I gave up 3K sheet DPS, but it looks like the multiplier for a single target is 9.2x, so my eDPS is well over 2 million.
I'm running 55% crit chance and it looks like everything is perma-frozen, but to me it also seems like elites can cast things during a very split second window. It's quite annoying, especially those with Frozen affix.
Okay, because I'm currently at 3.33 APS if I use my trifecta BT Cross and Inna's Temp. So if I get a 9 IAS BT, I'll hit the next breakpoint... interesting.
What I used to use when running CM/WW was the following sort of items, which put me around 200K unbuffed DPS and 550-600K unbuffed EHP:
- 8 ias / 6 cc Mempo
- 9 ias, high armor Tal chest
- 9 ias / 6 cc Lacuni
- 8 ias / 6 cc rare ring
- 6 cc Zuni Pox
- 9 ias, 9 cc rare gloves
- 9 ias / 10 cc Blackthorne's ammy
- 9 ias Witching Hour
- 9 ias / 10 cc Chant's Force
- 1.79 APS Chant's Will
- High-end Vile Ward, high armor Blackthorne's pants, Zuni Trail to finish (yes, without a high-end Ice Climbers, you might as well keep Zuni for the DPS, otherwise go for Climbers for the EHP).
That put me at unbuffed 3.04 APS (overkill), 58% CC. So if you're looking to maximize IAS and CC (without going for the EHP-crippling Inna's Temp), check out the gear listed above. Considering 200K+ unbuffed DPS and high EHP with that gear will involve some above average to BiS items (Andariel's instead of Mempo, if you want to ditch some EHP, or just get a high int Mempo without crit), you can certainly get by with less DPS (just forego crit damage, for instance). With so much IAS and CC, you're bound to lock almost anything in your path.
My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM. I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.
That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.
In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.
Are you referring to me on the upgrades?cause if you are that would be excellent good to know that i need certain items,but according to bagstone's guide and this guide i am a bit frustrated which exactly are the Bis for Cm
He was referring to RasAlgethi's stats. As for BiS items for CM, I think Bagstone summed it all up pretty well in the gear choices section of his guide. You want X amount of attack speed to hit the required breakpoints that Loroese has summed up in this guide. You also want to stack as high CC as you can to proc CM as much as possible then stack EHP so you can stay in fights without even thinking about kiting.
There are only so many items that can give you attack speed in non-standard IAS slots like your chest and helm. Those are the ones you want to pick up in order to reach breakpoints.
Hello everyone and thank you for this excellent guide.I must have read it like 100 times,since i switched from the boring archon(at least for me) spec to cm,also watched tons of videos...im quite frustrated on how much life on hiti need to be able to survive mp10 decently and how it does scale with the rest of the stats.Also i spent enough gold trying to gear and it seems like my only choice is to keep my rings or get a unity thats extremely expensive to raise my dps.I would appreciate any feedback and help in what to change or replace.
thank you in advance
You don't fully benefit from Zuni Trail and Tal Rasha'a Allegiance if you're running Chantodo's Will.
- Replace Tal Rasha's Allegiance with Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross with max IAS and CC, and either high int or CD.
- Replace Zuni Trail with either high-tier Ice Climbers or int Nat's Footprints along with Nat's Reflection (swap out rare ring) with high CC and IAS.
- If you replace the boots, swap out Zuni Pox with a high IAS and CC rare ring. If you don't swap out Zuni Trail, replace your current Pox with one with high IAS and CC.
Your goal shouldn't be DPS first. Your current APS is 2.67 with 43% CC. You really need to pump those up to run an efficient CM/WW. Second to that is higher EHP. At melee range, your 345K EHP could be better (better safe than sorry, anyway). You have enough HP, but you need more mitigation.
Try Deep Freeze or Bone Chill for your Frost Nova (the former for solo runs and latter for ubers). Once you get your EHP and CC up a little more, you can run SNS for more EDPS.
is it intended that zunimassas boots %elemental dmg only works with black weapons?
All % elemental bonuses work for black weapons, as the min/max black damage affixes are "unmodified," unlike min/max holy, arcane, lightning, cold, poison, fire damage (Chantodo's Will).
what do you think about zunimassas chest as the non ias item? so you can get the 2 piece bonus with boots.
The chest is awesome for EHP. But I suggest you ditch Zuni boots like Bagstone said. You can go the Nat's two-piece (Footprints and IAS/CC Reflection) for the bonus CC or you can run Ice Climbers for the massive EHP and take a rare ring for IAS/CC. Your Zuni bonus can come from an IAS Zuni Pox. Then you can grab bonus IAS on gloves, Lacuni's, Mempo/Andy's, Chant's set, max IAS amulet (Blackthorne's would be awesome here to go with Jousting Mail). It should come out to at least the 2.73 break point with those items.
I just picked up a few pieces and now run 3.01 APS. Given my past experience with RD, I kept Crystal Shell instead of Shards, Prismatic instead of Storm.
I'll contribute something later on after I take a break. Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).
Just an update for the scenario I detailed before about dying too much as CM-WW on MP10.
I swapped Diamond Shards for Crystal Shell, removed Glass Cannon in favor of Blur, kept Prismatic Armor, swapped out Stretch Time for Blood Magic and now I barely get tickled by anything. Guess the culprit from before was Glass Cannon along with too many DPS-boosting abilities.
My resists and armor stood around 600 and 3500 unbuffed, respectively, so I figured that's reasonable to tackle most things considering my DPS and the life steal.
Hm, are you talking about mobs in general or reflect damage (including Siegebreaker)? I think 600/3500 is quite low; according to Loroese's table it's about MP5/MP6 level. More DPS and some LS might at some point compensate for that for non-RD mobs, but I can't seem how you'd survive against RD mobs. Since the mobs always reflect 10% and your LS can't go beyond 0.9% you'd need over 90% mitigation (plus a 3% LS weapon and Blood Magic) to survive LS without additional LoH etc...
I only have trouble with Reflect as CM/WW (ironically, not when I'm using Archon). When I'm using my hybrid Archon build, I'm running about 500K DPS with the 4.1% life steal (2.6 from EF and 1.5 from Blood Magic) and I can sit on multiple Desolates while blasting 3-4 Reflect simultaneously on MP10 while gaining more HP than losing. I guess that goes to show what a difference the EHP makes with Archon than standing around human form with CM/WW. I can also try dumping Stretch Time for Blood Magic and swap Shards for Crystal Shell and see if those help at all.
Looks like I'll be sticking with hybrid Archon for future high MP uber runs. I'll let someone else take care of the disabling. That's unless I swap in more gear parts, like a high EHP Blackthorne's pants and perhaps switch to IAS+CC Blackthorne's ammy.
@Jaetch
Your 400k dps does about 1360k dps of LS damage, so 272k of damage works directly with LS or about 7000 life per second from your LS. Your LoH multiplier is about 5.8 so the LS is equivalent to about 1200 LoH, meaning you need another 1000 or so LoH to make farming more managable. Alternatively, switching to crystal shell instead of diamond shards will probably go a long way, at least until you find electrical + RD. I'd actually think you should be fine against RD mobs, but maybe you need some more physical resists and armor. What are your armor and resists?
If the Time Stretch bumps you over 2.5 APS your dps multiplier is 4x and your LoH gain is more like 8x, so your life steal is about 8000 life per second which is equivalent to about 1000 LoH. This goes with the idea said above that higher APS means LoH becomes better.
I'll admit I'm not all too familiar with the logistics behind CM/WW, and last night was actually the first time I touched WW in a very long time.
My resists and armor stood around 600 and 3500 unbuffed, respectively, so I figured that's reasonable to tackle most things considering my DPS and the life steal. After I got knocked around by Reflect, I realized I was not healing nearly as fast with the massive number of WWs I was laying on entire packs (the rate at which my HP pool disappeared was so alarming it was actually hilarious).
I'm going to test this out solo tonight if I can find the time. Last night I basically spontaneously bought a 6 cc, 10 apoc Storm Crow and 10 apoc Triumvirate on the spot and jumped into an uber run. Tonight I'll try and pick up a decent DPS black wand with high LoH and see where that goes in comparison to my 2.6% LS EF.
If all else fails, I'm just going back to my original hybrid Archon build for ubers.
I run a 2.6% life steal EF with about 400K DPS with a CM/WW spec. Last night on MP7, I got absolutely destroyed by Reflect, Molten, and Arcane packs. I did run Shards instead of Crystal Shell, though. Not sure as of now if that would've saved me. I'm planning on picking up a black wand with APoC and 800+ LoH whenever I decide to swap to CM/WW for uber runs.
LoH: 800 per 100k dps (1200 for 150k DPS, etc)
2,400 LoH?
May I ask what your APS was in that test run?
Also, the max LoH is 2876 (3688 with legendaries). You can do it! :Thumbs Up:
very informative post. just one thing i noticed, how well/bad does lifeleech work compared to loh with higher dps?
ive been unable to find anything specific on cmww builds as they are abit "special" to say the least compared to other specs.
im currently running 47% crit, 217 crit dmg, 1.95 aps, 19 apoc with 111k dps (iceman#2422 if you want to check my stats).
as i was able to grab a cheap "good" chanto wand with 2.3% life leech (currently running archon spec for solo, but its the same gear).
Disclaimer: this is my theoretical thinking about this, I haven't tested this at all. Maybe Loroese has tried this and can support the following or correct me if I'm wrong - he has probably done every imaginable kind of testing with regard to CMWW ;-)
You can probably calculate or estimate this yourself, when you try out how much damage one average WW tick deals for you. The proc coefficient for WW is 0.125. Let's say you have 800 LoH, which means that you gain on average 100 life per WW tick. If you have 2.3% life leach (i.e., 0.46% on Inferno), 21739 damage per WW tick are the break-even point for you.
Hm. That sounds odd, because it seems to be quite low, considering that you'd have to average above all hits AND crits. Loroese? Or someone else? In any case, the more APS you have the better is LoH, because you proc more often while dealing the same damage (but reducing the WW tick damage, which makes LS less efficient).
Anyways, the point is that you lose a lot of potential on a chanto with LS. The better options are IAS (that's what I prefer, for better stunlock) or socket (what you should choose if you want DPS). You can get 1000+ LoH easily on Blackthorne's pants and amulet, and 1000+ LoH is more than enough for anything.
I run a 2.6% life steal EF with about 400K DPS with a CM/WW spec. Last night on MP7, I got absolutely destroyed by Reflect, Molten, and Arcane packs. I did run Shards instead of Crystal Shell, though. Not sure as of now if that would've saved me. I'm planning on picking up a black wand with APoC and 800+ LoH whenever I decide to swap to CM/WW for uber runs.
Details: 55% cc, 2.3+ attacks per sec (30 WW ticks), ran Prismatic so about 500K+ EHP, also ran Bone Chill, Cold Blooded and Stretch Time so that probably sped up the IAS for more ticks and also more damage to myself against Reflect. I think I may have overbuffed myself, now that I think about it. But FYI, ubers were downed in about 1 minute or less each.
LoH: 800 per 100k dps (1200 for 150k DPS, etc)
2,400 LoH? the LS equivalent is about 2,000 LoH and I still got completely wrecked lol.
I'm running 55% crit chance and it looks like everything is perma-frozen, but to me it also seems like elites can cast things during a very split second window. It's quite annoying, especially those with Frozen affix.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
- 8 ias / 6 cc Mempo
- 9 ias, high armor Tal chest
- 9 ias / 6 cc Lacuni
- 8 ias / 6 cc rare ring
- 6 cc Zuni Pox
- 9 ias, 9 cc rare gloves
- 9 ias / 10 cc Blackthorne's ammy
- 9 ias Witching Hour
- 9 ias / 10 cc Chant's Force
- 1.79 APS Chant's Will
- High-end Vile Ward, high armor Blackthorne's pants, Zuni Trail to finish (yes, without a high-end Ice Climbers, you might as well keep Zuni for the DPS, otherwise go for Climbers for the EHP).
That put me at unbuffed 3.04 APS (overkill), 58% CC. So if you're looking to maximize IAS and CC (without going for the EHP-crippling Inna's Temp), check out the gear listed above. Considering 200K+ unbuffed DPS and high EHP with that gear will involve some above average to BiS items (Andariel's instead of Mempo, if you want to ditch some EHP, or just get a high int Mempo without crit), you can certainly get by with less DPS (just forego crit damage, for instance). With so much IAS and CC, you're bound to lock almost anything in your path.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
He was referring to RasAlgethi's stats. As for BiS items for CM, I think Bagstone summed it all up pretty well in the gear choices section of his guide. You want X amount of attack speed to hit the required breakpoints that Loroese has summed up in this guide. You also want to stack as high CC as you can to proc CM as much as possible then stack EHP so you can stay in fights without even thinking about kiting.
There are only so many items that can give you attack speed in non-standard IAS slots like your chest and helm. Those are the ones you want to pick up in order to reach breakpoints.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
You don't fully benefit from Zuni Trail and Tal Rasha'a Allegiance if you're running Chantodo's Will.
- Replace Tal Rasha's Allegiance with Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross with max IAS and CC, and either high int or CD.
- Replace Zuni Trail with either high-tier Ice Climbers or int Nat's Footprints along with Nat's Reflection (swap out rare ring) with high CC and IAS.
- If you replace the boots, swap out Zuni Pox with a high IAS and CC rare ring. If you don't swap out Zuni Trail, replace your current Pox with one with high IAS and CC.
Your goal shouldn't be DPS first. Your current APS is 2.67 with 43% CC. You really need to pump those up to run an efficient CM/WW. Second to that is higher EHP. At melee range, your 345K EHP could be better (better safe than sorry, anyway). You have enough HP, but you need more mitigation.
Try Deep Freeze or Bone Chill for your Frost Nova (the former for solo runs and latter for ubers). Once you get your EHP and CC up a little more, you can run SNS for more EDPS.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
All % elemental bonuses work for black weapons, as the min/max black damage affixes are "unmodified," unlike min/max holy, arcane, lightning, cold, poison, fire damage (Chantodo's Will).
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
The chest is awesome for EHP. But I suggest you ditch Zuni boots like Bagstone said. You can go the Nat's two-piece (Footprints and IAS/CC Reflection) for the bonus CC or you can run Ice Climbers for the massive EHP and take a rare ring for IAS/CC. Your Zuni bonus can come from an IAS Zuni Pox. Then you can grab bonus IAS on gloves, Lacuni's, Mempo/Andy's, Chant's set, max IAS amulet (Blackthorne's would be awesome here to go with Jousting Mail). It should come out to at least the 2.73 break point with those items.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I'll contribute something later on after I take a break. Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I swapped Diamond Shards for Crystal Shell, removed Glass Cannon in favor of Blur, kept Prismatic Armor, swapped out Stretch Time for Blood Magic and now I barely get tickled by anything. Guess the culprit from before was Glass Cannon along with too many DPS-boosting abilities.
God mode has officially activated.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I only have trouble with Reflect as CM/WW (ironically, not when I'm using Archon). When I'm using my hybrid Archon build, I'm running about 500K DPS with the 4.1% life steal (2.6 from EF and 1.5 from Blood Magic) and I can sit on multiple Desolates while blasting 3-4 Reflect simultaneously on MP10 while gaining more HP than losing. I guess that goes to show what a difference the EHP makes with Archon than standing around human form with CM/WW. I can also try dumping Stretch Time for Blood Magic and swap Shards for Crystal Shell and see if those help at all.
Looks like I'll be sticking with hybrid Archon for future high MP uber runs. I'll let someone else take care of the disabling. That's unless I swap in more gear parts, like a high EHP Blackthorne's pants and perhaps switch to IAS+CC Blackthorne's ammy.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I'll admit I'm not all too familiar with the logistics behind CM/WW, and last night was actually the first time I touched WW in a very long time.
My resists and armor stood around 600 and 3500 unbuffed, respectively, so I figured that's reasonable to tackle most things considering my DPS and the life steal. After I got knocked around by Reflect, I realized I was not healing nearly as fast with the massive number of WWs I was laying on entire packs (the rate at which my HP pool disappeared was so alarming it was actually hilarious).
I'm going to test this out solo tonight if I can find the time. Last night I basically spontaneously bought a 6 cc, 10 apoc Storm Crow and 10 apoc Triumvirate on the spot and jumped into an uber run. Tonight I'll try and pick up a decent DPS black wand with high LoH and see where that goes in comparison to my 2.6% LS EF.
If all else fails, I'm just going back to my original hybrid Archon build for ubers.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I just edited my post.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I run a 2.6% life steal EF with about 400K DPS with a CM/WW spec. Last night on MP7, I got absolutely destroyed by Reflect, Molten, and Arcane packs. I did run Shards instead of Crystal Shell, though. Not sure as of now if that would've saved me. I'm planning on picking up a black wand with APoC and 800+ LoH whenever I decide to swap to CM/WW for uber runs.
Details: 55% cc, 2.3+ attacks per sec (30 WW ticks), ran Prismatic so about 500K+ EHP, also ran Bone Chill, Cold Blooded and Stretch Time so that probably sped up the IAS for more ticks and also more damage to myself against Reflect. I think I may have overbuffed myself, now that I think about it. But FYI, ubers were downed in about 1 minute or less each.
2,400 LoH? the LS equivalent is about 2,000 LoH and I still got completely wrecked lol.
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