like i said no use arguing or even discussing it.
different values make our views irreconcilable.
maybe the system they implement can bridge our opinions.
Quote from "Seth" »
"Irrevocable" skill point placement does not make the game anymore "fun" for me. If you do not want to use the skill respeccing system, the game will not force you to do so.
on this though.. as ivaron has noted, people keep saying this and it's just silly.
imagine a city in the sky.
people use tightropes to walk from building to building etc. (stay with me.. the tightropes are permanent skill choices)
if i put a road up there, (road = respec) about a foot underneath the tightropes, do you think anyone would continue to use the tightropes or learn to tightrope walk? of course not.
now you're gonna go.. omg roads are so much better than tightropes. but the analogy ended before that, and so it's not the point at all.
...and even if you thought it was applicable, the experience of the city in the sky, with it's fanciful and cautious denizens, is ruined.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
. I said that irrevocable placing of skill points is a flaw because it is not user-friendly, does not fit with the fast-paced play style of Diablo II, and does not empower the user in any way.
i disagree.
the irrevocable placing of a skill makes the skill choice meaningful and it has a permanent impact on your character: it becomes PART Of your character.
after that choice, your character will always have that skill. that means something to me that i guess i can't even explain.
placing a skill, that you know will always be there forever hence, makes it fundamental to your character. there's something safe and satisfying about that, and at the same time i think it is empowering to the user. you have the power and control to decide something for your character that essentially defines him.
this is perhaps a dumb example, but if someone hacked your account (which, by the way, has never happened to me yet) they could delete the character, erasing him from existence, but they could never alter your skill choices for him.
your choices mark your character forever.. they become Who that character IS.
i think i give up trying to rationalize it.
a trap assassin vs a melee assassin, a fire sorc vs a cold sorc... they are different characters completely. making them interchangable, at any level, FEELS wrong.
maybe this feeling is something that the rest of the community does not recognize or appreciate, but it's something that was cultivated in me through years of diablo play.
permanent choices are diablo.
anyway my point is that irrevocable, permanent choices are not a flaw to me; they are deeply important to my diablo experience, both for the gravity of the decision itself and for what it means to the character.
no point in arguing about it. we all have our own opinions and the respec system will come despite any of them.
just hope it's something we can all live with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
hey odon
my main reasons for not liking it were on page 2 or something:
Quote from "blood-doll" »
removing the consequence from the choice devalues it, and something important to the identity of the character is lost.
those two main reasons (CHARACTER IDENTITY and MEANINGFUL CHOICES) are terribly important for me, but they must not matter much to blizzard (or the playerbase majority they cater to).
i say that because in WoW soon there will be only one choice that is permanent, and that's class.
every single other choice can be changed: talents, gender, name, appearance, realm, and soon race and faction.
(i said that on the official forum as well, but i thought it might be worth repeating since it pretty much shows that what i value isn't something deemed valuable -_-)
but anyway just have to see how they implement it.
it's bittersweet but in a way i'm glad that fellow fans (like you) may be getting what they want even if i dislike it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
The game promotes you in absolutely no way to actually make or attempt a build, and if you mess up you are punished and may never get through hell. Its quite ridiculous and such an obvious flaw in the game.
if you mess up you are "punished" and may never get through hell, ok.
but, if you succeed and come up with a novel and successful build, it is all the more fulfilling because of the consequence (potentially wasting your time on a character that is useless for whatever task).
the darker the dark the brighter the bright, you know?
it follows that lessening the darkness dims the light.
all i'm saying is that because of the current risk involved, the reward for experimenting and creating something unique and viable is greater.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
And the fact that many people on this forum seem to be hoping for a system where it's easy and costs nothing to respec, or it costs the wrong thing, also makes me skeptical.
it's a terrible feeling when you realize that your opinions and values are at odds with the majority of your community. because blizzard will, of course, attempt to please the majority.
(sometimes it pains me, but there are a lot of different types of diablo fans and we're all equal.. knowledge of the game, dedication to it, or love for it doesn't increase the value of one of our opinions.)
anyway... i've found a couple ways i won't hate respecs:
1) it's nonladder only AND with a significant cost or limitations
2) respecs have permanent consequences (they reduce the level cap that your character can reach, it costs 20 skills to get 18 back to reassign, etc)
so that basically if you respec, you've reduced your character, and if you don't then you are better for it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
i don't like it.
removing the consequence from the choice devalues it, and something important to the identity of the character is lost.
it's upsetting to me, but guess most like it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
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different values make our views irreconcilable.
maybe the system they implement can bridge our opinions.
on this though.. as ivaron has noted, people keep saying this and it's just silly.
imagine a city in the sky.
people use tightropes to walk from building to building etc. (stay with me.. the tightropes are permanent skill choices)
if i put a road up there, (road = respec) about a foot underneath the tightropes, do you think anyone would continue to use the tightropes or learn to tightrope walk? of course not.
now you're gonna go.. omg roads are so much better than tightropes. but the analogy ended before that, and so it's not the point at all.
...and even if you thought it was applicable, the experience of the city in the sky, with it's fanciful and cautious denizens, is ruined.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
i disagree.
the irrevocable placing of a skill makes the skill choice meaningful and it has a permanent impact on your character: it becomes PART Of your character.
after that choice, your character will always have that skill. that means something to me that i guess i can't even explain.
placing a skill, that you know will always be there forever hence, makes it fundamental to your character. there's something safe and satisfying about that, and at the same time i think it is empowering to the user. you have the power and control to decide something for your character that essentially defines him.
this is perhaps a dumb example, but if someone hacked your account (which, by the way, has never happened to me yet) they could delete the character, erasing him from existence, but they could never alter your skill choices for him.
your choices mark your character forever.. they become Who that character IS.
i think i give up trying to rationalize it.
a trap assassin vs a melee assassin, a fire sorc vs a cold sorc... they are different characters completely. making them interchangable, at any level, FEELS wrong.
maybe this feeling is something that the rest of the community does not recognize or appreciate, but it's something that was cultivated in me through years of diablo play.
permanent choices are diablo.
anyway my point is that irrevocable, permanent choices are not a flaw to me; they are deeply important to my diablo experience, both for the gravity of the decision itself and for what it means to the character.
no point in arguing about it. we all have our own opinions and the respec system will come despite any of them.
just hope it's something we can all live with.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
my main reasons for not liking it were on page 2 or something:
those two main reasons (CHARACTER IDENTITY and MEANINGFUL CHOICES) are terribly important for me, but they must not matter much to blizzard (or the playerbase majority they cater to).
i say that because in WoW soon there will be only one choice that is permanent, and that's class.
every single other choice can be changed: talents, gender, name, appearance, realm, and soon race and faction.
(i said that on the official forum as well, but i thought it might be worth repeating since it pretty much shows that what i value isn't something deemed valuable -_-)
but anyway just have to see how they implement it.
it's bittersweet but in a way i'm glad that fellow fans (like you) may be getting what they want even if i dislike it.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
but, if you succeed and come up with a novel and successful build, it is all the more fulfilling because of the consequence (potentially wasting your time on a character that is useless for whatever task).
the darker the dark the brighter the bright, you know?
it follows that lessening the darkness dims the light.
all i'm saying is that because of the current risk involved, the reward for experimenting and creating something unique and viable is greater.
it's a terrible feeling when you realize that your opinions and values are at odds with the majority of your community. because blizzard will, of course, attempt to please the majority.
(sometimes it pains me, but there are a lot of different types of diablo fans and we're all equal.. knowledge of the game, dedication to it, or love for it doesn't increase the value of one of our opinions.)
anyway... i've found a couple ways i won't hate respecs:
1) it's nonladder only AND with a significant cost or limitations
2) respecs have permanent consequences (they reduce the level cap that your character can reach, it costs 20 skills to get 18 back to reassign, etc)
so that basically if you respec, you've reduced your character, and if you don't then you are better for it.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
removing the consequence from the choice devalues it, and something important to the identity of the character is lost.
it's upsetting to me, but guess most like it.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.