Two points: one, so long as relative strengths of classes are effectively equivalent, "overpowered" does not really apply. One skill may be discussed as overpowered vs another, but they ought to be skills serving the same function, otherwise it's apples to oranges. Secondly, not all builds will necessarily be designed for maxing out dps. They may be designed for utility, for tanking, for solo survivability, for guaranteed survivability (in the case of HC), or just for plain simple fun (which for some people may not be synonymous with plain simple min/maxed damage.) Keep in mind that unlike WoW, just because you *can* double, triple, or otherwise increase your damage, it doesn't mean you will "need to." In WoW, you get into a boss fight, and you typically have |--------| this long to win or *you lose.* In Diablo, if you do half as much damage as the other guy, you can probably kill anything he can but simply in double the time. Is that probably desirable? Yes. Is it *required?* No.
Certainly some builds will be capable of tremendously higher dps than others... personally, most of my builds will follow one philosophy: a single target dps-maxed attack -> a multitarget/AoE dps-maxed attack -> whatever is necessary for overall resource gain/regen -> utility (dps buffs/enemy incoming damage debuffs -> survivability/mobility.) That will probably equate in most cases to 2-3 pure damage skills, 1-2 resource-management skills, 1-3 self-buff/enemy-debuff skills, and 0-2 survivability skills (some of these categories may overlap.)
The list of how many and layout of skills you plan on using is pretty smart. Going to go redo some ideas for builds I have with this new tid bit in mind.
I am wondering if there are skill groupings of the + damage modifiers. Obviously attack doesn't multiply itself, same for crit damage. So perhaps +all % damage also just adds to itself as well. And then weapon damage.
Thus, Frenzy(120), Battle Rage(100), Bash(80), etc would all simply add together and not continually multiple off each other.
Throw Weapon with Red rune = 462% weapon damage.
Battle Rage with Red rune = 100% more damage.
Max Bash with Blue rune = 80% more damage.
Wrath of the Berzerker with Red run = 75% more damage.
Brawler passive = 30% more damage when around 8 dudes.
No Escape passive = 100% more damage with Throw Weapon.
+120% from Frenzy. Should be 462% weapon damage and 505% + all damage.
Thus with 500 attack and 500% crit damage:
[{(250*462%) * 500} * 505] * 500 = 145818
That is pretty serious on a crit. Or maybe not. Maybe Inferno Diablo has 5 million health.
I was beginning to wonder this myself. It's done in WOW. I think the best way to start out though is to get a tester to level a Barb from 1-13, taking note of:
-Base stat increases
-Base modifier changes (from those stat changes)
A note to keep in mind is to take these changes based on a "naked" Barb, with no gear on (at recording time of course) and no self / group / item buffs.
-We could then plot on a graph each critical piece of information (and potential find how stats influence +%DMG, +%Crit, etc.) taking each one's change at levels 1-13 and see if there's a trend.
-Take those rough levels changes, project it to a level 60, "naked" Barb and work off that instead of guessing.
I got time and Vent server to donate to any you who wants to do this. Having a skill calculator is nice, but a dmg, crit, etc. calculator be soooo much more informative at endgame.
DiabloSin, if every class gets +100% damage mechanics it might be because the game is that hard. You can't really say those things are overpowered by themselves, it is when those skills are practically required because there is no other way to double your damage for instance.
And Mienta, Crimson Overpower and Alabaster Revenge, +47% crit chance. Revenge won't be up all that often, but probably often enough if you keep pressing the attack and let ranged mobs peck at you.
The crit damage has been overstated though. You are going to want a balance to get the highest possible dps.
I'm not saying it's overpowered, or wrong, i'm saying that calling for it to be changed or nerfed on the barb, when other classes get similar such skills, that is wrong. It's ridiculous that people are even calling for changes or saying something is overpowered based on speculation, we only see a small part of the game. So what if it's a good skill that most barbs will want to take? I can think of skills that are literally "must haves" for every class. At least it appears that they are must haves from what is revealed so far.
I agree with you in general, but in comparison the other classes that get similar abilities are on Cooldowns, targeted area effects(still on CD), etc.
And I don't believe anyone has called for a nerf exactly... just pointing out what appears to be what amounts to a near required skill for dps barbs. Albeit, point out a little too emphatically and with hyped up numbers...
Just got done reading this whole thing and still not sure about a few things. I'd be willing to work out a worksheet (Excel sheet) with you guys to try and figure this out. It almost seems that there was, all be it moving, tipping point between the builds in one of the posts. I'd like to try a Barb out, in Beta hopefully, but if not, at launch. So I would like to have a good idea of skill/formulas at that point.
If any of you interested hit me up via forum PM, maybe do the other classes too.
P.S. These posts reminded me a little of EJ forums, with out the snootty rules lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The list of how many and layout of skills you plan on using is pretty smart. Going to go redo some ideas for builds I have with this new tid bit in mind.
I was beginning to wonder this myself. It's done in WOW. I think the best way to start out though is to get a tester to level a Barb from 1-13, taking note of:
-Base stat increases
-Base modifier changes (from those stat changes)
A note to keep in mind is to take these changes based on a "naked" Barb, with no gear on (at recording time of course) and no self / group / item buffs.
-We could then plot on a graph each critical piece of information (and potential find how stats influence +%DMG, +%Crit, etc.) taking each one's change at levels 1-13 and see if there's a trend.
-Take those rough levels changes, project it to a level 60, "naked" Barb and work off that instead of guessing.
I got time and Vent server to donate to any you who wants to do this. Having a skill calculator is nice, but a dmg, crit, etc. calculator be soooo much more informative at endgame.
Just got done reading this whole thing and still not sure about a few things. I'd be willing to work out a worksheet (Excel sheet) with you guys to try and figure this out. It almost seems that there was, all be it moving, tipping point between the builds in one of the posts. I'd like to try a Barb out, in Beta hopefully, but if not, at launch. So I would like to have a good idea of skill/formulas at that point.
If any of you interested hit me up via forum PM, maybe do the other classes too.
P.S. These posts reminded me a little of EJ forums, with out the snootty rules lol