The passive tree is really overwhelming at first. But once you learn where all the big keystones are, it starts to make more sense. There is definitely a big learning curve there though that is unkind to new players.
It's not that it didn't make sense to me - I just felt no desire to get involved in it. I'm past the point in my life where I'm willing to get the equivalent of an advanced degree just to play a video game.
I really like the skill gem and support gem combinations. It allows a lot of freedom in creating new abilities and changing how your character functions.
I guess I didn't get to the part where you can use them to create new abilities - do you combine them at some point or something? It just seemed like I had to have the gem in the right color slot in order to use the skill, which was a hassle.
There are two types of gems. Active gems and support gems. An active gem would be something like Fireball. A support gem is something like Greater Multiple Projectiles. If you just put fireball in a blue socket, then you shoot one fireball. If you have a green socket linked to a blue socket, then you can support fireball with the greater multiple projectiles gem. Now when you cast fireball, you shoot 5 fireballs that do less damage each, but more damage over all. Complete list is here:http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Skills
This is the best skill system I've used in an RPG.
For example, consider incinerate. Its a fire ability that shoots fire very very fast, and increases in damage the longer you hold it.
You can use this ability as a pure DPS by linking Incinerate + faster projectiles + added chaos damage + multiple projectiles + fire penetration
Or you can use this ability defensively by linking Incinerate + multiple projectiles + knockback + blind + spell totem. Now you can just throw down a spell totem that will cast incincerate and knockback/blind anything that comes near.
Its like D3's rune system, except completely up to the player to combine and alter skills.
Another popular type of gem is a Trigger gem. For example Cast When Damage Taken. I have linked CWDT + Enduring Cry + Immortal Call + Increased Duration. Now when I get for a certain amount of damage, i automatically cast enduring cry + immortal call which makes me temporarily invincible to physical attacks. Increased duration makes that duration longer. With a life leech build, you can fully heal yourself during your invincible phase which makes your character extremely hard to kill.
„We deleted aps as an affix, because we did not want an affix that does the same as another affix, but you had to do math to see which one is better.”
“Along the same line, we don’t want people to have the feeling to be forced to do math to know what affix is good for them. If you like using this skill we want you to use the affix that enhances that skill. We don’t want you to automatically know whether this is an actual upgrade for you, when you lose dps but get that skill dmg for it. You should chose it because you like it. I am sure, that it is possible to have a real answer to whether it is better or not, but we dont want you to waste your time on it.”
This is just atrocious game philosophy for an ARPG imo. Its completely appalling.
“We feel we are in a good place. My Barb is going to feel different than another barb. I will have different items, that other barb cannot find the same items that I have found. Paragon is not meant to customize your character, legendary items are. Paragon is there so that, even when you do not find an upgrade, you will have that feeling of getting more powerful for the time you have spent in the game. ”
Character customization = RNG. This just isn't right. Hes saying his barb is different than other barbs because he has different items..... I mean...really?
but ultimately, every single character functions exactly the same. The only difference in the class you choose at the start of the game is what end of the tree you start at. the game still has cookie cutter setups, and anybody can reach the middle of the tree within their first 10-15 levels. the passive system is actually pretty shallow and for a game that is held up on a pedestal for being endlessly customizable in build/gear setup, the build/gear setup is actually the most restrictive part of the game!
That difference is huge though. Anyone can reach the middle of the tree...but do you *want* to for your build? Is it worth the point investment to start in shadow where most of the crit is if you want to go Ancestral Bond (2 totems, no self cast damage)? Maybe...probably not.
The class you choose is very important to consider for any build. Skill points are very valuable, and if you are wasting 5-10 for no good reason, then you'll be gimped.
The passive tree is all passives that support the active skills you choose. You need to balance offense and defensive point allocations and try to be as efficient as possible.
You won't see any crit marauders out there, while in D3 everyone goes for pretty much the same stats.
I tried PoE for about 2 weeks. But didn't like the leveling in it (was leveling a HC summoner). No respec (big nono for me). Also their races had 0 appeal to me.
Also there was a LOT of micromanaging drops... something I dislike in D3 as well (which at least got a little bit better with Identify all some item changes).
It was fun to play for a bit, just cause it was different. Maybe it's good in it's endgame, but getting there with a summoner (the only thing that appealed to me in PoE) is just to much of a pain in the ass. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless they really like games like D3 and just want to try something different.
They actually just released a summoner patch that made leveling a lot better. Buffed the hell out of zombies in the earlier levels, plus added a bunch of new summoner abilities.
Raging spirits (little flying dudes that aren't targeted, you can have up to 50 of them at a time but they don't last long).
Desecrate (summons corpses that can be used for detonate dead/raise zombie/spectre in a cloud of chaos damage).
Bone Offering (consumes a corpse and buffs your minions resistance and armor)
Flesh Offering (consumes a corpse and buffs your minions movement and attack speed).
Also, there is definitely respec options in PoE. You get 15+ free respec points, plus orbs of regret are pretty cheap.
First of all, I'll warn you that I don't think you'll be getting a very warm reception for a post like this. It just comes across as a thinly veiled "D3 sucks, POE rules" post. Especially if your understanding of D3's mechanics is so shallow that you don't understand why certain stats were tweaked.
But, I think it's interesting to talk about PoE, so I'll answer.
I played PoE for about 4 hours, so I imagine you'll tell me I didn't give it enough of a chance, but I stopped because it's boring. It reminds me a lot of Titan's Quest in terms of how it feels when I'm playing, which wasn't bad but wasn't exciting like D2. Similarly, the combat in D3 is just way more exciting that PoE. D3 Barb's Furious Charge, for example, feels way better than the Shield Charge gem I had.
Speaking of, I was immediately turned off by the fact that certain skills require certain weapons to work. It was frustrating to have to give up using a cool 2-handed club because the Cleave gem requires bladed weapons. I also hated the gem-skill system in general; having to re-gem my gear every time I put on a new item was a pain in the ass.
Having to chug potions again was also lame, although I thought it was cool that the potions could have stats.
And finally the skill tree system they have for passives is just a mess. I wasn't interested in sitting down and reading everything to try and actually plot a course so I just went step by step, not looking very far down the line. I didn't find anything especially cool, just +10% damage, +5% dual wield damage, etc. etc., and was turned off when I was getting to the point where I had these dual wield bonuses that were useless if I found a cool 2-hander.
Definitely a valid point that D3's combat feels a lot better. The graphics work very well in D3, and its definitely the game's strongest point.
I really like the flasks in PoE, there are so many different kinds with different bonuses that they can really change how your character plays. Like Granite flasks, for example, give 3000 armor for a short duration. These are great for squishy characters who don't have armor on their gear. Instead you give up a flask spot and now have a skill/timing based ability to give yourself armor in sketchy situations.
The passive tree is really overwhelming at first. But once you learn where all the big keystones are, it starts to make more sense. There is definitely a big learning curve there though that is unkind to new players.
I really like the skill gem and support gem combinations. It allows a lot of freedom in creating new abilities and changing how your character functions.
I've played both. I stopped playing PoE about 6 months ago, I've got RoS DD on preorder.
PoE is good, I'm not saying it's not. But the level of polish on D3 is just SO much higher. Also, most of the reasons people gives for PoE being better I think fall fairly flat under observation...
The biggest one is Choice... They say "oh in D3 all Barbs are the same, but in PoE I can play my char however I want..." That's true, but mostly because you're not playing a character, you're playing a paper doll. The "character" you choose at the start is basically just a model, it bears no relation to anything in game, all it changes are your starting stats and position on the skill board. D3 however you're playing an Archtype, You're the mighty barbarian who crushes enemies with overwhelming force, or the wise wizard who strikes down the enemies with elemental fury.
Basically D3 is Dungeons and Dragons, you're playing a set character type and using the stats/skills attributed to that class. PoE is a MUD game or something like that, where characters have alot more freedom, but at the cost of identitiy.
Thanks for adding to the discussion, much appreciated.
I agree with everything you said. D3 has defined heroes, while PoE has clean slates that allow you to create your own character. I enjoy creating a character MUCH more than playing a pre-defined hero. I feel the replayability goes through the roof with "paper dolls" because it allows me to be creative.
I played a Barb and a Wizard in D3, but after maxing them out I just didn't want to farm any more. I could see the builds I would be playing if I made a DH or a WD or a monk, and just got too bored. I started playing PoE and never looked back.
Its funny, I have a friend that shares your opinion. He jokes about how I'm "all about builds". He liked a more predefined hero system, yet he didn't like Diablo 3 because my mage was wielding a 2H hammer and doing lots of spell damage haha.
You want to know why we play Diablo? Because we are Diablo Fans.
Ok, but PoE is much closer to the first two diablo games than d3 is.
I can understand that viewpoint. But really I just don't get how someone could say D3 is a better game with a straight face. Path even has races which bring a fantastic competitive edge to the game.
Just wondering if anyone here has tried it, and if so, why are you not playing it? I personally have been playing PoE for over a year now and RoS just looks laughable. There is no way I would buy it. The developers are throwing bandaids on the loot system to try and make their endless farming model more tolerable. They are removing attack speed and more because "its too hard to think about, because math is too hard." I mean...really? I don't understand how you would want to keep playing that.
In two weeks, PoE will release its first 'mini-expansion' called Sacrifice of the Vaal. We will be seeing new content and a new "corrupted" mechanic that hasn't yet been fully revealed
Whats also interesting is all the debate in Diablo forums about BoA and the AH and drop rates. None of that ever gets mentioned in PoE because the entire system is so much better designed. Their orb/crafting system provides the right amount of currency sink that inflation doesn't really get too out of hand. Not to mention, they have 4 month leagues where most people play which is a complete reset of the economy.
They would never have to even consider drops being tailored for your class. Nobody complains about Unique drop rates, because uniques aren't the be-all-end-all items. Sure, some builds require certain uniques, but the prices are easy to find and trading is easy enough.
This is the best skill system I've used in an RPG.
For example, consider incinerate. Its a fire ability that shoots fire very very fast, and increases in damage the longer you hold it.
You can use this ability as a pure DPS by linking Incinerate + faster projectiles + added chaos damage + multiple projectiles + fire penetration
Or you can use this ability defensively by linking Incinerate + multiple projectiles + knockback + blind + spell totem. Now you can just throw down a spell totem that will cast incincerate and knockback/blind anything that comes near.
Its like D3's rune system, except completely up to the player to combine and alter skills.
Another popular type of gem is a Trigger gem. For example Cast When Damage Taken. I have linked CWDT + Enduring Cry + Immortal Call + Increased Duration. Now when I get for a certain amount of damage, i automatically cast enduring cry + immortal call which makes me temporarily invincible to physical attacks. Increased duration makes that duration longer. With a life leech build, you can fully heal yourself during your invincible phase which makes your character extremely hard to kill.
This is just atrocious game philosophy for an ARPG imo. Its completely appalling.
Character customization = RNG. This just isn't right. Hes saying his barb is different than other barbs because he has different items..... I mean...really?
That difference is huge though. Anyone can reach the middle of the tree...but do you *want* to for your build? Is it worth the point investment to start in shadow where most of the crit is if you want to go Ancestral Bond (2 totems, no self cast damage)? Maybe...probably not.
The class you choose is very important to consider for any build. Skill points are very valuable, and if you are wasting 5-10 for no good reason, then you'll be gimped.
The passive tree is all passives that support the active skills you choose. You need to balance offense and defensive point allocations and try to be as efficient as possible.
You won't see any crit marauders out there, while in D3 everyone goes for pretty much the same stats.
They actually just released a summoner patch that made leveling a lot better. Buffed the hell out of zombies in the earlier levels, plus added a bunch of new summoner abilities.
Raging spirits (little flying dudes that aren't targeted, you can have up to 50 of them at a time but they don't last long).
Desecrate (summons corpses that can be used for detonate dead/raise zombie/spectre in a cloud of chaos damage).
Bone Offering (consumes a corpse and buffs your minions resistance and armor)
Flesh Offering (consumes a corpse and buffs your minions movement and attack speed).
Also, there is definitely respec options in PoE. You get 15+ free respec points, plus orbs of regret are pretty cheap.
Definitely a valid point that D3's combat feels a lot better. The graphics work very well in D3, and its definitely the game's strongest point.
I really like the flasks in PoE, there are so many different kinds with different bonuses that they can really change how your character plays. Like Granite flasks, for example, give 3000 armor for a short duration. These are great for squishy characters who don't have armor on their gear. Instead you give up a flask spot and now have a skill/timing based ability to give yourself armor in sketchy situations.
The passive tree is really overwhelming at first. But once you learn where all the big keystones are, it starts to make more sense. There is definitely a big learning curve there though that is unkind to new players.
I really like the skill gem and support gem combinations. It allows a lot of freedom in creating new abilities and changing how your character functions.
I agree with everything you said. D3 has defined heroes, while PoE has clean slates that allow you to create your own character. I enjoy creating a character MUCH more than playing a pre-defined hero. I feel the replayability goes through the roof with "paper dolls" because it allows me to be creative.
I played a Barb and a Wizard in D3, but after maxing them out I just didn't want to farm any more. I could see the builds I would be playing if I made a DH or a WD or a monk, and just got too bored. I started playing PoE and never looked back.
Its funny, I have a friend that shares your opinion. He jokes about how I'm "all about builds". He liked a more predefined hero system, yet he didn't like Diablo 3 because my mage was wielding a 2H hammer and doing lots of spell damage haha.
Ok, but PoE is much closer to the first two diablo games than d3 is.
In two weeks, PoE will release its first 'mini-expansion' called Sacrifice of the Vaal. We will be seeing new content and a new "corrupted" mechanic that hasn't yet been fully revealed
Whats also interesting is all the debate in Diablo forums about BoA and the AH and drop rates. None of that ever gets mentioned in PoE because the entire system is so much better designed. Their orb/crafting system provides the right amount of currency sink that inflation doesn't really get too out of hand. Not to mention, they have 4 month leagues where most people play which is a complete reset of the economy.
They would never have to even consider drops being tailored for your class. Nobody complains about Unique drop rates, because uniques aren't the be-all-end-all items. Sure, some builds require certain uniques, but the prices are easy to find and trading is easy enough.