I'm making some 2am Chili right now and I'm waiting for everything to sautee. Damn dems good eats.
Quote from Brx »
So as I see it diablo just happened to play his cards very well but failed in the end (even at its state of power, which makes no senses to me but that is an other topic)
Doesn't it, though?
The Worldstone's influence kept humanity's Nephalem powers in check. With that destroyed, their legacy resurfaced in a scant few (the characters we play in the game). The Three Primes had always been destroyed by groups of talented warrior humans, but Diablo's gambit saw himself reincarnated as THE Prime Evil, embodying all the greater lords of Hell. What he failed to take into account was that Nephalem legacy awakening and pursuing him into Heaven.
Now we have a unified Prime Evil facing off against a group of warriors birthed from both Angels and Demons and embodying the best of each. The battle that took place at the Crystal Arch had to be titanic; I don't see how it survived the conflict at all.
Which brings me to the Worldstone itself. In the end, what did Baal really accomplish? Though he created a permanent portal between Heaven and Hell, he has unleashed the most powerful enemy Hell has ever faced!
Could Diablo have had an opportunity to take this into account? I mean, by the time he's in Heaven, Hell's numbers are decimated; he has no strong allies; and he's fighting Nephalem, which is Baal's fault! He's essentially alone. He's had his ass handed to him numerous times, so was becoming the Prime Evil really the solution to all these things?
I suppose you're right. Unless Diablo had yet another card up his sleeve, why go through all this trouble just to fail? Perhaps his failure is essentially "programmed" into the fabric of reality?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
I've been doing some idle thinking about what I've seen about Diablo 3 and Diablo's goals; and pondering the Diablo cosmology and realworld mythologies. And I was wondering; has Diablo accomplish his aims? Hear me out.
Burning Hells vs High Heavens The Greater Evils' Motivations
Diablo's brothers Ball and Mephisto are hell-bent on destroying Heaven and its denizens; Baal for the sheer ecstasy of destruction, Mephisto because he just wants to see the world(s) burn. Diablo however is a maestro of terror and fear. Unlike Mephisto, he does not derive pleasure from conquest in and of itself, but rather the terror and leads up to it and its after effects.
Diablo has reached the top of the summit, bringing Heaven to its knees and corrupting the Crystal Arch. However, if he had succeeded in achieving Heaven's demise, the conquest would have become complete and there would be nothing left to do. In destroying Heaven he would destroy any motivation to exist; in destroying the Arch he would destroy himself.
But he didn't, and so the Arch survived, as does any future prospect of terror. Fear lives so long as does hope, and vice versa.
The Instinctive Eternal Conflict Thoughts on the cosmology
However, the Diablo we face is the sum total of all evil: The Prime Evil (ostensibly) seeks to tear friends and allies apart (Mephisto, Belial); seeks wonton destruction (Baal); sows fear and discord (Diablo); seeks to debase and demoralize the enemy (Azmodan, Andariel); and inflict pain (Duriel).
If all of this had been accomplished, neither Hell nor Heaven would remain. Which also makes me wonder about the "instinct" imbedded in both Angels and Demons. They came from nothingness (tohu wa-bohu, or ex nihilo), and apparently have the instinct to return to that initial state that birthed the One Anu, which manifests as war (or, in the greater scheme of things, perhaps a form of self-destruction. This theme is called chaoskampf in mythological academia). This pulls upon most every creation myth in the world, but most closely resembles Babylonian myth or Sumerian myth and the Enuma Elish.
Nephalem and Balance Diablo's symbiosis with Humanity
Taking all of this together, Diablo proves again to be unique among is demonic brethren. All of Hell wants to completely destroy Heaven, and with it see all of reality burn; Diablo, however, very well may want to break away from that strategy and simply pursue a never-ending cycle of terror and hope.
This cycle, however, pits him against the Nephalem. These beings achieve the balance necessary to stave off complete and utter destruction of Heaven. Which strikes a strange juxtaposition against the Eternal Conflict. The Conflict manifests Heaven's and Hell's inability to live together, whereas Inarius' and Lilith's rebellion saw the exact opposite, seeing a merge between the two. This merger brought about a world peopled by beings that are one step closer to the whole, a step closer to the all-encompassing Anu.
So we now have two competing theories: An instinct to achieve the nothingness that existed at the beginning of time, as manifest in the Eternal Conflict. And a yearning for unity, demonstrated by the birth of the Nephalem (which in turn birthed humanity). Psychologically speaking, these are comparable to the Thanatos Drive and Eros Drive, respectively.
These appear completely opposite and contradictory. Can both or either be true?
There's one more interesting theory from classical philosophy I might invoke to resolve this, if at least in a limited fashion. The phenomenon of entelechy. This is the continual becoming or striving. When this ends, motivation and meaning cease to exist, and that would be as true if someone achieved something just as much if they grew disinterested with achieving something.
In Summary
I believe Diablo achieved his goals. He spread terror throughout the three worlds. However, had he destroyed Heaven, there would no longer be any room for fear as hope and life would cease. Therefor, to continue being -- to continue to embody fear -- he must "fail', only to arise anew in another form.
Sorry, I feel I haven't properly explained myself here. These are just my thoughts and ramblings. I just really like philosophy and mythology. If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Now go outside.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
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Doesn't it, though?
The Worldstone's influence kept humanity's Nephalem powers in check. With that destroyed, their legacy resurfaced in a scant few (the characters we play in the game). The Three Primes had always been destroyed by groups of talented warrior humans, but Diablo's gambit saw himself reincarnated as THE Prime Evil, embodying all the greater lords of Hell. What he failed to take into account was that Nephalem legacy awakening and pursuing him into Heaven.
Now we have a unified Prime Evil facing off against a group of warriors birthed from both Angels and Demons and embodying the best of each. The battle that took place at the Crystal Arch had to be titanic; I don't see how it survived the conflict at all.
Which brings me to the Worldstone itself. In the end, what did Baal really accomplish? Though he created a permanent portal between Heaven and Hell, he has unleashed the most powerful enemy Hell has ever faced!
Could Diablo have had an opportunity to take this into account? I mean, by the time he's in Heaven, Hell's numbers are decimated; he has no strong allies; and he's fighting Nephalem, which is Baal's fault! He's essentially alone. He's had his ass handed to him numerous times, so was becoming the Prime Evil really the solution to all these things?
I suppose you're right. Unless Diablo had yet another card up his sleeve, why go through all this trouble just to fail? Perhaps his failure is essentially "programmed" into the fabric of reality?
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
Burning Hells vs High Heavens
The Greater Evils' Motivations
Diablo's brothers Ball and Mephisto are hell-bent on destroying Heaven and its denizens; Baal for the sheer ecstasy of destruction, Mephisto because he just wants to see the world(s) burn. Diablo however is a maestro of terror and fear. Unlike Mephisto, he does not derive pleasure from conquest in and of itself, but rather the terror and leads up to it and its after effects.
Diablo has reached the top of the summit, bringing Heaven to its knees and corrupting the Crystal Arch. However, if he had succeeded in achieving Heaven's demise, the conquest would have become complete and there would be nothing left to do. In destroying Heaven he would destroy any motivation to exist; in destroying the Arch he would destroy himself.
But he didn't, and so the Arch survived, as does any future prospect of terror. Fear lives so long as does hope, and vice versa.
The Instinctive Eternal Conflict
Thoughts on the cosmology
However, the Diablo we face is the sum total of all evil: The Prime Evil (ostensibly) seeks to tear friends and allies apart (Mephisto, Belial); seeks wonton destruction (Baal); sows fear and discord (Diablo); seeks to debase and demoralize the enemy (Azmodan, Andariel); and inflict pain (Duriel).
If all of this had been accomplished, neither Hell nor Heaven would remain. Which also makes me wonder about the "instinct" imbedded in both Angels and Demons. They came from nothingness (tohu wa-bohu, or ex nihilo), and apparently have the instinct to return to that initial state that birthed the One Anu, which manifests as war (or, in the greater scheme of things, perhaps a form of self-destruction. This theme is called chaoskampf in mythological academia). This pulls upon most every creation myth in the world, but most closely resembles Babylonian myth or Sumerian myth and the Enuma Elish.
Nephalem and Balance
Diablo's symbiosis with Humanity
Taking all of this together, Diablo proves again to be unique among is demonic brethren. All of Hell wants to completely destroy Heaven, and with it see all of reality burn; Diablo, however, very well may want to break away from that strategy and simply pursue a never-ending cycle of terror and hope.
This cycle, however, pits him against the Nephalem. These beings achieve the balance necessary to stave off complete and utter destruction of Heaven. Which strikes a strange juxtaposition against the Eternal Conflict. The Conflict manifests Heaven's and Hell's inability to live together, whereas Inarius' and Lilith's rebellion saw the exact opposite, seeing a merge between the two. This merger brought about a world peopled by beings that are one step closer to the whole, a step closer to the all-encompassing Anu.
So we now have two competing theories: An instinct to achieve the nothingness that existed at the beginning of time, as manifest in the Eternal Conflict. And a yearning for unity, demonstrated by the birth of the Nephalem (which in turn birthed humanity). Psychologically speaking, these are comparable to the Thanatos Drive and Eros Drive, respectively.
These appear completely opposite and contradictory. Can both or either be true?
There's one more interesting theory from classical philosophy I might invoke to resolve this, if at least in a limited fashion. The phenomenon of entelechy. This is the continual becoming or striving. When this ends, motivation and meaning cease to exist, and that would be as true if someone achieved something just as much if they grew disinterested with achieving something.
In Summary
I believe Diablo achieved his goals. He spread terror throughout the three worlds. However, had he destroyed Heaven, there would no longer be any room for fear as hope and life would cease. Therefor, to continue being -- to continue to embody fear -- he must "fail', only to arise anew in another form.
Sorry, I feel I haven't properly explained myself here. These are just my thoughts and ramblings. I just really like philosophy and mythology. If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Now go outside.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order