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Well imo it would just be annoying to hear them going off constantly. Considering how fast the DH fires it would just be way to many gunshots. And even though it might go along with grenades, thats really the only gadget the DH uses thats at all connected to guns. Most of her skills wouldn't really make sense with a gun (ie Bola Shot, Molten Arrow). Also, the oldest dated gun is from somewhere around 1250, while grenades date back all the way to the 700s. So they're not really as connected as you might think. Its considerably harder to design a firearm that doesn't blow up in your face than it is to fill a ball with explosives.

Quote from maka

I was referring to the bow, not the xbow. The bow had reloading animations in D2. Why couldn't they just make reload animations (albeit sped up ones) for the bow and xbow for D3? I don't get it.

From what I can tell the bow has a draw back animation. I don't think we've seen many videos of the DH with an xbow, but all I was trying to say is that in D2 there weren't reload animations but it didn't interfere with the feel of the class or anything. You still got the sense that you were using a bow/xbow. And that it would pretty much suck to have your fire rate constrained by a reload animation. Basically, reloads in general seem unrealistic in Diablo, so its not that big of a deal that you technicall can't reload dual xbows. If you just don't like how they look thats another story.

Well most crossbows require a cranking mechanism to draw the spring back, or you at least have to place the arrow on top. The animations for reloading were at least faster then they should be in D2. Either way, with any ranged weapon you can cast spells (ie Bola Shot and Molten Arrow) faster than you can possibly reload. Which is unrealistic, but it would kinda suck to have to wait for a reloaded arrow/bolt every time you want to cast something. I'd much rather unrealistic reload sequences compared to that.

Just look at this vid of a Zon using an xbow in D2. She's pretty clearly just pointing and shooting. No reload involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNbvj6Zpq-Y&feature=fvst

Well they've said its her class-specific item, so if there was an explanation it could be something along the lines of "Every DH learns to use these at their base in the Dreadlands" but more elaborate.

Why would "kill a lot of shit" be a bad thing to say? Its a large part of the game. I feel like they explain mechanics very well, once they actually announce them. I don't know what you mean by "frustrating language development from nurture" but I don't think that the other team members seem frustrated with Jay Wilson or frustrated in general, if that is what you're saying.

And I don't know how SC2 mules relates to this, but as a Terran player, and an SC2 player in general, the punishment is pretty obviously that you don't get the resources that you would if you used your Mule right away. I don't see the problem there. If you don't do it at every cooldown, or if you have to use a Scan or Supply Drop instead, you've lost potential resources.

Quote from italofoca

- Heavy Crossbows
- Repeating Crossbows
- Throwing Weapons (Daggers/Kunai/Shuriken/Stuff)
- Chakrans (xena's awesome throwing ring)
- Bows

5 Weapons choices, more then the monk, and still no "pistol crossbow". Actually they could even throw that pistol crossbow as a one handed weapon thata allows you to wear shields for extra def. I jsut don't like to see her dual wielding weapons that are not meant to be dual wielded.

It starts with dual crossbows. In exp we will have a pally dual wielding shields or using 2H shields... And people will like it.

The DH doesn't use throwing weapons, and throwing weapons don't really go with her use of mechanical devices, and even then how is a Chakran not grouped in with the other throwing weapons? So 3 options, and thats if you distinguish between Heavy and Repeating Crossbows, which is really just crossbows with higher/lower rates of fire, or distinguishing between Longbows and Short Bows.

And the Monk can use Staves, Fist Weapons, Swords, and Polearms. So even with the weapons you listed the DH and Monk would still be equal, and if you take out the throwing weapons (which, once again, don't really go with her style), then you're back to below the Monk, and equal with dual crossbows, which, once again, can be explained by her using a small amount of magic. And once again, if you don't like it, don't use it. Even if you don't like it you have to admit it's earned its place based on the support its gotten in this thread and when it was talked about at Blizzcon.

And afaik Cooldowns are only present in PvP. Otherwise, its simply most efficient to not be using Vault (or any movement skill) constantly.

Quote from maka

An archetype? what archetype is that? i'm sorry, i really don't see it. It would've been SOOOO much cooler if she had one xbow in one hand and one dagger in the other. you could keep the fast pace, but it would be much more varied. the vids just seem like too much of "entangling shot, bola bola bola, trap, multiple shot, rinse, repeat".

As in the physical ranged archetype. The bow class. And that repetitiveness is because in the demo you only had three skills, and got a 4th when you got a level.

I like to tinker with gear and equipment and gems and jewels and stuff, talk to the NPCs in town, see what they have for sale, reflect on whether I should go with more enhanced damage or more attack speed on my weapon, etc. I think they're trying too hard to push us into the action all the time.

That will still take place, but its more that once you're out of town, you're out in the wilderness and its hard to get back.

Quote from maka

The problem with these fast paced discussions is that everyone on each side of the argument gets lumped into one. It's nobody's fault, it just happens.
So, i'll say it again: my problem with it is not that the reloading is unrealistic or anything like that. But seriously, can you point out any other weapon system that looks and behaves as ludicrously as these dual crossbows? all the other weapons look smooth, with decent animations, fairly realistic (some realism in weapons is important), while firing the dual xbows just looks like you're playing metal slug. they just feel too arcade!!

I just don't agree. Sorry. I think the animation and look of it is fine. Especially considering how much of the time she's just casting spells like Bola Shot or that fire arrow, which looks the same regardless of the weapon.

And it's blizz's fault that they came up with a class that's (partly) weapon-based, but then made it ranged only! The wiz is ranged only, but he doesn't rely on weapons; the 'zon relied on weapons, but she was ranged AND melee; then they came up with a class with lots of skills that rely on weapons, and they make it ranged only!! of course you're gonna be limited in weapon choices!! Using that as a justification to have dual xbows, just to increase the choice from 2 to 3...I don't buy it.

Its an archetype that is used a lot, and it was missing from D3 before the DH, and imo the DH fills it very well. If you don't like her, don't use her, and if you just don't like dual xbows, then make a DH with a bow or xbow.

But now that I think about it, they keep hammering the idea of "we want to you be killing monsters ALL THE TIME!", so I guess an arcade feel is not entirely unexpected.

I think arcade is the wrong word. Action packed sounds more like it. I really don't see any legitimate complaint against killing more monsters.

Quote from maka

That can be used to justify anything. Why not double javelins, then? double spears? double staves? double wands? double throwing knives/axes/etc? Heck, why not just bend over and fire volleys of arrows from a backpack? The point is, the usage and the behaviour of dual crossbows looks bad and very unrealistic, and, as far as I can remember, no other weapon looks unrealistic. So it's not a matter of saying "shut up, it's a game, deal with it", no. If all the other weapons look and work realistically, why should the dual crossbows and the idiotic DH be any different? she's a crap class, anyway.

Well if you just have a problem with the DH then I guess theres no convincing you, but you're completely disregarding the fact that its not at all like double javs/etc like you listed. Its not like they're just throwing in an option when the DH has plenty of options. They're increasing the weapon options for the DH from 2 to 3. The Barbarian and Monk have a huge amount of options (axes, swords, fist weapons, shields, mauls, maces, flails, most of them with two handed variants as well), the Wizard and WD have a slightly smaller amount, but can still use daggers, swords and shields along with standard magic weapons. The DH, on the other hand, only has the bow and crossbow. She's not like the Amazon where you also had access to a wide range of throwing weapons. Clearly having two options for weapons compared to all the weapons other classes have access to is something of a slap in the face, and even with three its pretty much the same, but better by a bit.

The DH is a master of new technologies and innovation. She was described as dreaming of new ways to kill demons. If there was some combination of mechanics and magic that allows her to dual wield pistol crossbows, which really isn't nearly as hard to believe as you're making it seem, she would pounce on the opportunity. She's shown to use that combination in other skills (namely Spike Trap), so I don't see why she wouldn't use magic to generate small bolts, with some kind of mechanical innovation that re-cocks the crossbow after it fires. Thats really not terribly far fetched compared to other stuff that exists in Sanctuary.

-So, we know she uses "real" bolts from her trailer.

Well not necessarily. Not only does she seem to use a demon tooth as an arrowhead (pointing to shadow magic), but theres also a flash when she fires, which could further hint at some sort of magic. I for one have no problem with the DH having more options for her weapons, even if there are some gaps in the logic behind it, and especially considering these gaps can pretty easily be explained by the same forces that allow her to get a bola to attach to a creature even when one of the heavy ends hits it first, when in reality you would have to hit the creature with the middle of the rope first.

And the way I see it, there will be plenty of bows and crossbows that are just as viable, if not more viable for certain builds. If you need a slower firing, harder hitting weapon for your build, get an xbow, if you need a balance of power and firing speed, get a bow, and if you need a fast firing, low damage weapon, get dual xbows. Again, the gaps in logic behind dual xbows are compensated for (in my opinion) by the fact that it adds that extra option for the DH.

Or it could be purely magical/demonic ammunition, that refills itself. She's supposed to dabble in dark magic, and if DH's came across something that made it so that reloading was not necessary, I'm sure they'd use it. After all, there arent bolts/arrows in D3.

It's her class-specific weapon. Its supposed to rape face. Also, its not that weird to believe that some of the DH's magic skills would go towards making magical ammo that don't require you to manually reload. That would be a pretty damn nice way to use your magical talents.