The idea that you'll be running around kiting doing little damage is absurd. The WD is the BEST kiting class in the game. You can make around 50% of your skills (just guessing it could be a bit higher) slow as well as do damage. And they are DoT's which means that while you are running away they are skill taking damage. You just have to be smart to play. The WD is the least favored of the classes so far, but will be the strongest class at end game if you take a master of the class verses a master of any other class it will always be the WD on top, especially when the fights are a bit longer like they will be in Inferno, at least starting out.
As to the whole zombie wall thing, I could have sworn there was already a video up of the skill and nothing walked through it at all, but I could be mistaken. Personally I see the merit of both sides, and since it all seems to be hinging on blizzards defintion of width in this case, it seems like we'll have to wait and see. Either way, it's still a great skill, and would be great for control.
Zombie wall has a long cooldown now, 25 secs
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Please do not reply without reading my full post and no flaming/trolling as well as fully explain your build / link.
So I've used the skill calc literally hundreds of times, making hundreds of builds for every single class, and from what i can tell the ONLY real viable end-game builds for the WD soloing 100% require pets, especially if you haven't super massed defense gear. honestly just because blizzard talks about all viable builds doesn't mean EVERY build possible for every class is viable in end game without 1-2 spells that are a must. although this "bla bla skill is a must for inferno" i have only found to be true for the WD. sure norm - hell(doubtful) you might be able to get away with no pets, but inferno? good luck, you'll be one shotted instantly and constantly fleeing rotating CC's while not doing much dmg, so yes the WD survivability in later difficulties is almost entirely based upon having AT LEAST 1 summon to help him kite around. IMO (unless you can somehow prove otherwise)
I agree for inferno you will likely need pets, especially when you first begin that mode. But whats the problem with that?
4-5 people on a random D3 forum disagreeing with me is hardly "everyone". considering during this argument i got RL opinions from about 14 other people. posted it on FB and 7 other people on there. and every single one agreed with me and said it was common sense. and none of them were 16 which is probably most of the people disagreeing. regardless of how old they say they are. so i know I'm right. i really dont care what random troll kids on a D3 forum say, lmao.
Pretty sure he meant everybody who entered the thread. Not everyone on the site.
Anyway, I asked like 20 of my friends and they all said "lol he's a newb what a newb" and then I called my incredibly gorgeous girlfriend and she said I was totally right and the fact that I owned some newb in an argument on a video game forum really turned her on. It was awesome.
See? I can make shit up too!
haha, you win.
+100 Internet points!!!
oh nos! some kid on a D3 forum thinks im lying! wtf em i gon do? and he doesnt like me. oh noz i fails.
GJ, wish i cared more what you thought. honestly i do
If you did not care, you would stop posting.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
you want us to prove us wrong yet you offer no substantial evidence to support your argument. THE GAME IS NOT OUT. Beta isn't even remotely close to providing a measure for how difficult inferno mode will be. You are making assumptions with so little to go on that it is laughable.
Wait for the game to be out and to actually play the class before you start claiming certain builds aren't viable.
I know you must be bored waiting but you need to stop being stupid.
troll much? the entire website is speculation there genius. its something to consider and talk about. considering it seems very likely considering the knowledge we do have. you could repost that exact thing on every thread on here, your so smart and the voice of reason for adding no additional information to this subject! /clap
Haha, now people who disagree with your ridiculous unfounded claims are trolls.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
Seems this whole arguement boils down to perception and the use of Width vs Depth.
What I perceive is that the rune doubles the width from 3 --- to 6 ---|---
IF it said double the depth then I would imagine a line of 3 --- doubled to 6 ===
However, this is my opinion based upon my interpretation of the words and my perception of how the skill will be cast in relation to the caster.
Perception and the interchangable nature of the English language means this may well be an 'unwinable' arguement
That is the logical way to look at it, at least from my opinion. However, I am not going to discount either, as they are both possible.
On the other hand, D3maniac's opinion is extremely biased, and thus he claims it HAS to be "===".
He is making a baseless assumption, and then claiming it as evidence to support his views.
All of which is actually completely irrelevant, as Wall of Zombies + Slow is still a great defensive ability.
However, to consider things like that would be counter productive to his argument, so he ignores it.
If you look at the video which is posted earlier in the thread.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M)
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
I'm quite sure I'll be playing a non-pet build for inferno. My barbarian will make it through hardcore with its reckless type of build and so will a damn non-pet Witch Doctor.
I feel a bit sad reading D3Manic2012 posts. The insults. There is no reason for this type of behavior while just discussing builds. Cheer up and enjoy the discussion.
The video is pretty poor, but it does look like one guy makes it through. Though, it could be some of the ragdoll physics kicking in.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Basically they want all types of builds to be viable, not just WoW cookie-cutter builds.
Some examples:
-Melee Wizard
-Melee DH
-Petless WD
Those are just a few obvious ones that come to mind. But yah they want people to make a build that is fun for them, so you won't need pets to be successful in Inferno.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
By the English Definition, width can be any side you pick.
The mathematical definition of width,
The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side (usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back).
The mathematical definition of depth,
The depth of a box is the horizontal distance from front to back (usually not necessarily defined to be smaller than the width, the horizontal distance from side to side).
the picture i showed you is looking at it from two angles, and still it is the width. again you and the rest of the 8th graders need to learn what width is because it is FAR from relative to a wall. your just recycling the same info that ive already disproved. honestly your arguing just to argue, you dont REALLY believe that do you? if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
Idc what that sorry picture shows.
Disproved? You disproved mathematical definitions!?!? And with only a google pic,that is an impressive feat. You will likely get the Noble Prize for that.
Depth, Height, and Width are infinitely better descriptive measurements than Height, Width, Length.
Which is why those terms are outdated. For example, the "WIDESCREEN TV".
You are merely assuming blizzard is using Height, Width, Length. And then based on that, assuming the Length is the longer side.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
your widening the screen not the width of the TV, the width of the TV is still the same as the wall.
if you just trolled me idc, i just want to clerify before anyone posts what you say as an example.
NONONONONONO! by your definition you would be lengthening the screen
Yup,
Widening 1 | noun | an increase in width
2 | noun | a part of a road that has been widened to allow cars to pass or park 3 | noun | the act of making something wider
I think the alleged Retards just won this thread.
I wonder what that says about D3maniac?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
facepalm yourself for somehow passing high school without the knowledge of what width is. you and the rest of the retards arguing. i shouldnt of replied considering only a complete tard would argue the meaning of width in the first place. like i said before a WALL is far different then a box. rectangle does not = box.
geometry 101:
By the English Definition, width can be any side you pick.
That is all the above image shows.
The mathematical definition of width,
The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side (usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back).
The mathematical definition of depth,
The depth of a box is the horizontal distance from front to back (usually not necessarily defined to be smaller than the width, the horizontal distance from side to side).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
On the topic of length vs. width: These two words are entirely interchangeable and are totally relative to your orientation to the object you are describing. Length's application to zombie wall is a bit more narrow, specifying that it will simply be doubling the longest side of the wall. Width can be applied to either the shorter or longer side.
Mathematical Definition: "The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side(usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back)"
The zombie wall will always be cast perpendicular to the WD.
Therefore the longest side of the zombie wall is the horizontal side, thus the side that gets doubled.
So now we are back to square 1 with the "WALL".
wrong again. the horizontal side changes when he casts it facing a different way, if hes facing up the horizontal angle is the longest side, if he casts it left or right then the horizontal side is the width. the width is commonly known as the thickness or shortest distance of an object. that one example isnt relative to this wall, a BOX is different then a RECTANGLE > so that example is void to this. back to geometry again kids.
stop arguing, its COMMON SENSE. the rune says WIDTH, if you look at a wall from above [---------]. ] THAT is the effing width. the --- is the LENGTH. holy shit people stop. just stop.
A mathematical definition is infinitely better than an english definition.
The cast is relative to the WD not your monitor, I believe I already stated that. Besides, it also stipulates that it is often the LONGEST side.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
- 2 DOTs: one runed for longer duration and one to return HP
- 1 direct DMG with a DOT (on the ground) for additional dmg
- 2 CCs: Horrify with longer duration and Mass Confusion with reduced CD (Mass Confusion also deals dmg because the enemies attack each other)
- 1 Escape Tool: Runed for longer duration
The idea is to DOT your enemies and then start to CC them or go into Spirit Walk to avoid dmg. The 2 CCs/Spirit Walk should be enough to completly avoid any dmg (Horrify(20sec CD)->9sec Duration (11sec CD left)->Mass Confusion(28sec CD)->8sec duration (20sec CD on Confusion, 3sec on Horrify)-> recast your DOTs again-> Horrify again. You still have your Spirit Walk left if you need an escape.
[b]
THANK YOU! first person to reply exactly how they should of in the first place. [/b]
it looks decent. but what if your dealing with a small room with waves coming at you? if both your CC spells and spirit walk are on CD, what then? this is the problem im seeing with no pets, once your CC's are on CD unless your killing super fast your taking way too much dmg as a WD. yes life regen helps alot but enough to outlast damage from inferno monsters?
"THANK YOU! first person to reply exactly how they should of in the first place. [/b]"
How is that? By agreeing with you?
Then what would be the point of the forum, if everyone just agreed with whatever the first person posted?
"That build assumes that Horrify/Mass Confusion still work in Inferno (we dont know that... so its speculation)"
I think we are going kind of overboard with the word speculation, dont you?
If that is speculation, than ANYTHING and EVERYTHING outside of Beta is Speculation. You can replace Horrify/Mass confusion in that statement with almost anything.
For example,
"That build assumes that Plague of Toads still work in Inferno (we dont know that... so its speculation)"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
On the topic of length vs. width: These two words are entirely interchangeable and are totally relative to your orientation to the object you are describing. Length's application to zombie wall is a bit more narrow, specifying that it will simply be doubling the longest side of the wall. Width can be applied to either the shorter or longer side.
Mathematical Definition: "The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side(usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back)"
The zombie wall will always be cast perpendicular to the WD.
Therefore the longest side of the zombie wall is the horizontal side, thus the side that gets doubled.
So now we are back to square 1 with the "WALL".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
you do realize were talking WIDTH and not LENGTH right? two VERY different things. the WIDTH makes sense for its if able to be walked through, LENGTH would make me believe the opposite is true.
Of course, even if this was the case, they could EASILY change this one rune and zombie wall mechanics to ensure better survivability for the WD.
And even IF they can walk through it, its still a great slowing ability, aka Defensive ability without a CD.
OP has a good point. Now imagine Hardcore Inferno WD. Pets will be 100% necesery. Infact every class will be based on a safe build. And WD has an obvious safe playstyle which is to hide behind the summoned meatshields. Im pretty positive that very few players will dare to test out unconventional safe builds in harcore.
That is the whole point of Survival Mode, to survive.
Every class will likely take its BEST defensive abilities for survival mode.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
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A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I agree for inferno you will likely need pets, especially when you first begin that mode. But whats the problem with that?
Yah you can spawn 3 pets that way, could even use jungle fortitude as well.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Horizontal Red is the Width.
Vertical Red is the Height.
Horizontal Blue is the Length.
And it will ALWAYS be that way....ALWAYS!!!
For example, if we do this
Horizontal Yellow is the Width.
Vertical Yellow is the Height.
Horizontal Red is the Length.
Uhh ohh, wait a tick...
That would mean,
But, that makes no sense, because these letters are not where they are supposed to be!!!
OMG HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!?!?! How can different sides be the same thing?!?!
Mind = Blown
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
haha, you win.
+100 Internet points!!!
If you did not care, you would stop posting.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Haha, now people who disagree with your ridiculous unfounded claims are trolls.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
And Wall B is a wide screen TV.
Remember, "the screen widens, but not the TV"...so the screen of "B" is actually wider than "A".\
My Physics professor's head just exploded when he read this, but D3Maniac2012 ensures me this is how it "works".
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
That is the logical way to look at it, at least from my opinion. However, I am not going to discount either, as they are both possible.
On the other hand, D3maniac's opinion is extremely biased, and thus he claims it HAS to be "===".
He is making a baseless assumption, and then claiming it as evidence to support his views.
All of which is actually completely irrelevant, as Wall of Zombies + Slow is still a great defensive ability.
However, to consider things like that would be counter productive to his argument, so he ignores it.
The video is pretty poor, but it does look like one guy makes it through. Though, it could be some of the ragdoll physics kicking in.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Basically they want all types of builds to be viable, not just WoW cookie-cutter builds.
Some examples:
-Melee Wizard
-Melee DH
-Petless WD
Those are just a few obvious ones that come to mind. But yah they want people to make a build that is fun for them, so you won't need pets to be successful in Inferno.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Idc what that sorry picture shows.
Disproved? You disproved mathematical definitions!?!? And with only a google pic,that is an impressive feat. You will likely get the Noble Prize for that.
Depth, Height, and Width are infinitely better descriptive measurements than Height, Width, Length.
Which is why those terms are outdated. For example, the "WIDESCREEN TV".
You are merely assuming blizzard is using Height, Width, Length. And then based on that, assuming the Length is the longer side.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yup,
Widening
1 | noun | an increase in width
2 | noun | a part of a road that has been widened to allow cars to pass or park
3 | noun | the act of making something wider
I think the alleged Retards just won this thread.
I wonder what that says about D3maniac?
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
By the English Definition, width can be any side you pick.
That is all the above image shows.
The mathematical definition of width,
The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side (usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back).
The mathematical definition of depth,
The depth of a box is the horizontal distance from front to back (usually not necessarily defined to be smaller than the width, the horizontal distance from side to side).
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
A mathematical definition is infinitely better than an english definition.
The cast is relative to the WD not your monitor, I believe I already stated that. Besides, it also stipulates that it is often the LONGEST side.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
"THANK YOU! first person to reply exactly how they should of in the first place. [/b]"
How is that? By agreeing with you?
Then what would be the point of the forum, if everyone just agreed with whatever the first person posted?
"That build assumes that Horrify/Mass Confusion still work in Inferno (we dont know that... so its speculation)"
I think we are going kind of overboard with the word speculation, dont you?
If that is speculation, than ANYTHING and EVERYTHING outside of Beta is Speculation. You can replace Horrify/Mass confusion in that statement with almost anything.
For example,
"That build assumes that Plague of Toads still work in Inferno (we dont know that... so its speculation)"
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
This is true.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=width&a=*C.width-_*MathWorld-
Mathematical Definition:
"The width of a box is the horizontal distance from side to side(usually defined to be greater than the depth, the horizontal distance from front to back)"
The zombie wall will always be cast perpendicular to the WD.
Therefore the longest side of the zombie wall is the horizontal side, thus the side that gets doubled.
So now we are back to square 1 with the "WALL".
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
And even IF they can walk through it, its still a great slowing ability, aka Defensive ability without a CD.
That is the whole point of Survival Mode, to survive.
Every class will likely take its BEST defensive abilities for survival mode.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!