You do realize these two statements contradict each other, right?
No, I was unaware they contradict eachother. Could you please explain to me how that is?
The parameters of my argument did not include a yearly scope; I suggest you actually read the statement I made before making (yet another) completely irrelevant remark.
You say I'm making irrelevant remarks. I've given you five examples of ways people, without any corruption involved, have made lots of fg on jsp. Meanwhile all you have done is complain the site is corrupt, and call me irrelevant, as you for some reason post a definition of precedence...
You're either choosing to ignore them, or you fail to understand the basic tenets of economics as you have yet to provide any form of insightful argument and continue to resort to your own cavil methodology.
I'm a moron, could you make a numbered list of the points you have made thus far please? I only read two.
1. JSP is corrupt.
2. I'm an irrelevant troll.
So you've proposed an argument with no proof whatsoever and try to back it with childish name calling, and wonder why I don't see things your way.
Meanwhile I've given you multiple ways in which people have made fortunes on d2jsp.
Inflation, zero currency control and a lack of sinks are the primary issues; none of which you have even touched on. Why would I remark on something that is irrelevant? You're starting to sound like a troll.
Whoops, look like my other post got modded away for some reason.
Inflation - Remember, your talking about a game that will spawn infinite gold. The longer the game is running, the more gold that will exist, which means, the more inflation.
Sinks - Like I previously mentioned, sinks are totally irrelevant. Even if 99% of the gold people farmed goes towards sinks, its the relative rate of hording that causes inflation. Whether a rich player has 500 gold or 500000000 gold, the number itself is irrelevant. After the games up for 2 years, and people have 2 years worth of gold stashed away, guess what, it bites a big one to be a noob trying to buy items against people with such a head start doesnt it?
I don't think those are irrelevant points, do I still sound like a troll sir?
Are you honestly suggesting all these people donated thousands of dollars to an individual in exchange for psuedo-currency?
We're not talking about years we're talking about months; introducing the precedent for current day activity.
If you're having this much trouble understanding the premise of my argument that you must continually choose to ignore points I bring up and wander off into your own little world then I do not see any reason for you to continue here.
No, I'm not saying every rich person on JSP donated bundles of money. Some of them did, thats a fact. Theres also a lottery game on jsp, some people made some pretty nice hits on that over the years. Some people also just played a lot, got lucky drops, and made some decent fg trades on the forums.
People also have made fg by creating sigs for people to use on jsp and selling them, or from selling in game services, such as rushing or power leveling.
I am not chosing to ignore any points you made. I am chosing to disagree with them. Your claim that rich people on jsp are corrupt is completely baseless, so I have provided for you(see above) ways that people have amassed stockpiles of fg on d2jsp. Perhaps if you had more of an argument other then a false, baseless accusation I would agree with you, so until you can produce a little more don't act like I'm incapable of comprehending a simple argument, why I chose to disagree with it becuase its weak.
Aside from that, I was simply pointing out the the jsp economy that you seem to dislike holds some striking similarities to what the D3 economy seems to be shaping into, leading to the same type of inflate and hording based currency economy d2jsp evolved into over the years.
Again, unless you're going to provide a rational retort (or an event relevant remark) do not bother replying; rambling on about the semantics of a flawed economy instead of addressing the issues; relevant how?
What's the issue you'd like addressed? I gave my view on jsp, and I've been a user there for years. What would you like me to further explain to you? Calling me irrelevant or irrational isn't exactly a good debate point when you haven't made mention of anything in my previous post.
Yes ... a ~60000% difference within a specific subset of users during the first few months of operation can just be attributed to accumlation over time; I'm sure.
In the case of jsp they do give fg for making donations ya know. Not that I'm saying this is cool or anything, but its the way it is...
Also like I previously mentioned there are people on there that are just rich from putting a lot of time and effort into trading for fg over the years.
Is there anything else you'd like me to explain to you? I'd really enjoy helping you see the whole picture rather then have a narrow view of it, and would appreciate if you have anything constructive to add other then false claims of corruption.
Unless you're going to provide a rational retort (or even an at all relevant remark) then don't bother replying.
Says the person who doesn't address a single point I brought up in my post. Do you want me to break it down to a third grade level so you can understand, or perhaps you should take your own advice.
Except that in D3 you have to pay for stuff like repair and whatever (I dont exactly know what).
In theory, lets look at a gold sink like repairing equipment. Let's say for every 100k gold I grind out, on average I take 10k worth of equipment damage. Wouldn't it just be the same if such a sink didn't exist and everything just dropped 10% less gold? In the long run its going to have the same result.
If you will play through D3 (assuming it will be similar to D2), you WILL find something to equal value to a very good item that your own class needs. And even if you don't, you will find lot's of mediocre items that you can trade for gold, which eventually saves up to good gear.
What happens every ladder in D2? Eventually mediocre items become totally worthless. This happens in every game with no kind of perm item loss or resets. High end gear eventually becomes so common theres no market for any low/mid gear. Its like the set items in d2. If you find a couple trang-oul pieces in the first couple days of ladder your quite happy but 6 months in to ladder its a waste of time trying to even trade it.
Now I'm assuming you'll be able to sell everything to shopkeepers still, and this only makes things worse. It might take me 2 years to save a million gold, and I'd be willing to spend large amounts on an awesome item. Meanwhile some newer player just getting in to the game will be wondering why he gets laughed at when he's offering players 1000 gold for something. How is this good?
And yes...it gets even worse from there. At least while bartering you could score some sweet deals if you had anything mildly rare. It was often worthwhile just to overpay a bit, save yourself time searching for trades, and continue to mf/pvp. Good luck getting any sweet deals when theres a giant auction house with 500 of the same item up for sale at all times.
When players were first playing Diablo 1, do you think they would ever imagine the next game to be what Diablo 2 is like?
A fast paced action rpg with a barter system and lots of pk? I think this is about what we all expected. If only d3 could offer this.... Being able to run in D2 though was a pleasant suprise.
It's a frivilous placebo currency adhering to zero economic methodologies facilitated by d2jsp.org; it's currently liquid due to the lack of inflation control, sinks and corruption (it's no coincidence those with authority on the website are rich). You may aswell sell your items for pebbles.
Clearly all the richest on jsp are corrupt. None of them are just people that have happened to be jsp members for a long time and have devoted a lot of time to trading for fg.
I think what you actually have a sour taste in your mouth over is a currency based economy in which nobody ever loses anything, and there is never any sort of reset. The older richer players continue to horde currency while it becomes tougher and tougher for a new player to amass enough currency to buy a top notch item with, as those with the currency only want the best stuff and are willing to pay a lot. Over time it sucks more and more to be a poor noob on this site.
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No, I was unaware they contradict eachother. Could you please explain to me how that is?
You say I'm making irrelevant remarks. I've given you five examples of ways people, without any corruption involved, have made lots of fg on jsp. Meanwhile all you have done is complain the site is corrupt, and call me irrelevant, as you for some reason post a definition of precedence...
I'm a moron, could you make a numbered list of the points you have made thus far please? I only read two.
1. JSP is corrupt.
2. I'm an irrelevant troll.
So you've proposed an argument with no proof whatsoever and try to back it with childish name calling, and wonder why I don't see things your way.
Meanwhile I've given you multiple ways in which people have made fortunes on d2jsp.
Whoops, look like my other post got modded away for some reason.
Inflation - Remember, your talking about a game that will spawn infinite gold. The longer the game is running, the more gold that will exist, which means, the more inflation.
Sinks - Like I previously mentioned, sinks are totally irrelevant. Even if 99% of the gold people farmed goes towards sinks, its the relative rate of hording that causes inflation. Whether a rich player has 500 gold or 500000000 gold, the number itself is irrelevant. After the games up for 2 years, and people have 2 years worth of gold stashed away, guess what, it bites a big one to be a noob trying to buy items against people with such a head start doesnt it?
I don't think those are irrelevant points, do I still sound like a troll sir?
No, I'm not saying every rich person on JSP donated bundles of money. Some of them did, thats a fact. Theres also a lottery game on jsp, some people made some pretty nice hits on that over the years. Some people also just played a lot, got lucky drops, and made some decent fg trades on the forums.
People also have made fg by creating sigs for people to use on jsp and selling them, or from selling in game services, such as rushing or power leveling.
I am not chosing to ignore any points you made. I am chosing to disagree with them. Your claim that rich people on jsp are corrupt is completely baseless, so I have provided for you(see above) ways that people have amassed stockpiles of fg on d2jsp. Perhaps if you had more of an argument other then a false, baseless accusation I would agree with you, so until you can produce a little more don't act like I'm incapable of comprehending a simple argument, why I chose to disagree with it becuase its weak.
Aside from that, I was simply pointing out the the jsp economy that you seem to dislike holds some striking similarities to what the D3 economy seems to be shaping into, leading to the same type of inflate and hording based currency economy d2jsp evolved into over the years.
What's the issue you'd like addressed? I gave my view on jsp, and I've been a user there for years. What would you like me to further explain to you? Calling me irrelevant or irrational isn't exactly a good debate point when you haven't made mention of anything in my previous post.
In the case of jsp they do give fg for making donations ya know. Not that I'm saying this is cool or anything, but its the way it is...
Also like I previously mentioned there are people on there that are just rich from putting a lot of time and effort into trading for fg over the years.
Is there anything else you'd like me to explain to you? I'd really enjoy helping you see the whole picture rather then have a narrow view of it, and would appreciate if you have anything constructive to add other then false claims of corruption.
Says the person who doesn't address a single point I brought up in my post. Do you want me to break it down to a third grade level so you can understand, or perhaps you should take your own advice.
In theory, lets look at a gold sink like repairing equipment. Let's say for every 100k gold I grind out, on average I take 10k worth of equipment damage. Wouldn't it just be the same if such a sink didn't exist and everything just dropped 10% less gold? In the long run its going to have the same result.
What happens every ladder in D2? Eventually mediocre items become totally worthless. This happens in every game with no kind of perm item loss or resets. High end gear eventually becomes so common theres no market for any low/mid gear. Its like the set items in d2. If you find a couple trang-oul pieces in the first couple days of ladder your quite happy but 6 months in to ladder its a waste of time trying to even trade it.
Now I'm assuming you'll be able to sell everything to shopkeepers still, and this only makes things worse. It might take me 2 years to save a million gold, and I'd be willing to spend large amounts on an awesome item. Meanwhile some newer player just getting in to the game will be wondering why he gets laughed at when he's offering players 1000 gold for something. How is this good?
And yes...it gets even worse from there. At least while bartering you could score some sweet deals if you had anything mildly rare. It was often worthwhile just to overpay a bit, save yourself time searching for trades, and continue to mf/pvp. Good luck getting any sweet deals when theres a giant auction house with 500 of the same item up for sale at all times.
A fast paced action rpg with a barter system and lots of pk? I think this is about what we all expected. If only d3 could offer this.... Being able to run in D2 though was a pleasant suprise.
Clearly all the richest on jsp are corrupt. None of them are just people that have happened to be jsp members for a long time and have devoted a lot of time to trading for fg.
I think what you actually have a sour taste in your mouth over is a currency based economy in which nobody ever loses anything, and there is never any sort of reset. The older richer players continue to horde currency while it becomes tougher and tougher for a new player to amass enough currency to buy a top notch item with, as those with the currency only want the best stuff and are willing to pay a lot. Over time it sucks more and more to be a poor noob on this site.