Do you mean have (A) an affix listing on each individual item page for the types of affixes that could spawn on that item type, or (B) have a link on the item pages to the affix article itself?
Having show/hide is a great idea though, I think we should incorporate that.
Solution (A) is the most logical choice. Like you go to the Axe page and there are 2 subsections for Prefixes and Suffixes, and listed there would only be the affixes that can spawn on Axes. The list wouldn't be super long like on the main affix page (which is really intended to be a master list rather than something you'd usually want to go to for information). Most people would specifically want to know what can spawn on a certain item.
If you went with (B), there would have to be some serious wizardry involved with making it only show affixes that are applicable to the item page you came from.
Another solution, (C) could be a seperate page for each item type's affixes... This seems a bit messy and would just require another page for EVERY item type.
Sticking with a master list at Affixes, and then picking out the specific item type's affixes (as I did with the Jewels page as an example) would probably work best. Incorporating a show/hide on the tables to not clutter the page keeps it from becoming a case of Information Overload. But that's just my opinion.;)
Solution (A) is the most logical choice. Like you go to the Axe page and there are 2 subsections for Prefixes and Suffixes, and listed there would only be the affixes that can spawn on Axes. The list wouldn't be super long like on the main affix page (which is really intended to be a master list rather than something you'd usually want to go to for information). Most people would specifically want to know what can spawn on a certain item.
This sounds like a good idea. It is also quite user-friendly, giving them the information directly.
However, for this I'd like to set up the lists as templates, and include the template pages on the item pages, instead of creating the lists directly one the item pages. This way, we can easily sort the affix pages. Something that's come to me recently, when talking about item pages, is we will otherwise end up with duplicates of the same data on wildly different areas of the wiki, meaning for us managing it it becomes hard to figure out where all information regarding a subject might be stored.
Quote from "dNA" »
If you went with (B), there would have to be some serious wizardry involved with making it only show affixes that are applicable to the item page you came from.
Not necessarily. If we split it up with headers as Kickin suggested, we can link to the headers. It won't be exact though: poison damage will link to elemental damage. But looking through some 20 affixes for poison damage won't be very hard, and it is a nice way to group it. Because even if we rework the item pages as you suggest, there's still the matter of the master-list being too large to properly overview.
Quote from "dNA" »
Another solution, (C) could be a seperate page for each item type's affixes... This seems a bit messy and would just require another page for EVERY item type.
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I've been looking at the affix page... Why can't we use the same structure we have now, except divide up up with headers instead of having it all in one table? Why design a new template altogether?
Well, it all still comes back to this:
Quote from "Kickin_It" »
It's also incredibly redundant since there has to be a separate entry for each affix for every item it can occur on (so the Item Type column can be sorted). For example, Bronze occurs five times, once each for Amulets, Circlets, Gloves, Rings, and Weapons. I think this makes the list bulky and difficult to read.
If you're already worried about it being too bulky with the different category headers, this will only make it worse.
EDIT:
Quote from "dNA" »
Most people would specifically want to know what can spawn on a certain item.
I don't think that's necessarily true. For things like Jewels and Charms, sure, but that's because the ranges on their affixes are so different. For your example with Axes, it would just list every affix that can occur on any weapon, since as far as I know, there aren't specific affixes that would only occur, for example, on Axes. I know there are a few that can occur on Rods or Wands that don't occur on Swords or Axes, etc...but they're pretty few and far between and I'm not really sure what doing this would add.
It's also incredibly redundant since there has to be a separate entry for each affix for every item it can occur on (so the Item Type column can be sorted). For example, Bronze occurs five times, once each for Amulets, Circlets, Gloves, Rings, and Weapons. I think this makes the list bulky and difficult to read.
If you're already worried about it being too bulky with the different category headers, this will only make it worse.
Right. While removing it does increase readability and removes lots of cells, it also removed the option of seeing what applies to each individual item type. If I'm looking for an amulet, there will be no easy way to see what can actually spawn on an amulet of this change is made.
This could be put on the item pages, but perhaps it's not entirely clear that the info is available there. Can we perhaps divide the affix page? First list them by affix type, then by item type?
Quote from "Kickin_It" »
I don't think that's necessarily true. For things like Jewels and Charms, sure, but that's because the ranges on their affixes are so different. For your example with Axes, it would just list every affix that can occur on any weapon, since as far as I know, there aren't specific affixes that would only occur, for example, on Axes. I know there are a few that can occur on Rods or Wands that don't occur on Swords or Axes, etc...but they're pretty few and far between and I'm not really sure what doing this would add.
Crossbows
Daggers
Hammers
Claws
Maces
etc.
There's actually a lot. Of course, there are still a lot of affixes that can appear on all items, which brings me back to this:
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
However, for this I'd like to set up the lists as templates, and include the template pages on the item pages, instead of creating the lists directly one the item pages. This way, we can easily sort the affix pages. Something that's come to me recently, when talking about item pages, is we will otherwise end up with duplicates of the same data on wildly different areas of the wiki, meaning for us managing it it becomes hard to figure out where all information regarding a subject might be stored.
We can create one page listing all affixes for weapons, then simply include it on all weapon pages like {{Weapon Affixes page}} or whatever it'll be called. Quite easy, and of added value to all item pages I think, since we'll still have a page on Affixes that lists every prefix and suffix.
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We can create one page listing all affixes for weapons, then simply include it on all weapon pages like {{Weapon Affixes page}} or whatever it'll be called. Quite easy, and of added value to all item pages I think, since we'll still have a page on Affixes that lists every prefix and suffix.
Ah, OK...I was picturing an individual list on each item page, which would be pretty unnecessary and a lot of work. But that's a much better solution. I could go with that. EDIT: I still think that the master list should be updated for user-friendliness and better browsing though.
Double Edit:
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Can we perhaps divide the affix page? First list them by affix type, then by item type?
I have no problem with that, but it's just going to make the page twice as long again. But if you're cool with that, then I am too.
This could be put on the item pages, but perhaps it's not entirely clear that the info is available there. Can we perhaps divide the affix page? First list them by affix type, then by item type?
Is this something we want to do though? Optimally, I think it should not be necessary. Like dna started listing on the jewel page, it should be as intuitive to put it on all item pages.
Let me do a test for the axe page and we can see how it looks. Hopefully I'll be done tonight if it doesn't present some unforeseen problem.
EDIT:Tables can, currently at least, not be both sortable and collapsible. So one of them has to go.
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The first page shows how it could be placed, and the second is the template, which shall of course be categorized etc. once we're sure if this is what we want. The two tables are also necessary since one table cannot both be sortable and collapsible.
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The first page shows how it could be placed, and the second is the template, which shall of course be categorized etc. once we're sure if this is what we want. The two tables are also necessary since one table cannot both be sortable and collapsible.
Thoughts?
Looks pretty good to me. One note, you have Arcadian and Lunar on the list for both weapons and Circlets.
So when we get the suffix list up, there will just be another line with an option to show them then?
One note, you have Arcadian and Lunar on the list for both weapons and Circlets.
Oops, my mistake. There were a lot of copy&pasting involved
Quote from "Kickin_It" »
So when we get the suffix list up, there will just be another line with an option to show them then?
Yes. Actually, we should probably incorporate them both into the same template page, so it's still just one page being linked to, and subsequently only one page that will need editing in the future.
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The first page shows how it could be placed, and the second is the template, which shall of course be categorized etc. once we're sure if this is what we want. The two tables are also necessary since one table cannot both be sortable and collapsible.
Thoughts?
This is exactly what I was reaching for, display-wise. As far as using templates goes, it seems to pretty much be the same thing as including the data directly, since the only place I could ever imagine having the 'Axe Affixes (Diablo II)' template being used is.. well, on the Axes page. But either way, it works fine and this display type (per-itemtype affixes) is the best for usability.
What will happen to the Affixes page? And how should I go about doing the Suffixes? The same way I did the prefixes?
And how should I go about doing the Suffixes? The same way I did the prefixes?
I don't think we've come to a consensus on how we're wanting to approach the master list still, so you might want to hold off on doing work with the suffixes until we do.
What will happen to the Affixes page? And how should I go about doing the Suffixes? The same way I did the prefixes?
I'm thinking we can go with Kickin's suggestion. Split up the page based on the type of the bonus, since the item pages already will hold affixes based on item type.
We can then also make a template out of the current master lists, make the collapsible, and put them on the affix page a well, so if anyone wants to see a complete list, it's there as well.
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So I guess dNA should do the suffix list the same as the prefix list then so we have it for the collapsible templates and for reference in making the individual lists on the item pages, yeah?
If he does that, then I can start categorizing and listing everything and then we can just plug it all into a table.
So I guess dNA should do the suffix list the same as the prefix list then so we have it for the collapsible templates and for reference in making the individual lists on the item pages, yeah?
If he does that, then I can start categorizing and listing everything and then we can just plug it all into a table.
Sounds like a good idea.
I need to make a template out of the template on the axe page though. Give me a few minutes
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If you want to get the table set up for me sometime in the next few days too that would be cool. I'll probably just categorize and list everything in an outside program so I don't have to do it all at once on the wiki. Then when I do put it on it'll be mostly copy/paste. :cool:
Ok. Did a little rework. Currently it works like this:
Template:Affix List (Diablo II) this template controls the header, colors and all that. This is so that if we in the future which to change how one of these lists look, we change this template, and all lists will be affected.
Template:Axe Affixes (Diablo II) This template has been updated with the above new template. The above template is copied to the top of all item lists, then a header is specified.
At the bottom you need to place two |} |}, since otherwise the table won't end.
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OK, so I looked through and categorized the Prefixes, and right now I'm looking at 15 different categories (i.e. Headers). Several of those categories are further broken down, but I'm just planning to use regular bolded text to do that so as not to add more headers. Anyway, here's what I've got and what's in them. Everything look good? Any different suggestions for sorting?
+ Attack Rating
+ Attack Rating, + Attack Rating (Based on Character Level) (which includes the "Fool's" prefix), + Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage + Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Evil
+ Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Demons, + Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Undead + Elemental Damage
+ Cold Damage, + Fire Damage, + Lighting Damage, + Poison Damage + Elemental Resistance + Cold Resist, + Fire Resist, + Lighting Resist, + Poison Resist, + Resist All Enhanced Damage
+ Defense
Enhanced Defense, + Defense (Based on Character Level) + Mana
+ Mana, + Mana (Based on Character Level) + Light Radius
+ Skill Levels
+ All Skills (for every class) + Individual Trees (for every class) Mana Gain
Damage Taken Goes to Mana, + Mana After Each Kill Magic Find
Stamina
+ Max Stamina, + Stamina Regeneration Monster Flee
Add Sockets
Increased Stack Size
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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I'm assuming minimun damage and amximum damage goes here as well?
Minimum Damage and Maximum Damage are suffixes (-of Performance, -of Evisceration, etc.) However, I realized this morning that I was forgetting the Grinding prefix (max damage based on char lvl) so I could probably throw that in here. Fool's might fit better here than in AR too, you think?
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Couldn't these be comined? And just call it all mana?
Good call. Light Radius I think is still going to need its own category; it just doesn't really fit anywhere else.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Template should now be ready to use. A category also exists for sorting them.
Minimum Damage and Maximum Damage are suffixes (-of Performance, -of Evisceration, etc.) However, I realized this morning that I was forgetting the Grinding prefix (max damage based on char lvl) so I could probably throw that in here. Fool's might fit better here than in AR too, you think?
Actually, there are a few min/max damage prefixes, charms and others
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Solution (A) is the most logical choice. Like you go to the Axe page and there are 2 subsections for Prefixes and Suffixes, and listed there would only be the affixes that can spawn on Axes. The list wouldn't be super long like on the main affix page (which is really intended to be a master list rather than something you'd usually want to go to for information). Most people would specifically want to know what can spawn on a certain item.
If you went with (B), there would have to be some serious wizardry involved with making it only show affixes that are applicable to the item page you came from.
Another solution, (C) could be a seperate page for each item type's affixes... This seems a bit messy and would just require another page for EVERY item type.
Sticking with a master list at Affixes, and then picking out the specific item type's affixes (as I did with the Jewels page as an example) would probably work best. Incorporating a show/hide on the tables to not clutter the page keeps it from becoming a case of Information Overload. But that's just my opinion.;)
This sounds like a good idea. It is also quite user-friendly, giving them the information directly.
However, for this I'd like to set up the lists as templates, and include the template pages on the item pages, instead of creating the lists directly one the item pages. This way, we can easily sort the affix pages. Something that's come to me recently, when talking about item pages, is we will otherwise end up with duplicates of the same data on wildly different areas of the wiki, meaning for us managing it it becomes hard to figure out where all information regarding a subject might be stored.
Not necessarily. If we split it up with headers as Kickin suggested, we can link to the headers. It won't be exact though: poison damage will link to elemental damage. But looking through some 20 affixes for poison damage won't be very hard, and it is a nice way to group it. Because even if we rework the item pages as you suggest, there's still the matter of the master-list being too large to properly overview.
Not a very good idea I don't think.
Well, it all still comes back to this:
If you're already worried about it being too bulky with the different category headers, this will only make it worse.
EDIT:
I don't think that's necessarily true. For things like Jewels and Charms, sure, but that's because the ranges on their affixes are so different. For your example with Axes, it would just list every affix that can occur on any weapon, since as far as I know, there aren't specific affixes that would only occur, for example, on Axes. I know there are a few that can occur on Rods or Wands that don't occur on Swords or Axes, etc...but they're pretty few and far between and I'm not really sure what doing this would add.
Right. While removing it does increase readability and removes lots of cells, it also removed the option of seeing what applies to each individual item type. If I'm looking for an amulet, there will be no easy way to see what can actually spawn on an amulet of this change is made.
This could be put on the item pages, but perhaps it's not entirely clear that the info is available there. Can we perhaps divide the affix page? First list them by affix type, then by item type?
Crossbows
Daggers
Hammers
Claws
Maces
etc.
There's actually a lot. Of course, there are still a lot of affixes that can appear on all items, which brings me back to this:
We can create one page listing all affixes for weapons, then simply include it on all weapon pages like {{Weapon Affixes page}} or whatever it'll be called. Quite easy, and of added value to all item pages I think, since we'll still have a page on Affixes that lists every prefix and suffix.
Ah, OK...I was picturing an individual list on each item page, which would be pretty unnecessary and a lot of work. But that's a much better solution. I could go with that. EDIT: I still think that the master list should be updated for user-friendliness and better browsing though.
Double Edit:
I have no problem with that, but it's just going to make the page twice as long again. But if you're cool with that, then I am too.
Is this something we want to do though? Optimally, I think it should not be necessary. Like dna started listing on the jewel page, it should be as intuitive to put it on all item pages.
Let me do a test for the axe page and we can see how it looks. Hopefully I'll be done tonight if it doesn't present some unforeseen problem.
EDIT:Tables can, currently at least, not be both sortable and collapsible. So one of them has to go.
Axes_(Diablo_II)
Template:Axe_Affixes_(Diablo_II)
The first page shows how it could be placed, and the second is the template, which shall of course be categorized etc. once we're sure if this is what we want. The two tables are also necessary since one table cannot both be sortable and collapsible.
Thoughts?
Looks pretty good to me. One note, you have Arcadian and Lunar on the list for both weapons and Circlets.
So when we get the suffix list up, there will just be another line with an option to show them then?
Oops, my mistake. There were a lot of copy&pasting involved
Yes. Actually, we should probably incorporate them both into the same template page, so it's still just one page being linked to, and subsequently only one page that will need editing in the future.
This is exactly what I was reaching for, display-wise. As far as using templates goes, it seems to pretty much be the same thing as including the data directly, since the only place I could ever imagine having the 'Axe Affixes (Diablo II)' template being used is.. well, on the Axes page. But either way, it works fine and this display type (per-itemtype affixes) is the best for usability.
What will happen to the Affixes page? And how should I go about doing the Suffixes? The same way I did the prefixes?
I don't think we've come to a consensus on how we're wanting to approach the master list still, so you might want to hold off on doing work with the suffixes until we do.
I'm thinking we can go with Kickin's suggestion. Split up the page based on the type of the bonus, since the item pages already will hold affixes based on item type.
We can then also make a template out of the current master lists, make the collapsible, and put them on the affix page a well, so if anyone wants to see a complete list, it's there as well.
If he does that, then I can start categorizing and listing everything and then we can just plug it all into a table.
Sounds like a good idea.
I need to make a template out of the template on the axe page though. Give me a few minutes
I'm sure there's no rush.
If you want to get the table set up for me sometime in the next few days too that would be cool. I'll probably just categorize and list everything in an outside program so I don't have to do it all at once on the wiki. Then when I do put it on it'll be mostly copy/paste. :cool:
Template:Affix List (Diablo II) this template controls the header, colors and all that. This is so that if we in the future which to change how one of these lists look, we change this template, and all lists will be affected.
Template:Axe Affixes (Diablo II) This template has been updated with the above new template. The above template is copied to the top of all item lists, then a header is specified.
At the bottom you need to place two |} |}, since otherwise the table won't end.
+ Attack Rating
+ Attack Rating, + Attack Rating (Based on Character Level) (which includes the "Fool's" prefix), + Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage
+ Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Evil
+ Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Demons, + Attack Rating and Enhanced Damage vs. Undead
+ Elemental Damage
+ Cold Damage, + Fire Damage, + Lighting Damage, + Poison Damage
+ Elemental Resistance
+ Cold Resist, + Fire Resist, + Lighting Resist, + Poison Resist, + Resist All
Enhanced Damage
+ Defense
Enhanced Defense, + Defense (Based on Character Level)
+ Mana
+ Mana, + Mana (Based on Character Level)
+ Light Radius
+ Skill Levels
+ All Skills (for every class) + Individual Trees (for every class)
Mana Gain
Damage Taken Goes to Mana, + Mana After Each Kill
Magic Find
Stamina
+ Max Stamina, + Stamina Regeneration
Monster Flee
Add Sockets
Increased Stack Size
I'm assuming minimun damage and amximum damage goes here as well?
Couldn't these be comined? And just call it all mana?
Otherwise it looks good. I was going to ask about life, but I saw that life depended on a suffix
EDIT: Template should now be ready to use. A category also exists for sorting them.
Minimum Damage and Maximum Damage are suffixes (-of Performance, -of Evisceration, etc.) However, I realized this morning that I was forgetting the Grinding prefix (max damage based on char lvl) so I could probably throw that in here. Fool's might fit better here than in AR too, you think?
Good call. Light Radius I think is still going to need its own category; it just doesn't really fit anywhere else.
Sweet thanks
Fool's should perhaps be listed on both places?