diablo II for this, since the new trading systems and mechanisms only came out years after Diablo's release. The current Diablo II system of creating games and comparing content in the trade screen is clumsy, slow, and boring. I very much enjoy the various forms of auction houses in more recent games that allow you put an item for sale at a certain price, and lets you forget about it until get a message informing you about the completion of the transaction hours or days later, along with an automatic cash deposit into your bank account.
Of course, a more sophisticated auction house could maybe allow a biding system (though I don't think that would be necessary), or even allow one to demand other forms of payments instead of gold (eg, Runes, Gems, etc).
I have the feeling that many who are calling for no change at all haven't seen many of the newer games and the better trade systems they employ. Gaming technology and concepts have advanced quickly in the 8 years since the release of Diablo II. Blizzard would be well advised to adopt the best of these innovations to make Diablo III the best game it can possibly be. :cool:)
Diablo 2 trading system and economy was aweful, with or without dupes it was absolutely terrible. Lucky games have moved on a bit, especialy trading in MMO's.
part of the reason the economy is so bad in D2 is because of idiots asking for TOO GODDAMN HIGH OF A PRICE.....for instance the guy asking for a high rune for IK belt.......:confused:
So what if there are too many acronyms! When I first went on aim I didn't know what "LOL" means. Guess what I did? I ASKED wtf LOL means! Jesus christ has the world become so retarded that we can't ask a simple question? I don't care if it'll be easier. I don't care if it'll be more convenient. I like it that way because it made trading more interactive and interesting. Who doesn't like the idea that you can start with a crappy unique and end up with a bunch of high runes? The old item system is what made Diablo unique. Why tamper with something that already works? Nobody's complaining Blizzard, so if it ain't broken don't fuckin' fix it!
One thing about myself is I've always been keen on figuring things out, making something of nothing, and doing it with peoples' help without them knowing.
I would go into trade channels and listen to other people shouting offers for wants and vice versa.
I'd ask if anyone made any kick ass but fair trades.
Soon you end up with figuring out what your bounds of stretching are when it comes down to "It depends on how bad the person needs it."
I'm excellent at getting them to let me know how bad they need it.
It's so easy to go from shit items to excellent items.
There's always someone who never bothered to get that shit item, but now they want it for a collection, yet it isn't a frequent drop, and they have plenty of multiples of more valuable items... enough said. I enjoyed the trade system in Diablo II. It took skills beyond Hack and Slash and Point and Click. It was something deserving of recognition to be successful at.
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"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
all i know is that i hope they do make gold worth something,perhaps they can make us all happy in time,they know all of our wishes,so lets just chill,sit back and see what types of new stuff they can come up with!
I think it would not be bad if you could use gold to trade with. I meen, bound items will most likely stay quest related. Like Quest rewards or quest specific items. I dont see anything wrong from my perspective of being able to still trade ITEM vs ITEM or maybe GOLD vs ITEM this time around. Also brings up the option of trading GOLD+ITEM vs ITEM. So to me it makes sense. :thumbsup:
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If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
I think it would not be bad if you could use gold to trade with. I meen, bound items will most likely stay quest related. Like Quest rewards or quest specific items. I dont see anything wrong from my perspective of being able to still trade ITEM vs ITEM or maybe GOLD vs ITEM this time around. Also brings up the option of trading GOLD+ITEM vs ITEM. So to me it makes sense. :thumbsup:
agreed. and i think making better items more avalible in vendor shops would help increase the value of gold and also making gold much more scarce than it is in D2 since i picked up and sold items for 1 million gold in one days playing:D
Gold needs to become rarer for that to happen, if it's plentiful the universal price of gold goes down, if no one can find enough the value of gold goes up. It's actually econmics.
But, who will say how much a item is worth (gold wise?) Again with the people running the trade economey...I feel that people like in diablo2 will become greedy and try to get the best rip off as they can. Happened to me all the time...and the price for something changed so often, because it was made up by the general public, I had no idea what was worth what when... ._.' So, I'm all for gold and still keeping item vs. item...but I like the idea of there being a set system saying that this item is worth "x" and you could trade with it "Y and Z" to make it a fair trade.
we need a balance, prices will differ that is a fact no matter what, i mean as more people get more of the same item it will cost less to get it, now i think it having a price of gold will greatly help, something nice would be the game counting how much gold there is in the world, and how many copies of the same item are out there, and that set's the price. That way we still have somewhat a price change, and we dont get spammed, and for the sake of trading lets just make the game say "Price somewhere in the 1300+"
It all comes down to who needs what, that's the only time trade value sways.
Just pay attention to who is trading for what and find consistent patterns.
Stick to those patterns.
Otherwise, you trade what you believe is fair, and if you're honest, people can tell.
It's not very hard to compare worth of bonuses on items; after that, how often it drops comes into play.
Anyone trying to rip you off is desperate for a trade and needs an item real bad.
Level with them, let them know you need what they got just as bad.
Work out something of giving them this item, and when you find another item you'll give it to them.
It's easy to tell who you can trust. I don't think you need to grow up in the "hood" to spot a thief.
You spend time with who you're interested in trading, you talk.. you'll figure them out.
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"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
1.) The amount of gold dropped by mobs should be compartively reduced from Diablo II (Causes the value to go up, simple economics).
2.) The trade system should be updated as new technology has come into the market (No sense sticking with old system just because of hardcore sensibilities, nostalgia, or descrimination against other gaming systems.) Bartering system, and Auction Housing are both viable options in my book.
3.) All gold eventually has to be destroyed by the game in some way, as it is created by the game in some way. That being said, there are several ways to accomplish said fact: Repair Bills, Arrow/bolt costs, Item purchase Costs, Gambling costs, and also, adding other money pits AKA Socketing, Upgrading, etc. All that being said, I feel the system can drop some of the rather annoying ones that can cause breaks in game play (Repairing, arrow bills etc.) Leaving you with Direct costs of items from vendors (Powerful items were rare to find in Diablo II shops but were present, and make gambling viable for getting great items as well (Also great at reducing over all gold floating around in the system.)
4. The game was fun with no BOP's/BOE's (Bind on pick up/Bind on Equip). If they are to be implemented, do it in balance: BOP's should only apply to quest items, BOE's should only apply to extremely rare and unique items (If at all).
5. Insure that all botting/Duping/ and otherwise economy destroyers are blocked as best as humanly possible, I think the rest will work itself out.
Lastly as a side note on topic, those that loved the bartering system strictly and loved the fact that you could get ripped off and prefer it that way, I'd have to say your only motivation for thinking that would be if you were the one scamming people. The game designer's job is to appeal to as many people as possible, not the ones that think of clever ways to rip people off instead of earning their own keep. I don't think gold should be the way to get the very best items of all necessarily, but I think it should serve to get you most everything else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Nothing happens to you, but everything happens for you.
And it was always the items that you going out by yourself getting was one of those one in asdf chances D:
- Not sure of what something is worth leads to you easily being ripped off -
the auction house solved that problem for the most part. No one will buy your item if you overprice it because there's simply someone else selling it CHEAPER!! people could just search they're item, see what the average price is and post it.
- took too much time to look for someone who wanted what you had and still be satisfied of what you got in return -
once again the auction house .... check price, post, get money, save up, buy what you want/need, DONE.
- you threw away 95% of the stuff you found because no one else would want it for the things you want -
You know when I first started playing wow, I managed to get like 300g before i hit level 25? I could sell greens to npcs and get like 2g but if i posted it on the AH i could easily get 2-5x more gold. That worked because the items npcs sold were expensive and were crap, and the items i found would be waaaay better and would cost the same.
eh enough, btw sign the petition if you haven't already.
sign and help to make Diablo III a real Diablo III
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html
~40.000signed already!
Those "random retards" (ie, "casual players" as we adults know them) make up the bulk of the player base. As such, they make up the majority of Blizzards revenues. Making the game fun and memorable for them will be Blizzard's top priority, in order that they continue to think highly of Blizzard's products and keep buying them in the future.
The "skilled players" (I can only shake my head in befuddlement at this) make up a small fraction of Diablo players, and, judging by your hostility to casual gamers, do not have the best interests of the game in mind. In fact, judging by the amount of hard-core gamers advocating the current sytem in order for them to continue ripping off casual gamers, Diablo III would be a better game without them.
You make fair points. Many hard-core players do contribute to the game by creating and fostering communities, both online and in-game.
The contempt I see here for casual gamers, however, is not a positive contribution, and not likely to be appreciated by Blizzard.
I do as well. Serious players are the ones that create the forums and fan-sites I frequent. They are also the ones that write up the useful guides, skills analyses, and explore the mechanics of the game and make interesting discoveries about them.
However, there is a difference between a serious player and a brat that just spends too much time playing and is unable to contribute positively to online discussions. Calling casual players "random retards" doesn't impress me, and quite likely does not impress Blizzard as well.
I totally agree with you when i first played d2 i didn't kno wat items were wroth what intill you play long enough i beleive firguring it out is the best way to go and then you will understand. i'll wait intill we get more information thou on wat we can do with gold in the game and stuff intill i really freak out
I just hope w.e "bardering system" they come up with actually works well in the game, and dosn't complicate things more than it has too.
Trading is done better on the worse of the free online games than it is done in Diablo II. I can't really blame Diablo II for this, since the new trading systems and mechanisms only came out years after Diablo's release. The current Diablo II system of creating games and comparing content in the trade screen is clumsy, slow, and boring. I very much enjoy the various forms of auction houses in more recent games that allow you put an item for sale at a certain price, and lets you forget about it until get a message informing you about the completion of the transaction hours or days later, along with an automatic cash deposit into your bank account.
Of course, a more sophisticated auction house could maybe allow a biding system (though I don't think that would be necessary), or even allow one to demand other forms of payments instead of gold (eg, Runes, Gems, etc).
I have the feeling that many who are calling for no change at all haven't seen many of the newer games and the better trade systems they employ. Gaming technology and concepts have advanced quickly in the 8 years since the release of Diablo II. Blizzard would be well advised to adopt the best of these innovations to make Diablo III the best game it can possibly be. :cool:)
part of the reason the economy is so bad in D2 is because of idiots asking for TOO GODDAMN HIGH OF A PRICE.....for instance the guy asking for a high rune for IK belt.......:confused:
I would go into trade channels and listen to other people shouting offers for wants and vice versa.
I'd ask if anyone made any kick ass but fair trades.
Soon you end up with figuring out what your bounds of stretching are when it comes down to "It depends on how bad the person needs it."
I'm excellent at getting them to let me know how bad they need it.
It's so easy to go from shit items to excellent items.
There's always someone who never bothered to get that shit item, but now they want it for a collection, yet it isn't a frequent drop, and they have plenty of multiples of more valuable items... enough said. I enjoyed the trade system in Diablo II. It took skills beyond Hack and Slash and Point and Click. It was something deserving of recognition to be successful at.
agreed. and i think making better items more avalible in vendor shops would help increase the value of gold and also making gold much more scarce than it is in D2 since i picked up and sold items for 1 million gold in one days playing:D
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
Just pay attention to who is trading for what and find consistent patterns.
Stick to those patterns.
Otherwise, you trade what you believe is fair, and if you're honest, people can tell.
It's not very hard to compare worth of bonuses on items; after that, how often it drops comes into play.
Anyone trying to rip you off is desperate for a trade and needs an item real bad.
Level with them, let them know you need what they got just as bad.
Work out something of giving them this item, and when you find another item you'll give it to them.
It's easy to tell who you can trust. I don't think you need to grow up in the "hood" to spot a thief.
You spend time with who you're interested in trading, you talk.. you'll figure them out.
1.) The amount of gold dropped by mobs should be compartively reduced from Diablo II (Causes the value to go up, simple economics).
2.) The trade system should be updated as new technology has come into the market (No sense sticking with old system just because of hardcore sensibilities, nostalgia, or descrimination against other gaming systems.) Bartering system, and Auction Housing are both viable options in my book.
3.) All gold eventually has to be destroyed by the game in some way, as it is created by the game in some way. That being said, there are several ways to accomplish said fact: Repair Bills, Arrow/bolt costs, Item purchase Costs, Gambling costs, and also, adding other money pits AKA Socketing, Upgrading, etc. All that being said, I feel the system can drop some of the rather annoying ones that can cause breaks in game play (Repairing, arrow bills etc.) Leaving you with Direct costs of items from vendors (Powerful items were rare to find in Diablo II shops but were present, and make gambling viable for getting great items as well (Also great at reducing over all gold floating around in the system.)
4. The game was fun with no BOP's/BOE's (Bind on pick up/Bind on Equip). If they are to be implemented, do it in balance: BOP's should only apply to quest items, BOE's should only apply to extremely rare and unique items (If at all).
5. Insure that all botting/Duping/ and otherwise economy destroyers are blocked as best as humanly possible, I think the rest will work itself out.
Lastly as a side note on topic, those that loved the bartering system strictly and loved the fact that you could get ripped off and prefer it that way, I'd have to say your only motivation for thinking that would be if you were the one scamming people. The game designer's job is to appeal to as many people as possible, not the ones that think of clever ways to rip people off instead of earning their own keep. I don't think gold should be the way to get the very best items of all necessarily, but I think it should serve to get you most everything else.
Nothing happens to you, but everything happens for you.
Making Controversial points one post at a time!