Possible solutions to skill boxes are to list only odd skills 1-19, or do two 10 skill layers. This could be bad for skills with 4 variables though, would look kinda bulky. You could also try to decrease the cell width, but thats probably a bad idea since some skills will be xxx-xxx damage.
Well the browser automatically just sizes things down. I think I have some cell padding in there still, and with 20+ cells, that's got to add upp. It still won't fix it for one row though.
Can't two rows would out better though somehow? I think I might experiment with that, see how it will look at least.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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Can't two rows would out better though somehow? I think I might experiment with that, see how it will look at least.
I think it would work fine if you put a delimiter between them, a break line perhaps. The only problem I see is a skill like Molten Boulder, that has variable mana cost, damage, fire damage, and avg dmg per sec. Thats two 5 row tables, could look a bit big, but it would probably be fine.
I think it could be done like the monster stats template! So when it comes to Molten Boulder, you just include the variable mana cost, average damage per sec etc. When it comes to ordinary skills, you just exclude those!
Yea, I was assuming that would be in it, but the question is how does it look with that big table? I think phrozen is going for a moderately small page for each skill, and the image eats up a good chunk of width & height.
I created a test using my Sandbox that shows what molten boulder would look like using 2 10 level tables, and all the exact formatting phrozen had in the original, except I changed the text to center aligned. Its kinda big, kinda bulky, but every skill is there, and easy to find. I think it works, but the table is bigger than the rest of the info, looks a bit odd.
I created a test using my Sandbox that shows what molten boulder would look like using 2 10 level tables, and all the exact formatting phrozen had in the original, except I changed the text to center aligned. Its kinda big, kinda bulky, but every skill is there, and easy to find. I think it works, but the table is bigger than the rest of the info, looks a bit odd.
I see what you mean. It looks a little moshed up, but perhaps if the levels were emphasized more it would look better? Altenratively we could also skip the second header that says level 11-20, that could perhaps make it a little less bulky.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I see what you mean. It looks a little moshed up, but perhaps if the levels were emphasized more it would look better? Altenratively we could also skip the second header that says level 11-20, that could perhaps make it a little less bulky.
Yea, removing both headings and using the level row as a break seems to make it quite a bit more compact: Sandbox.
Not sure if you want the table lacking a header though.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Though as of now, that's no good either, since you can't clearly see where the levels row is either.
Yea, even with the larger text the level row just doesn't "pop" enough.
I'm not sure how to do the vertical table idea, at least not easily.
*Edit* just came across something else. The skill tree pages. I don't think we need a template, Seth's example with the sorc skills works very well. http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Cold_Spells
I think it works quite well. Tested it for 1152x864 and it looks good, only 1024x78 gets a little tight. Still, I don't really know how to implement a verttical idea in a good way, so unless yo give me an idea there I don't really know what to do.
Tell me if you have any gripes with this setup so we can get to implementing the skill pages finally.
Quote from "Rousse" »
*Edit* just came across something else. The skill tree pages. I don't think we need a template, Seth's example with the sorc skills works very well. http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Cold_Spells
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
I think it works quite well. Tested it for 1152x864 and it looks good, only 1024x78 gets a little tight. Still, I don't really know how to implement a verttical idea in a good way, so unless yo give me an idea there I don't really know what to do.
Tell me if you have any gripes with this setup so we can get to implementing the skill pages finally.
That definately looks good. We can go with that.
Your link has a paren missing from the end of the URL. But that page looks sweet, that will definitely work. That is just a "how it looks" page right? Are you going to make a template with variables to fill in, or should we just copy the template and fill it in as needed?
I think I have an idea how to do a vertical table with variables, but there really is no point, I think this way looks fine.
Side notes: did you change the formatting for sections? I don't recall having a horizontal line accompany each section before, but I could be wrong.
Is there a method for searching the uploaded file list that works better than the default? I've just been been looking at the list in 500 file segments and using browser-find lol.
Your link has a paren missing from the end of the URL. But that page looks sweet, that will definitely work. That is just a "how it looks" page right? Are you going to make a template with variables to fill in, or should we just copy the template and fill it in as needed?
Yes, this is what it will typically look like when it's filled out, all the fields will be filled out by variable parameters.
Quote from "Rousse" »
I think I have an idea how to do a vertical table with variables, but there really is no point, I think this way looks fine.
Well it's your call, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.
Quote from "Rousse" »
Side notes: did you change the formatting for sections? I don't recall having a horizontal line accompany each section before, but I could be wrong.
That was a changed by DoranM at my request yes. I felt it was hard to differentiate between 2 a 3 level headings, and it was indeed supposed to look like this originally.
Quote from "Rousse" »
Is there a method for searching the uploaded file list that works better than the default? I've just been been looking at the list in 500 file segments and using browser-find lol.
Added synergies, had completely forgotten about that. Currently all data has to be added manually, so it takes a while to complete.
I also utilized the citation system that w actually have, and included Seth's annotation as a source, but expanded a bit upon it.
Currently the table supports up to six pre-req skills (only Lower Resist has that many as far as I know) and up to four different variables. Mana cost and damage are always there, the others have to be specified. If the skills doesn't do any damage damage won't display. I couldn't have added all possible stats, as it would have required thousands of extra lines, so this is a much better solution. Check the code of the hydra page and the template if you wish
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Very nice Phrozen, I like the new one you made.
You put up the wrong link, though. You need to link in that bracket as well.
Btw, dunno if this has been suggested or not, but perhaps we could use that image of the skill tree as the main article for fire skills, then link the skill pages to their respective icons?
May take some programming, but if the wiki supports the Turing (Hardcore gimped language, huzzah!) programming language, I know a way that it can be done.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
You put up the wrong link, though. You need to link in that bracket as well.
God damn it!
Quote from "Zhar" »
Btw, dunno if this has been suggested or not, but perhaps we could use that image of the skill tree as the main article for fire skills, then link the skill pages to their respective icons?
It was suggested by zhuge actually, and it is possible in wikipedia with an extension installed as far as I understand. Will see if we can't get that into the wiki.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
You can take the variables sequentially from the user so it is easier to put them in, but then just line them up like that in your output. I think you'd have to do formatting on each 'level' cell if you wanted to change the font size or something for emphasis.
For the skills trees though, I really like what you've done and don't think it merits an overhaul at this point
On images, how are you guys getting the skill icon & tab files? Are you pulling them out of the game files? If so is there a naming convention for them? I have an MPQ viewier/extractor, but uh, some of Blizz's naming conventions are a bit hard to fiigure out (unless i'm looking in the wrong place)
You can take the variables sequentially from the user so it is easier to put them in, but then just line them up like that in your output. I think you'd have to do formatting on each 'level' cell if you wanted to change the font size or something for emphasis.
While it would increase readability for 1024 viewers, I think it would have a deteriorating effect for all other resolutions, as they effectively would have to scroll, while at present that is not necessary.
Of course you could always split that into two columns as well, but then that's no better than what we currently have.
Quote from "Rousse" »
On images, how are you guys getting the skill icon & tab files? Are you pulling them out of the game files? If so is there a naming convention for them? I have an MPQ viewier/extractor, but uh, some of Blizz's naming conventions are a bit hard to fiigure out (unless i'm looking in the wrong place)
Well I think Seth screenshots the tabs, but that's a guess.
I extract all images from the game files. And yes, there is a naming convention. I recommend you use Dr Tester however, it's located in the zip file in this thread unless I mistake myself: http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17818
It allows you to view images directly before extracting them. Skill icons have to be converted from .gif files however, as all icons for one class are stored in one .gif image.
Quote from "Absolut" »
I was able to find those pics of a clean screenshot with the class name for each class. I hope that is helpful and something you consider keeping.
What pictures exacly?
Quote from "Seth" »
Holy crap, Phrozen, that new Hydra page is a lot more informative. I like that a lot. It's also laid out very clearly and logically.
Thanks. So are we basically happy with the structure now?
The one thing missing is a breakpoint notice for the max level, but I think it will do itself better as a piece of text in the necessary articles instead of being a part of the ksill template itself.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Thanks. So are we basically happy with the structure now?
The one thing missing is a breakpoint notice for the max level, but I think it will do itself better as a piece of text in the necessary articles instead of being a part of the ksill template itself.
Yea it looks fine to me. Just about time to start slaving away at these things.
Thanks for the info on the images. I'm now a proud owner of a few folders full of a few dozen split gifs of skill icons lol. Skill tabs look like they have to be SS'd though, the gif stores it in pieces, and is obviously without the skill icons. No biggie.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
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Can't two rows would out better though somehow? I think I might experiment with that, see how it will look at least.
I think it would work fine if you put a delimiter between them, a break line perhaps. The only problem I see is a skill like Molten Boulder, that has variable mana cost, damage, fire damage, and avg dmg per sec. Thats two 5 row tables, could look a bit big, but it would probably be fine.
have you tried doing it in a top down format?
ie
instead of
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
xxxxxx
make it
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxx
Yea, I was assuming that would be in it, but the question is how does it look with that big table? I think phrozen is going for a moderately small page for each skill, and the image eats up a good chunk of width & height.
I created a test using my Sandbox that shows what molten boulder would look like using 2 10 level tables, and all the exact formatting phrozen had in the original, except I changed the text to center aligned. Its kinda big, kinda bulky, but every skill is there, and easy to find. I think it works, but the table is bigger than the rest of the info, looks a bit odd.
I see what you mean. It looks a little moshed up, but perhaps if the levels were emphasized more it would look better? Altenratively we could also skip the second header that says level 11-20, that could perhaps make it a little less bulky.
Yea, removing both headings and using the level row as a break seems to make it quite a bit more compact: Sandbox.
Not sure if you want the table lacking a header though.
Though as of now, that's no good either, since you can't clearly see where the levels row is either.
Yea, even with the larger text the level row just doesn't "pop" enough.
I'm not sure how to do the vertical table idea, at least not easily.
*Edit* just came across something else. The skill tree pages. I don't think we need a template, Seth's example with the sorc skills works very well. http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Cold_Spells
I think it works quite well. Tested it for 1152x864 and it looks good, only 1024x78 gets a little tight. Still, I don't really know how to implement a verttical idea in a good way, so unless yo give me an idea there I don't really know what to do.
Tell me if you have any gripes with this setup so we can get to implementing the skill pages finally.
That definately looks good. We can go with that.
Your link has a paren missing from the end of the URL. But that page looks sweet, that will definitely work. That is just a "how it looks" page right? Are you going to make a template with variables to fill in, or should we just copy the template and fill it in as needed?
I think I have an idea how to do a vertical table with variables, but there really is no point, I think this way looks fine.
Side notes: did you change the formatting for sections? I don't recall having a horizontal line accompany each section before, but I could be wrong.
Is there a method for searching the uploaded file list that works better than the default? I've just been been looking at the list in 500 file segments and using browser-find lol.
Well it's your call, but I wouldn't mind seeing it.
That was a changed by DoranM at my request yes. I felt it was hard to differentiate between 2 a 3 level headings, and it was indeed supposed to look like this originally.
Yes. Check out the Category:Browse and look under images. Originally almost all images were uncategorized, but back in June I think I organized almost all of them. The ones that aren't yet in a category are visible here http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Special:UncategorizedImages
EDIT:
Ok, remade the page into a template and reformatted the Hydra page with it: http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Hydra_(Diablo_II)
Added synergies, had completely forgotten about that. Currently all data has to be added manually, so it takes a while to complete.
I also utilized the citation system that w actually have, and included Seth's annotation as a source, but expanded a bit upon it.
Currently the table supports up to six pre-req skills (only Lower Resist has that many as far as I know) and up to four different variables. Mana cost and damage are always there, the others have to be specified. If the skills doesn't do any damage damage won't display. I couldn't have added all possible stats, as it would have required thousands of extra lines, so this is a much better solution. Check the code of the hydra page and the template if you wish
http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Hydra_(Diablo_II)
http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Template:Infobox_Skills_(Diablo_II)
You put up the wrong link, though. You need to link in that bracket as well.
Btw, dunno if this has been suggested or not, but perhaps we could use that image of the skill tree as the main article for fire skills, then link the skill pages to their respective icons?
May take some programming, but if the wiki supports the Turing (Hardcore gimped language, huzzah!) programming language, I know a way that it can be done.
It was suggested by zhuge actually, and it is possible in wikipedia with an extension installed as far as I understand. Will see if we can't get that into the wiki.
All you would really have to do is invert the rows & columns inside your template. It would look something like:
!- Level || Damage || Mana
|- 1 || dmg1 || m1
|- 2 || dmg2 || m2
You can take the variables sequentially from the user so it is easier to put them in, but then just line them up like that in your output. I think you'd have to do formatting on each 'level' cell if you wanted to change the font size or something for emphasis.
For the skills trees though, I really like what you've done and don't think it merits an overhaul at this point
On images, how are you guys getting the skill icon & tab files? Are you pulling them out of the game files? If so is there a naming convention for them? I have an MPQ viewier/extractor, but uh, some of Blizz's naming conventions are a bit hard to fiigure out (unless i'm looking in the wrong place)
Of course you could always split that into two columns as well, but then that's no better than what we currently have.
Well I think Seth screenshots the tabs, but that's a guess.
I extract all images from the game files. And yes, there is a naming convention. I recommend you use Dr Tester however, it's located in the zip file in this thread unless I mistake myself: http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17818
It allows you to view images directly before extracting them. Skill icons have to be converted from .gif files however, as all icons for one class are stored in one .gif image.
What pictures exacly?
Thanks. So are we basically happy with the structure now?
The one thing missing is a breakpoint notice for the max level, but I think it will do itself better as a piece of text in the necessary articles instead of being a part of the ksill template itself.
Yea it looks fine to me. Just about time to start slaving away at these things.
Thanks for the info on the images. I'm now a proud owner of a few folders full of a few dozen split gifs of skill icons lol. Skill tabs look like they have to be SS'd though, the gif stores it in pieces, and is obviously without the skill icons. No biggie.
I'd say good to go with what you've created.