I think the main problem with the game is Melee damage atm, there are a lot of builds with other classes that work realy well to some point. For example Sunwuko Build (i have a DH & MONK) its really fun but u can't roll without dual unitiy on higher grifts, and by higher i mean 25-28... where on those grifts my DH is facerolling it. Once you get dual unity sure, you can to some point farm gr35 or 36...
I, for example can't play with friends using my monk, unless i change it to support. Because of unity buff. There is no point on having a melee dps currently on party play.
Thats why i think they need to buff the melee reduction damage. If melees got permantent dual-unity-type buff, the game should feel more balanced.
They'd have to increase the DR on Melee form 30% to something like 65% in order for it to feel "balanced". And even then "hybrid ranged" builds would still be worthless (since they're played by the traditionally ranged classes, who have no DR).
On the other hand they could just flatten damage scaling past GRift 30, or remove it altogether. That agffects ALL builds that rely on having to be hit, including "hybrid ranged" and channeling builds.
Completly agree
If they increased DR on melees to something like %65 melees could have a chance on higher grifts group play playing as dps.
Missing my point entirely. Yes melee would work. No that is not the correct solution because Channeling and midrange still won't work. And everyone is still eventually being one shot by the mid 40s regardless of toughness.
I think the main problem with the game is Melee damage atm, there are a lot of builds with other classes that work realy well to some point. For example Sunwuko Build (i have a DH & MONK) its really fun but u can't roll without dual unitiy on higher grifts, and by higher i mean 25-28... where on those grifts my DH is facerolling it. Once you get dual unity sure, you can to some point farm gr35 or 36...
I, for example can't play with friends using my monk, unless i change it to support. Because of unity buff. There is no point on having a melee dps currently on party play.
Thats why i think they need to buff the melee reduction damage. If melees got permantent dual-unity-type buff, the game should feel more balanced.
They'd have to increase the DR on Melee form 30% to something like 65% in order for it to feel "balanced". And even then "hybrid ranged" builds would still be worthless (since they're played by the traditionally ranged classes, who have no DR).
On the other hand they could just flatten damage scaling past GRift 30, or remove it altogether. That agffects ALL builds that rely on having to be hit, including "hybrid ranged" and channeling builds.
Call me when you try it and find out that you're wrong.
When you get 15% to "x" skill, you aren't taking the skills damage and multiplying it by that percentage, you are enhancing the skills percentage by THAT percent.
So again, Shield bash does 700%, adding 100 more makes it 800%, not 1400%. I have it, it SUCKS. It doesn't even come close to the Damage output of Infinite Champion + Shotgun with Infinite resource. It's.not.even.close. My crits with Fist of the Heavens are 15 million, switching to a better damage 2 hander over my ONE HAND DARKLIGHT AND stacking physical, my crits on a skill with a HIGHER base damage were LOWER because AC wasn't on.
Shield Bash was critting for 8 million with a 39% physical damage heart slaugher with 3508 dps, with 20% physical bracers, critting for LESS than 2.1k DPS darklight and 20% lightning damage, because of Champion.
And double a SHIT attack speed is STILL a shit attack speed.
GG, noob.
Now show me a Rolands build that's using a 3993 DPS Fate of the Fell. You can't compete, I'm getting more DPS out of my weapon then you are gaining with 100% attack speed.
I have the entire set twice over, nearly 3 times over and some pieces 5 times over. I have Ak's too. I compared them.
I have a heartslaughter with 3500 damage and 29% physical. Rolands sucks.
First off. You're absolutely wrong (as others have pointed out)about the way skill damage and elemental damage scales.
Second off: Akkan absolutely cannot compete with Roland's for increaisng DPS. It doesn'e even come close. Roland's ramps to essentially quadruple DPS with shield bash, Akkan's best case scenario is roughly +70% and it requires giving up the actual benefit of akkan (using Prophet).
You're not comparing Akkan to Roland. You're comparing an abolutely mediocre Heartslaughter Shieldbasher to a near perfect Fate of The Fell Shotgunner. That's no contest, the 2700% weapon damage ranged AoE shotgun blast is going to absolutely shit on the maximal 2000% weapon damage melee cone.
Roland's quadruples effective weapon DPS with Shield bash. Fate of the Fell triples effective weapon damage with Heaven's Fury. It happens that Fury has better AoE and better base damage than just about every Shieldbash rune, and that's why the one does more damage than the other. Of course nothing says you can;t use FotF with Shield Bash as the ray of doom and get the best of both. But you know.
You're not actually examining what you're doing. You're bashing on something that you barely understand the mechanics of. If Shieldbash had aweapon on par with FotF for slot (and no, heartslaughter isn't even close) it would make holy shotgun look like a joke. The sad truth is that Akkan has one of the (if not the) weakest DPS bonuses of any 6p set. It just happens that Crusader weapons and shields kick ass.
Keep in mind too, that Roland's is NEW, it was intended to compete with AK's, but it just can't, because they fail to see the damage + toughness explosion you get from 100% uptime in Champion, that in order to compete, they'd have to bump rolands down to 4 pc, redesign invoker to give you crazy toughness, and add 10% damage to each of those sets. That's the only way it could compete.
Roland's total DPS bonus is so much better than Akkan's it's not evena contest. The reaosn Roland's is bad is because it requires using a build that is melee, not because the DPS bonus isn't competitive.
Roland's provides quadruple DPS with Shield Bash or Sweep. Roland's would be plenty competitive if melee wasn't suicide after rift level 31.
Since when is DOUBLING your attack speed QUADRUPLING your damage?
The 100% on shield bash does not DOUBLE shield bash, it's additive. Shield bash does 700% +300% your block chance. Rolands makes it do 800% + 300% your block chance, and doubles your attack speed, so it gives you double damage +100 weapon damage. Also the 100% damage bonus on sweep attack does not enhance the damage of shield bash, so it's not 200% multiplicative damage + Double attack speed. It's 100% additive damage + double attack speed, which pretty much enhances your damage by ONE THIRD, instead of 400% which is quadruple.
1/3rd is 33%, Akarat's Champion gives you 20%, having Perma Champion gives you 20% damage all the time [13% less than rolands] but gives you UNLIMITED resource, and frees up a skill slot on your bar since you don't need a generator. Running around with a 3900 dps Fate of the Fell, with a 20% permanent damage bonus and a 20% virtually permanent damage bonus from shield glare [since you have 55.8% CDR it's up all the time + a hellfire with towering shield, it's 100% uptime] FAR EXCEEDS that 13% extra damage while you have resource. Lets not forget that running around in Ak's lets you have perma prophet, which gives you around 30 million toughness ALL THE TIME AND also brings you back from the dead once every 30 seconds.
Akhans = 20+20=40 100% up time, Rolands = 33+20=53 25% uptime. The 40 is ALL THE TIME, the 53 is just when you have an enemy under shield glare and have all 5 stacks on the bash.
Roland's can't even come close to the DPS output, the only time it did, was when the Attack Speed was bugged on Heart Slaughter in PTR, which allowed rolands to ramp up to 9 attacks per second with that slow ass 2 hander. They fixed that before they launched the game. When you look on the Grift leaderboards and see the top 3 saders wearing Roland's, they are just HIDING their gear, they aren't using Roland's. Nobody is, because it sucks.
Rolands would be amazing with IAS everywhere, if you had a 3.0 attackspeed before Roland's doubled it, you'd be sitting pretty, the problem is, you can't have good damage with attack speed on gear, and all the fast one handers have broken low damage.
Now, If you're attacks per second were 6.0, i'd concede you'd need less damage to advance, because you're hitting way more often, so on hit procs would be better, but in order to have any kind of toughness with rolands, you need to have around 50k LoH, and you can't use Laws of Valor - Invincible to do it, since you need to use Unstoppable force so you don't run out of wrath.
So the problem with rolands is, you need to have IAS/Crit Chance/Crit Damage/Mainstat/Cooldown Reduction/50k LoH and you still need to somehow cram in toughness stats and 3 sockets on your jewelry. It requires WAY too many stats to even match AK's damage from Akhan's set + FoTF, and when I say way too many, what I mean to say is -- It's UNOBTAINABLE. There is currently 0 way to make it work.
I'm currently sitting on 2 entire sets of Rolands with a pretty beast heart slaughter and a perfect Piru Mirella and it can't even come close to matching the damage of me running around in Champion with 6 seconds down time using LIGHTNING Fist of the Heavens - Fissure. Not even CLOSE, and the damage I do with this funky off build is enough to steam roll T6 like it's normal mode, and this is just a FRACTION of the damage that I could do if I min/maxed towards Holy Shotgun. [Which I'm doing, I have a 3900 DPS FotF/Hellskull, ready to go -- I just need to hit the break point on CDR so I don't run out of wrath.]
Roland's DPS output can't even come within 30% of the damage output, let alone "Quadruple." You don't understand the game,and have NO idea what you're talking about. Which is EXACTLY the case with everyone saying M6 is "Fine."
You're all NOOBS.
You obviously don't know how skill damage bonuses work. +100% skill damage is a x2 multiplier.
Keep in mind too, that Roland's is NEW, it was intended to compete with AK's, but it just can't, because they fail to see the damage + toughness explosion you get from 100% uptime in Champion, that in order to compete, they'd have to bump rolands down to 4 pc, redesign invoker to give you crazy toughness, and add 10% damage to each of those sets. That's the only way it could compete.
Roland's total DPS bonus is so much better than Akkan's it's not evena contest. The reaosn Roland's is bad is because it requires using a build that is melee, not because the DPS bonus isn't competitive.
Roland's provides quadruple DPS with Shield Bash or Sweep. Roland's would be plenty competitive if melee wasn't suicide after rift level 31.
DHs being multiple Greater Rift levels above other classes is being regarded as a "slight problem". To the devs, the issue isn't just their damage but their sustain, how they can avoid most damage and that their Sentries can't die.
was on mian page 2days ago i think
41 DH vs 40 lvl barb or wiz ? Multiple indeed...
The question is how comparable is the gear to get those numbers. Given the scaling and a DH having a 2 rift lead in the rankings is the gear at all comparable?
The question is not "how wide is the gap" but rather "how wide is the gap compared to scaling and accounting for gear differences"
Nerf sentries buff other areas. Mara6 shouldn't be the "only" build DHs want to use.
got any good suggesstions? I my self only made a dh to wreck through t6 and greater rifts, when my support monk isnt needed
Suggestion for builds? No. I don;t play a whole lot. Suggestions for changes? Sure.
Buff generator damage a lot. Buff spender damage some. Reduce sentries as you suggested, spenders cast by sentries recieveing a minor damage nerf (20% or so). Provide new ways to get Dodge (because why not). More specific would require more playtime but I have a basic grasp of the "problem" with non-sentry builds.
On the other hand they could just flatten damage scaling past GRift 30, or remove it altogether. That agffects ALL builds that rely on having to be hit, including "hybrid ranged" and channeling builds.
Second off: Akkan absolutely cannot compete with Roland's for increaisng DPS. It doesn'e even come close. Roland's ramps to essentially quadruple DPS with shield bash, Akkan's best case scenario is roughly +70% and it requires giving up the actual benefit of akkan (using Prophet).
You're not comparing Akkan to Roland. You're comparing an abolutely mediocre Heartslaughter Shieldbasher to a near perfect Fate of The Fell Shotgunner. That's no contest, the 2700% weapon damage ranged AoE shotgun blast is going to absolutely shit on the maximal 2000% weapon damage melee cone.
Roland's quadruples effective weapon DPS with Shield bash. Fate of the Fell triples effective weapon damage with Heaven's Fury. It happens that Fury has better AoE and better base damage than just about every Shieldbash rune, and that's why the one does more damage than the other. Of course nothing says you can;t use FotF with Shield Bash as the ray of doom and get the best of both. But you know.
You're not actually examining what you're doing. You're bashing on something that you barely understand the mechanics of. If Shieldbash had aweapon on par with FotF for slot (and no, heartslaughter isn't even close) it would make holy shotgun look like a joke. The sad truth is that Akkan has one of the (if not the) weakest DPS bonuses of any 6p set. It just happens that Crusader weapons and shields kick ass.
Double damage.
Double attack speed.
4x total DPS.
Roland's provides quadruple DPS with Shield Bash or Sweep. Roland's would be plenty competitive if melee wasn't suicide after rift level 31.
The question is not "how wide is the gap" but rather "how wide is the gap compared to scaling and accounting for gear differences"
Buff generator damage a lot. Buff spender damage some. Reduce sentries as you suggested, spenders cast by sentries recieveing a minor damage nerf (20% or so). Provide new ways to get Dodge (because why not). More specific would require more playtime but I have a basic grasp of the "problem" with non-sentry builds.