Sorry, thought the previous post (where I explained by putting the Born in MH and Sun Keeper in OH, you are able to roll an extra USEFUL dps stat on the Sun Keeper as opposed to vice-versa) would still be somewhat fresh in your mind. Anyway, was just trying to be helpful with some hard numbers from that calculation site that show in some cases, the higher dps range weapon might not always be the most optimal (and again, I'm assuming that website knows what its doing, heh).
Just another quick note since I have a specific number.
Using www.d3robot.com, seems that an additional 170 weapon dps would only equate to about a 3% increase in damage. I think in this case, the xtra socket would already surpass that 3% increase in damage, so even if the Sun Keeper were max damage, I would still put it in the OH to gain those extra stats (this is assuming d3robot's calculation is correct of course).
What Ashes said, but a lot of it is mitigation & avoidance as well, and I don't take very much damage to begin with since I'm just constantly leaping around dropping earthquakes and then in the short amount of leap downtime, just running around the edges collecting health globes/opening junk. Remember, when you're up in the air, you're not taking damage, so the more you leap the less damage you take as well. Without really focusing on healing, i'm at just under 16k Life per Second (paragon + item), 8.8k Life per Kill, and 4.1k Life per Hit (which does work with earthquake). This is more than enough that I can run with all offensive passives in T4, and in T5 I usually switch to either Life Regen - Shout passive or Superstition.
Another thing that helps quite a bit are all my pets soaking up a lot of damage too. CotA + Follower, and I also have my Golden Gorget Amulet. While the AI is INFURIATING on the skellies that spawn (the archers are of minor use, the melee ones... I don't think they've ever hit anything), it seems the proc can overlap, meaning tons of skellies that distract the enemy. A lot of people hate this item since the skellies don't spawn until after you're done with battle, but its nice that you go into the next fight avoiding a bit of damage from a pack.
*EDIT*
One more thing, 'leaping properly' really helps at avoiding a ton of damage as well, but is something that you can really only get comfortable with with experience. What I mean by this is leaping at edges of packs, not right in the middle. This especially helps if its a dangerous elite pack, but then in this case you use your 3rd leap to drop an earthquake right at the edge of your current 2 other eq's. That way you're out of danger and the elite paths towards you, running through the 2 eq's. You're up in the air by the time they even reach you, and out of danger again. I know this sounds simple and appears to be common sense, but it seems a lot of people's survivability issues seem to stem from being lazy and simply leaping right in the middle of everything, and then getting stuck.
OH YEAH! FOLLOWER! So I use templar and have cooldown reduction stacked on him too, so that's templar healing x2 (heal skill and charge/heal), and also health pot, so about 3 heals on every 25 second window or so, in addition to the other passive healing.
**EDIT** sorry, I'm pretty wordy. Also, don't mean to hijack OP's post! Just tossing in my comments in the spirit of sharing
A few comments/replies, and again, I'm being a bit more specific on what type of FireEQ Barb when talking about equip (CDR), as that build is so far the most experienced/most successful I've been able to run with the gear I've found so far.
@lsdrydge: I agree Aughild is great to use (especially since mats are easy to obtain/craftable), but I'd say specifically for a CDR Barb, its not considered in the optimal gear set. The main reason being that while you'd only need to equip 2 slots (assuming RoRG), the item stats you can of course get off other pieces, so that'd be a wash already (no 'special' affixes for its item slots). So then we look at the bonus: 2 set - 7% melee & ranged reduction, 3 set - 15% increased elite damage, 15% decreased damage from elites. Now based on testing from wonderful theorycrafters, the reduced melee and ranged doesn't work (or is not supposed to work) with the majority of elite affixes (was a post on dfans a few days ago). Additionally, you shouldn't be needing that reduction for white mobs, so we can consider the 2 set pretty useless (so your additive 22% damage reduction is really 15%). Now for the 3 set. More elite damage is of course always sexy, since its on a different multiplier from other bonus dmg sources (again, info from players). However to lose out on 2 possible item procs for that 15% xtra elite dmg just doesn't seem to be optimal (with MotE + Augh, most likely using bracer slot for augh, as well as possibly chest for the other off-piece). There are TONS of sexy bracers, and just as an example with my gear, the Strongarm Bracers would give a minimum of 20% dmg from its lowest proc roll (not to mention the other bracers that may help with Survivability or other niche builds). So yes, definitely great to use, easy to obtain, but I think end-game/T6 wise, there are definitely better options (should they drop of course). But gear-progression wise, this should definitely be one of the first 'off-sets' you can use.
As for optimal CDR, I believe some theorycrafters stated that with a Fury Spender in your EQ build, you should ideally be trying to hit ~40% CDR (although I can't remember if this is after DR or raw CDR stat), which equates to a gem, paragon CDR, and 2-3 equip. slots with CDR. As for a CDR based Barb, you know my feelings on CDR... MOAR!
@zwangsneurose: See above for why no Aughild. As for 2-Hander, I'd say the 2 main reasons for preferring 1-handers:
1) Lack of SEXY 2H Legs - Really, aside from the IK-2H (which you can get %EQ dmg) or Maximus, there is a lack of good 2-handers. Some viable options could include Burst of Wrath for Fury Spender builds (proc: chance to gain 20% resource on kill/object destruction), Cinder Switch (% fire dmg & fireball proc), The Furnace (% fire dmg & proc of 6-8% dmg based on enemy current health). But again, I'd say none of these are as optimal as Maximus (that fire chain.... if you haven't played around with it yet.... do it... In my crap gear, I get about 3-4mil ticks). Additionally, if you follow my build/gear setup and have Yan's pants, you're going to be moving around a lot anyway, meaning getting more enemies to hit that fire chain. I'd even venture to say that Maximus would be the ONLY viable 2H to be used for EQ, however I still can't say if the extra weapon damage washes out the additional stat gains of an extra weapon (I haven't seen anything concrete, just many opinions without concrete numbers, but I still lean towards 2 1-handers until proven wrong).
@Dick3cy: Since the last patch, I've heard fantastic things about Cold EQ Barbs. Is your link your current gear setup/skills? As you mentioned, definitely tons of room for improvement for gear, but if you're able to do T6 cleanly with that current setup, seems very promising and would love to get some more info.
@sgtmajfoley: I used WW for a bit with EQ for t2/t3, but found that the damage just couldn't compete in higher T-levels (others seem to have said this as well). Also, correct use of EQ-set should be more than enough 'escape' skill, and to use WW just to escape seems like a wasted skill slot? Burning Axe & Devestator is great, used that til I switched to Born/Sun Keeper. Hopefully the proc's uptime on Burning Axe isn't considered a bug and won't be nerfed. However, I switched to Born/Sun Keeper simply because after using Yan Pants and leaping correctly, I found I really wasn't being hit as much, and couldn't benefit from the proc as much. I have to absolutely disagree on Thunderfury though, as again, you are giving up too many stats to use it for the proc (of course, this doesn't stop you from tossing it on your follower, which is what I do, to still gain the proc benefit )
@orcjmr & OP: I'd also like to know what he means. Maybe he's mistaken, as off of Nubtros's spreadsheet, did not see anything of that effect.
@Washi: Yes, that is an extreme example based on the item I was able to find, however as I mentioned in my previous post with the breakdown, More CDR = More Leaping = More EQx3. I'd say it would be just as important, if not moreso. Again, my assumptions/calculations might be wrong (I think I'm like... 75% sure I'm right though? Heh), and its of course always fine to disagree, but would love to see some info/description for your position.
@Barb4life: Not sure if you're saying my build is garbage, or the OP's post is garbage. To be fair, he didn't really post a build, but rather presented skill/gear options and his opinion on why he thinks certain ones are viable or not. As for my build possibly being garbage, yes, its very possible. However based on the gear I've been able to find and use, this seems to be the most optimal in terms of kill speed for me. If you'd like to critique my build with your explanation on why you think something isn't viable, more than happy to hear!
On a separate note, I noticed you've had some experience with Boulder barbs (absolutely loved it, used it for t1/t2). Originally I wasn't too sold on EQ set (mostly because it felt clunky with the lack of CDR), so was doing Boulder Barb. My main issue was fury generation (of course), and the amount of stats needed to make it viable (phys dmg %, elite dmg %, chc, chd, fury, and possibly as% & area dmg) but wanted to try again once I got IK set and 300th spear, and use the fury rune. Any chance you have a build you could recommend?
Thanks for the reply Washi.Had meant to link my profile before, but didn't have my authenticator. but here it is (for lysdrydge too!): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/microweive-1540/hero/32166923 (the profile doesn't calculate in the 10% CDR bonus from Born, I think actual CDR for me is 60.2%)
A few comments;
tl;dr - Main Hand Born, Off Hand Sun Keeper gives me more CHD and CDR, letting me leap more, EQ more, and use all my cooldown-based skills more. IMHO, this far outweighs the gain from 170.5 weapon damage (and possibly 8% Elite Dmg, as described below) for a CDR FireEQ Barb.
1) As you can see from my profile, I got a pretty crappy rolled Sun Keeper, so in this case, yes, my sword is better than my mace. Also, yes, a lot of my gear is horrible and there were times I rolled the WRONG stat to enchant (le sigh). However, even with this less than ideal setup, I'm able to do T5 in about ~12min (when I have good latency... and by good i mean ~250ms... damn you China...). I do switch around a few skills and passives when doing T5, the setup I have on now with the passives and skill is for T4. Also, my paper DPS is LOWWWWWW, but it just further reinforces my point that a CDR-FireEQ Barb is pretty balls-to-the-walls (plenty of +dmg modifiers though).
2) Also, I was speaking more in terms of a build prioritizing Cooldown Reduction, and trying to squeeze every drop of that stat, which means having to put the Sun Keeper in the OH, even though assuming perfect rolls for both, yes, the weapon dmg would be higher than the sword and with other builds, that would be the case. But to support my point, lets compare having Born & Sun Keeper in different hands:
**quick note, the stats I consider my 'ideal' are based on the above priority in my previous post, which focuses on CDR, Fire/EQ Dmg, Elite Dmg, then CHC & CHD. Also, for simplicity's sake, just going to use max numbers. I AM IN NO WAY A THEORYCRAFTER(IST?) and most of my calculations are based on other website dmg calculators/spreadsheets that seem to be fairly updated, so I am assuming they know what they're doing. If anyone can verify 100% below, or tell me what I'm doing wrong, gladly appreciated**
MH: Sun Keeper - set stats: 1515-2075 HolyDmg, 750 Str, 30%EliteDmg, 1 Open Stat (must choose either Socket:130%CritDmg or 10% CDR)
OH: Born's - set stats: 4 Open (Ideally 750 Str, 10% CDR, Socket, and 8%EliteDmg)
vs
MH: Born's - set stats: 4 Open (Ideally 1367-1882 HolyDmg, 750 Str, 10% CDR, Socket)
OH: Sun Keeper - set stats: 1515-2075 HolyDmg (enchant to Socket or 10% CDR), 750 Str, 30%EliteDmg, and Socket or 10% CDR (whichever rolls)
So with SK/B in MH/OH respectively, one gains 170.5dmg (max+min/2), 8%EliteDmg, but has to make a choice between CritDmg or CDR. Now, in trying to keep a 1:10 ration of CHC:CHD, the socket is an important choice, so let's assume we choose that, losing out on 10% CDR, since CDR has diminishing returns anyway, and with that extra 10% CDR, you'd only gain actually gain about 5%CDR. As opposed to having 2 sockets (260%CHD) and 20% CDR with B/SK in MH/OH respectively, but losing out on 170.5 dmg, and 8%EliteDmg. I'd say that extra socket more than washes out the 8%EliteDmg. But that 170.5dmg is tasty, right? Especially when you consider its only giving up 5% CDR.... BUUUUUUUTTTT... that 5% CDR is actually quite a bit. Consider this:
Max CDR with SK/B: 57.96% /// Leap Downtime: 2.7 seconds
Max CDR with B/SK: 62.16% /// Leap Downtime: 2.28 seconds
Still doesn't seem like much eh? Well, over a minute, that equates to 4 additional leaps, or 12 Earthquakes. On an average/acceptable rift clear, lets say 10 minutes, 40 additional leaps, 120 earthquakes... I can only assume (and again, I realize this is very very basic napkin math that I'm doing) that those extra leaps far outweigh the incremental 170.5dmg gained per earthquake from having Sun Keeper in the MH. (And yes, I realize that 'incremental' is actually quite a bit for 170.5dmg after all buff modifiers are added in, but I still can't believe that those extra earthquakes isn't worth giving that dmg up). If anyone can do the actual math, I would really love to see if my assumption is correct. Again, most of your skills will be Cooldown based, so that extra CDR% also means more WotB uptime, more CotA uptime, more Ignore Pain uptime, meaning MOAR DAMAGE.
Now I realize that we could give up the extra socket instead, and simply have the Sun Keeper with CDR% in the MH, but again, based on my napkin math, it seems to hurt your dps more than putting it in your OH. The reason is based on my stat priorities and ideal gear setup, a CDR Barb lacks a LOT in Crit Hit Dmg. Essentially, you can only get it on 2 or 3 slots (one of them NOT being the amulet), which means you're looking at about 100-150% CHD. An average Barb should be running with at least 30% crit chance (and this is VERY low), which means we need a LOT of help in hitting that ideal 1:10 CHC:CHD ratio. Without that extra socket, you're missing out on 130% CHD. (Now again, I'm making some very broad assumptions, such as how important it is to hit that 1:10 ratio, and would love to see the actual math for it).
Hopefully this addresses your concerns? Again, we're talking specifically about a CDR FireEQ Barb. The additional gains from being able to have both weapons socketed and 20% CDR would in this case outweigh the simple gain of weapon damage.
**EDIT** Did some more crappy napkin math. Seems that the 170.5dmg would equate to about 10% of your characters dmg assuming max stats(dmg, not dps). Even with that, I'd still hold by my case that more uptime on earthquakes and WotB, not to mention other skills, is better than equipping Sun Keeper in MH (again, for this case).
Great guide, I've been looking for a more comprehensive Fire-EQ guide, and was considering writing one up myself til I saw this one.
I previously ran a complete fire build with MotE, but switched to a CDR based build and have found 'great success' with it (before could only do T4 with CDR of about 30%, now doing T5 with avg. rolled gear focused on CDR). Will link to my toon once I get home, but in the meantime:
Mandatory Skills:
EQ - Molten Fury (max EQ dmg)
Leap - Call of Arreat (using Strongarm Bracers, plan on switching to Death from Above once Ancient Parthan Defenders are fixed)
WotB - Insanity (more dmg, and with ~60% CDR, downtime on WotB is about 17 seconds)
CotA - The Council Rises (even with crappy AI, great for taking down bosses/elites. With ~60% CDR, downtime is only about 6 seconds, and survivability seems OK in T5)
2 Free Active Skills depending on situation (see Daxypad's breakdown for which to use depending on your situation)
Passive 1 - Boon of Bul-Kathos (a must with CDR)
Passive 2 - Berserker Rage (25% dmg... you will have a LOT of uptime at max fury)
2 Free Passive Skills - (see Daxypad's breakdown for which to use depending on your situation)
My Current Gear:
MotE - Helm/Shoulder/Hands
Born - Chest/MH
Belt - Harrington
Pants - Yan's
Feet - Lut Socks
Rings - RoRG + SoJ
Bracers - Strongarm
OH - Sun Keeper
Amulet - Golden Gorget/Vaxo
I got some great rolls on the Golden Gorget which is the reason I'm using it, but ideally I should be using Vaxo (have one, but blech rolls). Also, once I get a Tasker, there will be some switching to get the most out of my pets (Vaxo + CotA).
Play-style Explained:
With my current ~60% CDR, I can leap every 4 seconds, downtime on WotB at 17 seconds, and 5 seconds downtime on CotA (if I'm able to get perfect CDR rolls, its 100% uptime for CotA WITHOUT using any IK). Anyway, unless its a VERY dense rift, CD's are usually up when fighting elites. The key to get the most out of Yan's is of course to KEEP MOVING (which you should be doing anyway, collecting health globes for CotA survival + popping chests/objects to get the Harrington buff). Survivability is decent since you're constantly moving (as long as you don't get 'greedy' with your leaps and use the last one to escape from the middle of packs). I'm also eager to try Ancient Parthan Defenders with Death From Above, as that should really help push me to T6 (assuming some additional minor upgrades). But with 2 free passives slots and 2 free skill slots, you can pretty much adjust to your gear. The key point is to choose skills that are based on COOLDOWNS, since you have all that lovely CDR (need to survive more? ignore pain, WotB with dmg reduction, CotA dmg reduction, and all those shouts, not to mention mixing/matching your 2 empty passive slots).
Stat Priority:
Str --> CDR --> % Fire Dmg --> % Elite Dmg (Sun Keeper 1H, possibly Halycon amulet) --> CHC % <--> CHD % --> Res. All <--> LpS <--> Vit
Some additional comments:
- As BFLI mentioned, MotE + Born set is awesome when stacking CDR and not using a spender(I'm currently at ~60% with the Born bonus). I'm currently using MotE Helm/Shoulder/Hands, with Born Sword/Chest and Yan legs. Just based on my own personal experience, this setup has given me the most efficient as opposed to others combos: MotE + IK (perma-COTA): Main issue is that one loses too many legs with item procs/% Fire Dmg. You end up with only 1 or 2 free slots for a 'good' leg slot (Weapons, Gloves, Belt, Pants). The problem here of course is that the slots that IK slots take up too many additional gear procs/dmg buffs to maximize for T5/T6. I do plan on revisiting this build once I'm able to get some Taskers and after the 2.1 pet AI improvement (MotE - Leg/Shoulder/Head, IK - Belt/Chest/2H + Tasker) but highly doubt if the loss of dual-wielding makes up for the IAS on Tasker for CotA)
MotE + Maximus: Yes, that fire chain is great dmg, but most importantly, I lose out on 20% cooldown reduction.
MotE + Aughild 2pc: See above and below. Lose out on cooldown reduction and additional dmg bonus (15% elite compared to possible 25% from Yan Pants).
MotE + Cindercoat/Magefist/1H Fire Weapon: Again, without a spender (and proper gearing, meaning keeping your max fury as low as possible so it fills up faster) Cindercoat's resource reduction doesn't really assist that much. As for replacing the possible 40% fire bonus you can get with Magefist + 1H Fire Weapon, the Yan pants roll a MINIMUM of 20% (up to 25%) increased dmg (in addition to the resource gen). Additionally, the Born Sword has no set properties, meaning you can get all the important stats on it and put it in your MH (str, socket, weapon dmg, and reduced CD) and assuming you have a Sun Keeper, you put that in your OH and can get Str, Elite Dmg, reduced CD, and a socket by re-rolling the weapon dmg to whatever of those 4 stats you don't get (I know, mace dmg > sword dmg, but unless you get close to a perfect roll on the stats, the difference should be negligable)
** QUESTIONS (some are probably really stupid.... humor me...) **
1) Am I correct in assuming that the EQ ticks update dynamically based on dmg buffs (ie, I drop an EQ, then I pop a chest with Harrington equipped while the original EQ is still going. Will the original EQ's damage get updated with the buff from Harrington, or is it only on a new EQ dropped). Couldn't find the answer to this in Nubtros or other posts, though I'd assume this is the case. Would just like to put it to rest in my brain.
2) Ancient Parthan Defenders ARE bugged right now for Barbs, correct? I think there's supposed to at least be a buff icon once activated?
3) Not a question, but I'm also always looking to improve as well as sharing with the community. If anyone has any comments/questions/criticisms specifically to my build, would be more than happy to answer/explain/listen to improvements.
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Using www.d3robot.com, seems that an additional 170 weapon dps would only equate to about a 3% increase in damage. I think in this case, the xtra socket would already surpass that 3% increase in damage, so even if the Sun Keeper were max damage, I would still put it in the OH to gain those extra stats (this is assuming d3robot's calculation is correct of course).
Another thing that helps quite a bit are all my pets soaking up a lot of damage too. CotA + Follower, and I also have my Golden Gorget Amulet. While the AI is INFURIATING on the skellies that spawn (the archers are of minor use, the melee ones... I don't think they've ever hit anything), it seems the proc can overlap, meaning tons of skellies that distract the enemy. A lot of people hate this item since the skellies don't spawn until after you're done with battle, but its nice that you go into the next fight avoiding a bit of damage from a pack.
*EDIT*
One more thing, 'leaping properly' really helps at avoiding a ton of damage as well, but is something that you can really only get comfortable with with experience. What I mean by this is leaping at edges of packs, not right in the middle. This especially helps if its a dangerous elite pack, but then in this case you use your 3rd leap to drop an earthquake right at the edge of your current 2 other eq's. That way you're out of danger and the elite paths towards you, running through the 2 eq's. You're up in the air by the time they even reach you, and out of danger again. I know this sounds simple and appears to be common sense, but it seems a lot of people's survivability issues seem to stem from being lazy and simply leaping right in the middle of everything, and then getting stuck.
OH YEAH! FOLLOWER! So I use templar and have cooldown reduction stacked on him too, so that's templar healing x2 (heal skill and charge/heal), and also health pot, so about 3 heals on every 25 second window or so, in addition to the other passive healing.
A few comments/replies, and again, I'm being a bit more specific on what type of FireEQ Barb when talking about equip (CDR), as that build is so far the most experienced/most successful I've been able to run with the gear I've found so far.
@lsdrydge: I agree Aughild is great to use (especially since mats are easy to obtain/craftable), but I'd say specifically for a CDR Barb, its not considered in the optimal gear set. The main reason being that while you'd only need to equip 2 slots (assuming RoRG), the item stats you can of course get off other pieces, so that'd be a wash already (no 'special' affixes for its item slots). So then we look at the bonus: 2 set - 7% melee & ranged reduction, 3 set - 15% increased elite damage, 15% decreased damage from elites. Now based on testing from wonderful theorycrafters, the reduced melee and ranged doesn't work (or is not supposed to work) with the majority of elite affixes (was a post on dfans a few days ago). Additionally, you shouldn't be needing that reduction for white mobs, so we can consider the 2 set pretty useless (so your additive 22% damage reduction is really 15%). Now for the 3 set. More elite damage is of course always sexy, since its on a different multiplier from other bonus dmg sources (again, info from players). However to lose out on 2 possible item procs for that 15% xtra elite dmg just doesn't seem to be optimal (with MotE + Augh, most likely using bracer slot for augh, as well as possibly chest for the other off-piece). There are TONS of sexy bracers, and just as an example with my gear, the Strongarm Bracers would give a minimum of 20% dmg from its lowest proc roll (not to mention the other bracers that may help with Survivability or other niche builds). So yes, definitely great to use, easy to obtain, but I think end-game/T6 wise, there are definitely better options (should they drop of course). But gear-progression wise, this should definitely be one of the first 'off-sets' you can use.
As for optimal CDR, I believe some theorycrafters stated that with a Fury Spender in your EQ build, you should ideally be trying to hit ~40% CDR (although I can't remember if this is after DR or raw CDR stat), which equates to a gem, paragon CDR, and 2-3 equip. slots with CDR. As for a CDR based Barb, you know my feelings on CDR... MOAR!
@zwangsneurose: See above for why no Aughild. As for 2-Hander, I'd say the 2 main reasons for preferring 1-handers:
1) Lack of SEXY 2H Legs - Really, aside from the IK-2H (which you can get %EQ dmg) or Maximus, there is a lack of good 2-handers. Some viable options could include Burst of Wrath for Fury Spender builds (proc: chance to gain 20% resource on kill/object destruction), Cinder Switch (% fire dmg & fireball proc), The Furnace (% fire dmg & proc of 6-8% dmg based on enemy current health). But again, I'd say none of these are as optimal as Maximus (that fire chain.... if you haven't played around with it yet.... do it... In my crap gear, I get about 3-4mil ticks). Additionally, if you follow my build/gear setup and have Yan's pants, you're going to be moving around a lot anyway, meaning getting more enemies to hit that fire chain. I'd even venture to say that Maximus would be the ONLY viable 2H to be used for EQ, however I still can't say if the extra weapon damage washes out the additional stat gains of an extra weapon (I haven't seen anything concrete, just many opinions without concrete numbers, but I still lean towards 2 1-handers until proven wrong).
@Dick3cy: Since the last patch, I've heard fantastic things about Cold EQ Barbs. Is your link your current gear setup/skills? As you mentioned, definitely tons of room for improvement for gear, but if you're able to do T6 cleanly with that current setup, seems very promising and would love to get some more info.
@sgtmajfoley: I used WW for a bit with EQ for t2/t3, but found that the damage just couldn't compete in higher T-levels (others seem to have said this as well). Also, correct use of EQ-set should be more than enough 'escape' skill, and to use WW just to escape seems like a wasted skill slot? Burning Axe & Devestator is great, used that til I switched to Born/Sun Keeper. Hopefully the proc's uptime on Burning Axe isn't considered a bug and won't be nerfed. However, I switched to Born/Sun Keeper simply because after using Yan Pants and leaping correctly, I found I really wasn't being hit as much, and couldn't benefit from the proc as much. I have to absolutely disagree on Thunderfury though, as again, you are giving up too many stats to use it for the proc (of course, this doesn't stop you from tossing it on your follower, which is what I do, to still gain the proc benefit
@orcjmr & OP: I'd also like to know what he means. Maybe he's mistaken, as off of Nubtros's spreadsheet, did not see anything of that effect.
@Washi: Yes, that is an extreme example based on the item I was able to find, however as I mentioned in my previous post with the breakdown, More CDR = More Leaping = More EQx3. I'd say it would be just as important, if not moreso. Again, my assumptions/calculations might be wrong (I think I'm like... 75% sure I'm right though? Heh), and its of course always fine to disagree, but would love to see some info/description for your position.
@Barb4life: Not sure if you're saying my build is garbage, or the OP's post is garbage. To be fair, he didn't really post a build, but rather presented skill/gear options and his opinion on why he thinks certain ones are viable or not. As for my build possibly being garbage, yes, its very possible. However based on the gear I've been able to find and use, this seems to be the most optimal in terms of kill speed for me. If you'd like to critique my build with your explanation on why you think something isn't viable, more than happy to hear!
On a separate note, I noticed you've had some experience with Boulder barbs (absolutely loved it, used it for t1/t2). Originally I wasn't too sold on EQ set (mostly because it felt clunky with the lack of CDR), so was doing Boulder Barb. My main issue was fury generation (of course), and the amount of stats needed to make it viable (phys dmg %, elite dmg %, chc, chd, fury, and possibly as% & area dmg) but wanted to try again once I got IK set and 300th spear, and use the fury rune. Any chance you have a build you could recommend?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/microweive-1540/hero/32166923 (the profile doesn't calculate in the 10% CDR bonus from Born, I think actual CDR for me is 60.2%)
A few comments;
tl;dr - Main Hand Born, Off Hand Sun Keeper gives me more CHD and CDR, letting me leap more, EQ more, and use all my cooldown-based skills more. IMHO, this far outweighs the gain from 170.5 weapon damage (and possibly 8% Elite Dmg, as described below) for a CDR FireEQ Barb.
1) As you can see from my profile, I got a pretty crappy rolled Sun Keeper, so in this case, yes, my sword is better than my mace. Also, yes, a lot of my gear is horrible and there were times I rolled the WRONG stat to enchant (le sigh). However, even with this less than ideal setup, I'm able to do T5 in about ~12min (when I have good latency... and by good i mean ~250ms... damn you China...). I do switch around a few skills and passives when doing T5, the setup I have on now with the passives and skill is for T4. Also, my paper DPS is LOWWWWWW, but it just further reinforces my point that a CDR-FireEQ Barb is pretty balls-to-the-walls (plenty of +dmg modifiers though).
2) Also, I was speaking more in terms of a build prioritizing Cooldown Reduction, and trying to squeeze every drop of that stat, which means having to put the Sun Keeper in the OH, even though assuming perfect rolls for both, yes, the weapon dmg would be higher than the sword and with other builds, that would be the case. But to support my point, lets compare having Born & Sun Keeper in different hands:
**quick note, the stats I consider my 'ideal' are based on the above priority in my previous post, which focuses on CDR, Fire/EQ Dmg, Elite Dmg, then CHC & CHD. Also, for simplicity's sake, just going to use max numbers. I AM IN NO WAY A THEORYCRAFTER(IST?) and most of my calculations are based on other website dmg calculators/spreadsheets that seem to be fairly updated, so I am assuming they know what they're doing. If anyone can verify 100% below, or tell me what I'm doing wrong, gladly appreciated**
MH: Sun Keeper - set stats: 1515-2075 HolyDmg, 750 Str, 30%EliteDmg, 1 Open Stat (must choose either Socket:130%CritDmg or 10% CDR)
OH: Born's - set stats: 4 Open (Ideally 750 Str, 10% CDR, Socket, and 8%EliteDmg)
vs
MH: Born's - set stats: 4 Open (Ideally 1367-1882 HolyDmg, 750 Str, 10% CDR, Socket)
OH: Sun Keeper - set stats: 1515-2075 HolyDmg (enchant to Socket or 10% CDR), 750 Str, 30%EliteDmg, and Socket or 10% CDR (whichever rolls)
So with SK/B in MH/OH respectively, one gains 170.5dmg (max+min/2), 8%EliteDmg, but has to make a choice between CritDmg or CDR. Now, in trying to keep a 1:10 ration of CHC:CHD, the socket is an important choice, so let's assume we choose that, losing out on 10% CDR, since CDR has diminishing returns anyway, and with that extra 10% CDR, you'd only gain actually gain about 5%CDR. As opposed to having 2 sockets (260%CHD) and 20% CDR with B/SK in MH/OH respectively, but losing out on 170.5 dmg, and 8%EliteDmg. I'd say that extra socket more than washes out the 8%EliteDmg. But that 170.5dmg is tasty, right? Especially when you consider its only giving up 5% CDR.... BUUUUUUUTTTT... that 5% CDR is actually quite a bit. Consider this:
Max CDR with SK/B: 57.96% /// Leap Downtime: 2.7 seconds
Max CDR with B/SK: 62.16% /// Leap Downtime: 2.28 seconds
Still doesn't seem like much eh? Well, over a minute, that equates to 4 additional leaps, or 12 Earthquakes. On an average/acceptable rift clear, lets say 10 minutes, 40 additional leaps, 120 earthquakes... I can only assume (and again, I realize this is very very basic napkin math that I'm doing) that those extra leaps far outweigh the incremental 170.5dmg gained per earthquake from having Sun Keeper in the MH. (And yes, I realize that 'incremental' is actually quite a bit for 170.5dmg after all buff modifiers are added in, but I still can't believe that those extra earthquakes isn't worth giving that dmg up). If anyone can do the actual math, I would really love to see if my assumption is correct. Again, most of your skills will be Cooldown based, so that extra CDR% also means more WotB uptime, more CotA uptime, more Ignore Pain uptime, meaning MOAR DAMAGE.
Now I realize that we could give up the extra socket instead, and simply have the Sun Keeper with CDR% in the MH, but again, based on my napkin math, it seems to hurt your dps more than putting it in your OH. The reason is based on my stat priorities and ideal gear setup, a CDR Barb lacks a LOT in Crit Hit Dmg. Essentially, you can only get it on 2 or 3 slots (one of them NOT being the amulet), which means you're looking at about 100-150% CHD. An average Barb should be running with at least 30% crit chance (and this is VERY low), which means we need a LOT of help in hitting that ideal 1:10 CHC:CHD ratio. Without that extra socket, you're missing out on 130% CHD. (Now again, I'm making some very broad assumptions, such as how important it is to hit that 1:10 ratio, and would love to see the actual math for it).
Hopefully this addresses your concerns? Again, we're talking specifically about a CDR FireEQ Barb. The additional gains from being able to have both weapons socketed and 20% CDR would in this case outweigh the simple gain of weapon damage.
**EDIT** Did some more crappy napkin math. Seems that the 170.5dmg would equate to about 10% of your characters dmg assuming max stats(dmg, not dps). Even with that, I'd still hold by my case that more uptime on earthquakes and WotB, not to mention other skills, is better than equipping Sun Keeper in MH (again, for this case).
I previously ran a complete fire build with MotE, but switched to a CDR based build and have found 'great success' with it (before could only do T4 with CDR of about 30%, now doing T5 with avg. rolled gear focused on CDR). Will link to my toon once I get home, but in the meantime:
Mandatory Skills:
EQ - Molten Fury (max EQ dmg)
Leap - Call of Arreat (using Strongarm Bracers, plan on switching to Death from Above once Ancient Parthan Defenders are fixed)
WotB - Insanity (more dmg, and with ~60% CDR, downtime on WotB is about 17 seconds)
CotA - The Council Rises (even with crappy AI, great for taking down bosses/elites. With ~60% CDR, downtime is only about 6 seconds, and survivability seems OK in T5)
2 Free Active Skills depending on situation (see Daxypad's breakdown for which to use depending on your situation)
Passive 1 - Boon of Bul-Kathos (a must with CDR)
Passive 2 - Berserker Rage (25% dmg... you will have a LOT of uptime at max fury)
2 Free Passive Skills - (see Daxypad's breakdown for which to use depending on your situation)
My Current Gear:
MotE - Helm/Shoulder/Hands
Born - Chest/MH
Belt - Harrington
Pants - Yan's
Feet - Lut Socks
Rings - RoRG + SoJ
Bracers - Strongarm
OH - Sun Keeper
Amulet - Golden Gorget/Vaxo
I got some great rolls on the Golden Gorget which is the reason I'm using it, but ideally I should be using Vaxo (have one, but blech rolls). Also, once I get a Tasker, there will be some switching to get the most out of my pets (Vaxo + CotA).
Play-style Explained:
With my current ~60% CDR, I can leap every 4 seconds, downtime on WotB at 17 seconds, and 5 seconds downtime on CotA (if I'm able to get perfect CDR rolls, its 100% uptime for CotA WITHOUT using any IK). Anyway, unless its a VERY dense rift, CD's are usually up when fighting elites. The key to get the most out of Yan's is of course to KEEP MOVING (which you should be doing anyway, collecting health globes for CotA survival + popping chests/objects to get the Harrington buff). Survivability is decent since you're constantly moving (as long as you don't get 'greedy' with your leaps and use the last one to escape from the middle of packs). I'm also eager to try Ancient Parthan Defenders with Death From Above, as that should really help push me to T6 (assuming some additional minor upgrades). But with 2 free passives slots and 2 free skill slots, you can pretty much adjust to your gear. The key point is to choose skills that are based on COOLDOWNS, since you have all that lovely CDR (need to survive more? ignore pain, WotB with dmg reduction, CotA dmg reduction, and all those shouts, not to mention mixing/matching your 2 empty passive slots).
Stat Priority:
Str --> CDR --> % Fire Dmg --> % Elite Dmg (Sun Keeper 1H, possibly Halycon amulet) --> CHC % <--> CHD % --> Res. All <--> LpS <--> Vit
Some additional comments:
- As BFLI mentioned, MotE + Born set is awesome when stacking CDR and not using a spender(I'm currently at ~60% with the Born bonus). I'm currently using MotE Helm/Shoulder/Hands, with Born Sword/Chest and Yan legs. Just based on my own personal experience, this setup has given me the most efficient as opposed to others combos:
MotE + IK (perma-COTA): Main issue is that one loses too many legs with item procs/% Fire Dmg. You end up with only 1 or 2 free slots for a 'good' leg slot (Weapons, Gloves, Belt, Pants). The problem here of course is that the slots that IK slots take up too many additional gear procs/dmg buffs to maximize for T5/T6. I do plan on revisiting this build once I'm able to get some Taskers and after the 2.1 pet AI improvement (MotE - Leg/Shoulder/Head, IK - Belt/Chest/2H + Tasker) but highly doubt if the loss of dual-wielding makes up for the IAS on Tasker for CotA)
MotE + Maximus: Yes, that fire chain is great dmg, but most importantly, I lose out on 20% cooldown reduction.
MotE + Aughild 2pc: See above and below. Lose out on cooldown reduction and additional dmg bonus (15% elite compared to possible 25% from Yan Pants).
MotE + Cindercoat/Magefist/1H Fire Weapon: Again, without a spender (and proper gearing, meaning keeping your max fury as low as possible so it fills up faster) Cindercoat's resource reduction doesn't really assist that much. As for replacing the possible 40% fire bonus you can get with Magefist + 1H Fire Weapon, the Yan pants roll a MINIMUM of 20% (up to 25%) increased dmg (in addition to the resource gen). Additionally, the Born Sword has no set properties, meaning you can get all the important stats on it and put it in your MH (str, socket, weapon dmg, and reduced CD) and assuming you have a Sun Keeper, you put that in your OH and can get Str, Elite Dmg, reduced CD, and a socket by re-rolling the weapon dmg to whatever of those 4 stats you don't get (I know, mace dmg > sword dmg, but unless you get close to a perfect roll on the stats, the difference should be negligable)
** QUESTIONS (some are probably really stupid.... humor me...) **
1) Am I correct in assuming that the EQ ticks update dynamically based on dmg buffs (ie, I drop an EQ, then I pop a chest with Harrington equipped while the original EQ is still going. Will the original EQ's damage get updated with the buff from Harrington, or is it only on a new EQ dropped). Couldn't find the answer to this in Nubtros or other posts, though I'd assume this is the case. Would just like to put it to rest in my brain.
2) Ancient Parthan Defenders ARE bugged right now for Barbs, correct? I think there's supposed to at least be a buff icon once activated?
3) Not a question, but I'm also always looking to improve as well as sharing with the community. If anyone has any comments/questions/criticisms specifically to my build, would be more than happy to answer/explain/listen to improvements.