Thanks a lot Loroese! That is now beginning to make sense, could you possibly just extend that table to 60% CC (which is rather obtainable) and to say 3.8ish APS (which is obtainable once again with say chantodo's set), surely i know it is going to cost a bomb to get to those levels, but just as a matter of curiosity as to whether it is at all possible to get to only 10 APoC pulling the weight of the build
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I'm not asking about viability, i'm asking sustainability, that's 2 completely different concepts. If we have 0 APoC on gear and run out of AP within 15 seconds that's clearly not sustainable. If we have enough, whatever the amount is of APoC on gear and we can continue casting without running out of AP while hitting stuff, obviously, to generate back AP - then that is sustainable. Certainly RNG will play a factor no matter, and certainly there will be times when you get no crits for a few seconds (although i don't see how is that possible with say 5-6 ww tornadoes ticking 6 times a second with an even 40% CC), certainly mobs will sometimes move out of the WW and you get no APoC procs.
I don't know am i not explaining the concept clearly? Let me rephrase it this way:
1) Would YOU run CM build with WW with 10 APoC? Yes or no.
2) What is the correlation between the APS and CC versus minimum APoC required on gear to make the build sustainable in a sense of not running out of AP in 10 seconds?
3) Based on your conclusions the WW testing thread - at APS 3.0 WW is going to tick 32 times over 6 seconds, i do not see the point of having 30 APoC in that setup because that would be very very very extremely heavy extra.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Sustainable in terms of AP = i can go on forever without running out of AP
Do i run out of AP if
CC = 40% APS = 2.0 APoC = 15 ?
CC = 45% APS = 2.0 APoC = 10 ?
CC = 50% APS = 3.0 APoC = 8 ?
etc
Is there a way to run CM build using WW and EB as AP spenders while having only 1 APoC source? What is the minimum required CC and APS for that?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I'm thinking about sustainability in terms of AP based on APS and CC. Common WW build with EB and WW as the 2 AP spenders, what's the required APoC to sustain that build? Using WW, based on your work - the higher the APS the higher the uptime on DS and nova going to be, so the only question is what is the required gear setup in terms of the 3 possible variables: APoC, APS and CC.
I don't think it would be applicable to the meteor build as the APS plays no role in that, which would make WW build more viable at higher gear levels. Quite honestly, other than a slightly different playstyle of the meteor build - i don't really see any other gearing up synergies in there: APoC is only available on 3 sources:
helm - tal's helm or mempo are going to beat any APoC helm flat out in terms of DPS any day
weapon - chantodo's have APoC but they cost 600+ mil for 1.2k DPS, while echoing fury with the same socket in 1.2k range will cost about 100m tops, rare wands with APoC cost a bomb as well and suck in DPS values as most of them lack INT, those that do have stupid costs again
offhand - is the more reliable APoC source, any OH can roll APoC
Hence the entire gearing question arising from this - if we go for a high APS and high CC would a single APoC source be sufficient to run the WW based CM build? Or do we have to inevitably invest into at least 2 sources? Like for example i'm sitting on over 300m gold right now, and i would like to have the ability to run not only archon, but also CM, especially for the ubers, so do i have a chance to run CM with just OH APoC or do i invest into MH with APoC or do i drop a chunk of DPS and get an APoC helm?
According to your research - with, say, 3 APS WW is going to have 2*6*3=36 ticks wouldn't that be fine to run with just 10 APoC or even less? What about 2.5 APS?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Could you please do a favor to the all of us and create a table for WW based CM wizards with:
- attack speed along one axis
- CC along another axis
- each cell = minimum required APoC to sustain the build
This is a question i know i want an answer to, i'm pretty sure a lot of other wizards would like to know this as well - after all gearing up with all 3 sources of APoC is very limiting to the DPS and very draining financially, it would be far better to have an accurate goal to aim for in terms of APoC on gear. For example, if we are reaching 3.0 APS, would a single source of APoC suffice? Or do we still have to have 3?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I don't know am i not explaining the concept clearly? Let me rephrase it this way:
1) Would YOU run CM build with WW with 10 APoC? Yes or no.
2) What is the correlation between the APS and CC versus minimum APoC required on gear to make the build sustainable in a sense of not running out of AP in 10 seconds?
3) Based on your conclusions the WW testing thread - at APS 3.0 WW is going to tick 32 times over 6 seconds, i do not see the point of having 30 APoC in that setup because that would be very very very extremely heavy extra.
Do i run out of AP if
CC = 40% APS = 2.0 APoC = 15 ?
CC = 45% APS = 2.0 APoC = 10 ?
CC = 50% APS = 3.0 APoC = 8 ?
etc
Is there a way to run CM build using WW and EB as AP spenders while having only 1 APoC source? What is the minimum required CC and APS for that?
I don't think it would be applicable to the meteor build as the APS plays no role in that, which would make WW build more viable at higher gear levels. Quite honestly, other than a slightly different playstyle of the meteor build - i don't really see any other gearing up synergies in there: APoC is only available on 3 sources:
helm - tal's helm or mempo are going to beat any APoC helm flat out in terms of DPS any day
weapon - chantodo's have APoC but they cost 600+ mil for 1.2k DPS, while echoing fury with the same socket in 1.2k range will cost about 100m tops, rare wands with APoC cost a bomb as well and suck in DPS values as most of them lack INT, those that do have stupid costs again
offhand - is the more reliable APoC source, any OH can roll APoC
Hence the entire gearing question arising from this - if we go for a high APS and high CC would a single APoC source be sufficient to run the WW based CM build? Or do we have to inevitably invest into at least 2 sources? Like for example i'm sitting on over 300m gold right now, and i would like to have the ability to run not only archon, but also CM, especially for the ubers, so do i have a chance to run CM with just OH APoC or do i invest into MH with APoC or do i drop a chunk of DPS and get an APoC helm?
According to your research - with, say, 3 APS WW is going to have 2*6*3=36 ticks wouldn't that be fine to run with just 10 APoC or even less? What about 2.5 APS?
Could you please do a favor to the all of us and create a table for WW based CM wizards with:
- attack speed along one axis
- CC along another axis
- each cell = minimum required APoC to sustain the build
This is a question i know i want an answer to, i'm pretty sure a lot of other wizards would like to know this as well - after all gearing up with all 3 sources of APoC is very limiting to the DPS and very draining financially, it would be far better to have an accurate goal to aim for in terms of APoC on gear. For example, if we are reaching 3.0 APS, would a single source of APoC suffice? Or do we still have to have 3?