out of curiosity does barbarian even = barbarian ?
the new barbarian looks like he will play a little different then the old barb (thank goodness)
Well his skills' effects look absolutely badass.
As for gameplay, I think it's more the new mechanics in place that will make him different to how the old barb played- i mean the presence of health orbs, use of runes...etc..etc..
Surprisingly enough I am very much with Scyber on the new char for D3 issue.
BUT...i didn't go and 'find' reasons on why the game should be like this. The barb has returned and so as so not to spark rants on why their own favorite chars from D2 should return, blizz has said they have not a strong desire to bring old chars.
Since the WD seemed to have curses and summon (which actually he doesn't- he only got horrify and mass confusion there, and 5 zombie dogs and 15 skeletons will not remotely offer the same gamplay ) and that that was a necromancer trademark, people started to wonder whether he 'replaced' the necromancer. Turns out it was no so. The developers say on the matter was that the each class on D3 were unique and that the WD is being made with place left for the necromancer should they consider bringing him back.
This comparing of skills issue is only applicable for mass confusion which feels exactly the same as necro's confuse spell. However what I might think on the matter becomes interesting when people having played the WD report the guy is actually different. Yes skills are similar all over the place and not just between necro and WD which is why I was taking the pain in former posts to illustrate it and that it doesn't affect a char's uniqueness.
In my opinion they are not similar enough.
In Scyber's opinion, they are.
One just attacks now. Isn't is possible that if they added the necro then they could have just added some damage to the bonewall.
You high or something? Now you are talking about changing the Nekro's skill before he even makes it into the game so the 2 skills might have a similarity?
The only other skill similar to is the flame wall but it does not prevent movement which is the key aspect of both of the skills.
Flame wall... What?.
Please be nit picky and "tear" apart the other 10 skills I have commented on. With bash and firebomb, you are only comparing damage spell to damage spell, and not taking into consideration play style of these skills. I have with all of mine. I did not compare fire skull to teeth as ranged damaging attacks. I compared game mechanics and abilities of one skill to another.
That is wishful thinking. Like I would actually take the pain when there's like a shitload of people in the thread who already did it...
And just lol at the way you tried to counter the zombie wall argument. You had to change the necro's skill for that. Pathetic. And your comparisons remain broad because it limits the skills to prevent movement when one is actually doing damage. The same goes for the others. If you are too lazy to see it, I won't be helping you. Continue living in your fantasy.
Again showing more comparisons only furthers your cause of the need to add him. Also, my comparison to the WD is much more in depth and has many more examples then any of yours. You have only compared to archetypes/styles where I have given depth and reasoning.
Depth and reasoning? No shit! I am amazed. Seriously I am. Just read my previous posts really when I was actually taking the pain to explain things. If i can compare necro to barb, you do realize if what you are saying is true, the barb and WD would share similar skills and in so doing drowning your uniqueness idea.
There was no rant. There was one interview with one employee over a year and a half ago about the difference and ability to add. Things have changed greatly since then. I also understand he can be added, just that he shouldn't.
Wishful thinking.
this is exactly my point. If they add him it is not for gameplay but audience approval. To me this is not what should be done. Many people want D3 to be just like D2 but it shouldn't. New game = new characters.
Oh noes...the barb. oh shit! Blizz has already screwed with that idea of yours. And they might do it again.
A 1/3 is a lot to have in common when they are striving for each character's uniqueness. Name any other characters who have 1/3 of their skills in common with another amongst the D3 characters. Remember, we are not comparing D2 and D3. Also, do not forget the two core mechanics of each class being similar. This is important to the decision of including him. They will not have two archers, two casters, two tanks, two agile melee. They want uniqueness and so do I.
Pfft...complete failure at seeing the point in the 1/3 story but whatever.
They want uniqueness and that is why they said the WD was unique and there was still place for the necromancer.
This cannot be used as an argument because Blizzard said that they do not want to change him, not me.
Wishful thinking. That's what it is.
Please do not turn the "if we want to, he is different ENOUGH" as "he is nothing like the WD and will be in D3" statement so many have taken it for. I am not saying that the Necro will not be in D3, just that I do not want him to be and for these reasons.
Now, now...where the hell did that one come from? If we want to, he is different enough? LOL
How about if you want to, they can be similar enough? That's all I see.
You are being lazy. Do your research properly. Your so-called specific reasons are so broad you need to compensate by inventing skills not yet in the game. That was only for 1. Just apply to the 10 others really. I am not going to do this for you.
I said it- your similarities are weak. Yep they are. The only comparable one I see is mass confusion. Horrify is different from Necro's terrify. Go watch the gameplay if you are unsure. And also your similarities are extremely broad. If I begin to break them down one by one, I can predict with 100% certainty that you would have said I am being nit picky about the details. Seriously- zombie wall is the same as bone wall but with damage.
How about shit like- bash is the same as firebomb except you need to be close.
I told you- you are embarrassing yourself.
You would have had better luck with the druid really.
The reason why I was comparing the necro with others is to show you how easy it was to make those 'supposed' links that you worked hard to imagine. But of course you failed to see the point.
Now tell me, which part of blizz's ranting on how they were working on the WD and still leaving place for the Nekro, did not get into your head?
And which part where they said that the 2 classes were not alike didn't you understand?
Like I said if Necro returns he won't be exactly like in D2. And 'almost perfect' doesn't mean he cannot be modified. Just cannot be improved significantly. But who cares if thousands are able to have fun playing with him?
A third of the skills? Lol. Ill just assume you got all of them nailed down just for the sake of showing you something.
If you are having trouble with the maths, I'll do this complex bit of calculation for you- that leaves 2/3 of skills for WD... Imagine that...?
Supposing they are feeling damn lazy with the necro and supposing they'll be bringing him back, they could actually leave 2/3 of him INTACT!!! But then again that's blizz we are talking about, they'll revamp the char, I am pretty sure of it and with your level of imagination Scyber I am sure you can see a dozen variations and possibilities for each of the Necro's skill.
Too complex to understand maybe?
Your feeble comparisons are a complete fail. Neither me nor blizz sees the point that you are desperately trying to make because you do not want to see the necro in D3.
Dang....wow. I just showed you the core mechanics shared by the barb and necro, 2 completely different archetypes. I would probably find so many more similarities between the necro and another char. I seriously could, but why the fuck would I bother when you are not even reading the posts? You have kept the same shitty attitude throughout the whole thread(yes i did read the whole thread), constantly ignoring everyone's posts that showed you how wrong and weak your arguments were.
And just lol at your new poison garbage argument. Poison is just a freaking element in D3. Just like fire and you saved yourself from complete embarrassment by actually remembering 2 people could already use fire in the game.
Oh also monk can explode enemies. Oh noes, the WD can explode stuff too. That's finished. D3 chars are no longer unique. PANIC!!!!!
Seriously dude, stop embarrassing yourself. Pointless to show you reason since you've just completely closed your mind to any.
If ever you feel like posting again, listen you Samuel Jackson's advice for maybe a new take on the matter. Otherwise just drop it really.
Edit- Also forgot to tell you- you are laboring under the delusion that should the Necro come back, he'll be exactly the same as in D2. Big mistake. So all of your silly comparisons could actually be even more pointless.
In case you think I am getting annoyed for nothing let me give a sweet little recap of this thread.
Let us just move aside the fact Scyber was casually poking fun at my favorite D2 char(comparing him to an old fart and what not). I mean if I like the Necro, people definitely got the right to dislike/hate him. I can live through that. That nice story of necro being his second favorite char sounds like bullshit to me. Why? He seriously and completely lacked all sense objectivity in working out his link between the Necro and WD.
Then he goes to invent reasons why there is now no longer any place for the necro in d3. Yep the actual word here is 'invent'. Now anybody is allowed to speculate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And so, people come in the thread and post structured and detailed arguments of why the OP is too vague and inaccurate. People actually having played gave feedback on how the class differed.
What does Scyber do? Well he just ignores them- jumps from his opinion of how he sees the 2 would feel the same in gameplay when he has actually never played the WD to facts on how blizz said they did not have a strong desire to bring any old chars back.
Seriously, what was his point at this point? Is there no place because the 2 are similar or is it because necro is a char from D2 or is it just because he doesn't want to see the char again? He blatantly ignored the fact that blizz said these 2 were not alike and that they would consider bringing in the necro.
He was just going all over the place to try to rationalize his fantasy(that is all it is really). His latest post told of a game developer's point of view. The fact that he was getting desperate...is the 'old' argument which is just hilariously stupid.
Then you my good sir, just jump in the thread and announce that everybody disagreeing with the OP are fools.
Not very bright are you? Let me help you out because it is pretty obvious you hardly played D2 or maybe you are just dumb for writing such a post.
Now I'll follow the same loose (and ridiculous) 'logic' from the OP and yours paroxysm and I'll show you how the Barb and the Necro are exactly (lol) the same.
Skill-
Barb: Battle cry- lowers defence of enemies
Necro: amplify damage- lowers defence of enemies
Barb: warcry- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Necro: poison nova- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Barb: Battle orders- increase life of party member
Necro- golem and skeleton mastery- increase life of summons
Barb: double throw- ranged attack
Necro: Teeth or any bone spell you want- ranged attack
Obviously since you know(hopefully) the skills in details, it is easy to get nit picky. But this is about as solid as the OP's claims, maybe even much more.
Now let's cut the crap and get down to business here-
*The Scyber claimed that the two have the same feel. A guy popped up earlier in the thread and said someone who actually played the WD at blizzcon found they were not similar at all.
*Scyber just embarassed himself by comparing their lores which had nothing common at all. Hell he could have said all the chars in D2 had exactly the same background story because they are all based in sanctuary.
*He went on to say they looked both old, compromising their uniqueness. This is as unbelievably stupid as saying, these 2 chars are EXACTLY the same BECAUSE they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of balls.
*He claimed their skills looked similar which as STUPID as saying the barb and necro are exactly the same and which I showed you earlier on in the post. He was basically comparing 2 skills because they both had the name 'wall' in them. Couldn't see the difference between a mongrel and a skeleton. Couldn't see the difference between something like bonespear and fireblast(or was it firebomb) and just reduced them to the concept of projectile, ranged attacks.
The final proof that you and Scyber are unnecessarily ridiculing yourselves is that Blizz themselves said the 2 chars were not alike. Imagine that- the developers themselves are saying that. Of course they could be wrong, but the way you people are going about it makes this whole thread a joke at best.
You know what, now that I think about it...there might be something to that 'old' argument.
Oh wait no. It's actually as ridiculous as the other ideas.
Did you ever notice how the Amazon got long hair??? Guess what? The wizard got long hair too..
Oh noes...how in the world are we going to distinguish them now? They should have put only one char with long hair you know, to make them unique.
The necro is a pale white guy. The WD is a black guy. And you get stuck on how they both look old. How tragic.
The game mechanics argument is just as stupid really. Just go to the wiki and compare the skills of two very different archetypes (barb and necro) and you'll find yourself with enough similar skills to get another crazy theory going.
Sorry bud. This is really and easily one of your worst ideas. I am amazed to see you continue defending it. It's about as credible as the conspiracy theories surrounding the spaghetti monster.
Clearly that post made you look like at least (1/2) an imbecile.
The OP compared bone wall with wall of zombies. Can you even compare the 2? You expect a wall of zombies to just block your way and not have an offensive quality?
Now for some fun-
The OP compared 1 WHOLE skill (curse) tree of the necro to like...1 skill of the WD.
The barb could summon a sort of totem to scare enemies. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
BARB= NECRO.
Compared 1 WHOLE skill tree for offensive bone spells to like...1 skill of the WD.
The sorceress could throw firebolts at enemies. HEY SHE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
SORC= NECRO
Compared summons.
The druid could summon animals. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
DRUID=NECRO
Now for some extra fun-
Amazon could summon a warrior. Assassin could do the same.
AMAZON=ASSASSIN.
AMAZING!!! If we follow the OP's logic and yours paroxysm, we are like-
BARB=NECRO=DRUID=SORC=AMAZON=ASSASSIN=ALL CHARS THAT WERE EVER CREATED IN ARPGS.
Edit- Scyber usually puts forward very high quality threads. Pretty unusual he came up with such a garbage far-fetched theory on why he thinks WD is the same as the Necro. Guess all of his threads can't be winners. He simply doesn't want to see any more old chars return, which is fair enough. However he should just have come up with a better story than this rotten one here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well his skills' effects look absolutely badass.
As for gameplay, I think it's more the new mechanics in place that will make him different to how the old barb played- i mean the presence of health orbs, use of runes...etc..etc..
BUT...i didn't go and 'find' reasons on why the game should be like this. The barb has returned and so as so not to spark rants on why their own favorite chars from D2 should return, blizz has said they have not a strong desire to bring old chars.
Since the WD seemed to have curses and summon (which actually he doesn't- he only got horrify and mass confusion there, and 5 zombie dogs and 15 skeletons will not remotely offer the same gamplay ) and that that was a necromancer trademark, people started to wonder whether he 'replaced' the necromancer. Turns out it was no so. The developers say on the matter was that the each class on D3 were unique and that the WD is being made with place left for the necromancer should they consider bringing him back.
This comparing of skills issue is only applicable for mass confusion which feels exactly the same as necro's confuse spell. However what I might think on the matter becomes interesting when people having played the WD report the guy is actually different. Yes skills are similar all over the place and not just between necro and WD which is why I was taking the pain in former posts to illustrate it and that it doesn't affect a char's uniqueness.
In my opinion they are not similar enough.
In Scyber's opinion, they are.
And so the story ends.
Oh paroxysm...relaaaaaaaaaaaax duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
You high or something? Now you are talking about changing the Nekro's skill before he even makes it into the game so the 2 skills might have a similarity?
Flame wall... What?.
That is wishful thinking. Like I would actually take the pain when there's like a shitload of people in the thread who already did it...
And just lol at the way you tried to counter the zombie wall argument. You had to change the necro's skill for that. Pathetic. And your comparisons remain broad because it limits the skills to prevent movement when one is actually doing damage. The same goes for the others. If you are too lazy to see it, I won't be helping you. Continue living in your fantasy.
Depth and reasoning? No shit! I am amazed. Seriously I am. Just read my previous posts really when I was actually taking the pain to explain things. If i can compare necro to barb, you do realize if what you are saying is true, the barb and WD would share similar skills and in so doing drowning your uniqueness idea.
Wishful thinking.
Oh noes...the barb. oh shit! Blizz has already screwed with that idea of yours. And they might do it again.
Pfft...complete failure at seeing the point in the 1/3 story but whatever.
They want uniqueness and that is why they said the WD was unique and there was still place for the necromancer.
Wishful thinking. That's what it is.
Now, now...where the hell did that one come from? If we want to, he is different enough? LOL
How about if you want to, they can be similar enough? That's all I see.
You are being lazy. Do your research properly. Your so-called specific reasons are so broad you need to compensate by inventing skills not yet in the game. That was only for 1. Just apply to the 10 others really. I am not going to do this for you.
How about shit like- bash is the same as firebomb except you need to be close.
I told you- you are embarrassing yourself.
You would have had better luck with the druid really.
The reason why I was comparing the necro with others is to show you how easy it was to make those 'supposed' links that you worked hard to imagine. But of course you failed to see the point.
Now tell me, which part of blizz's ranting on how they were working on the WD and still leaving place for the Nekro, did not get into your head?
And which part where they said that the 2 classes were not alike didn't you understand?
Like I said if Necro returns he won't be exactly like in D2. And 'almost perfect' doesn't mean he cannot be modified. Just cannot be improved significantly. But who cares if thousands are able to have fun playing with him?
A third of the skills? Lol. Ill just assume you got all of them nailed down just for the sake of showing you something.
If you are having trouble with the maths, I'll do this complex bit of calculation for you- that leaves 2/3 of skills for WD... Imagine that...?
Supposing they are feeling damn lazy with the necro and supposing they'll be bringing him back, they could actually leave 2/3 of him INTACT!!! But then again that's blizz we are talking about, they'll revamp the char, I am pretty sure of it and with your level of imagination Scyber I am sure you can see a dozen variations and possibilities for each of the Necro's skill.
Too complex to understand maybe?
Your feeble comparisons are a complete fail. Neither me nor blizz sees the point that you are desperately trying to make because you do not want to see the necro in D3.
And just lol at your new poison garbage argument. Poison is just a freaking element in D3. Just like fire and you saved yourself from complete embarrassment by actually remembering 2 people could already use fire in the game.
Oh also monk can explode enemies. Oh noes, the WD can explode stuff too. That's finished. D3 chars are no longer unique. PANIC!!!!!
Seriously dude, stop embarrassing yourself. Pointless to show you reason since you've just completely closed your mind to any.
If ever you feel like posting again, listen you Samuel Jackson's advice for maybe a new take on the matter. Otherwise just drop it really.
Edit- Also forgot to tell you- you are laboring under the delusion that should the Necro come back, he'll be exactly the same as in D2. Big mistake. So all of your silly comparisons could actually be even more pointless.
That's all you ever got right in this thread.
In case you think I am getting annoyed for nothing let me give a sweet little recap of this thread.
Let us just move aside the fact Scyber was casually poking fun at my favorite D2 char(comparing him to an old fart and what not). I mean if I like the Necro, people definitely got the right to dislike/hate him. I can live through that. That nice story of necro being his second favorite char sounds like bullshit to me. Why? He seriously and completely lacked all sense objectivity in working out his link between the Necro and WD.
Then he goes to invent reasons why there is now no longer any place for the necro in d3. Yep the actual word here is 'invent'. Now anybody is allowed to speculate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And so, people come in the thread and post structured and detailed arguments of why the OP is too vague and inaccurate. People actually having played gave feedback on how the class differed.
What does Scyber do? Well he just ignores them- jumps from his opinion of how he sees the 2 would feel the same in gameplay when he has actually never played the WD to facts on how blizz said they did not have a strong desire to bring any old chars back.
Seriously, what was his point at this point? Is there no place because the 2 are similar or is it because necro is a char from D2 or is it just because he doesn't want to see the char again? He blatantly ignored the fact that blizz said these 2 were not alike and that they would consider bringing in the necro.
He was just going all over the place to try to rationalize his fantasy(that is all it is really). His latest post told of a game developer's point of view. The fact that he was getting desperate...is the 'old' argument which is just hilariously stupid.
Then you my good sir, just jump in the thread and announce that everybody disagreeing with the OP are fools.
You 2 have been trolling all along really.
Now I'll follow the same loose (and ridiculous) 'logic' from the OP and yours paroxysm and I'll show you how the Barb and the Necro are exactly (lol) the same.
Skill-
Barb: Battle cry- lowers defence of enemies
Necro: amplify damage- lowers defence of enemies
Barb:Grim ward- frightens enemies
Necro: Terrify- frightens enemies
Barb: warcry- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Necro: poison nova- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Barb: Battle orders- increase life of party member
Necro- golem and skeleton mastery- increase life of summons
Barb: double throw- ranged attack
Necro: Teeth or any bone spell you want- ranged attack
Obviously since you know(hopefully) the skills in details, it is easy to get nit picky. But this is about as solid as the OP's claims, maybe even much more.
Now let's cut the crap and get down to business here-
*The Scyber claimed that the two have the same feel. A guy popped up earlier in the thread and said someone who actually played the WD at blizzcon found they were not similar at all.
*Scyber just embarassed himself by comparing their lores which had nothing common at all. Hell he could have said all the chars in D2 had exactly the same background story because they are all based in sanctuary.
*He went on to say they looked both old, compromising their uniqueness. This is as unbelievably stupid as saying, these 2 chars are EXACTLY the same BECAUSE they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of balls.
*He claimed their skills looked similar which as STUPID as saying the barb and necro are exactly the same and which I showed you earlier on in the post. He was basically comparing 2 skills because they both had the name 'wall' in them. Couldn't see the difference between a mongrel and a skeleton. Couldn't see the difference between something like bonespear and fireblast(or was it firebomb) and just reduced them to the concept of projectile, ranged attacks.
The final proof that you and Scyber are unnecessarily ridiculing yourselves is that Blizz themselves said the 2 chars were not alike. Imagine that- the developers themselves are saying that. Of course they could be wrong, but the way you people are going about it makes this whole thread a joke at best.
You know what, now that I think about it...there might be something to that 'old' argument.
Oh wait no. It's actually as ridiculous as the other ideas.
Did you ever notice how the Amazon got long hair??? Guess what? The wizard got long hair too..
Oh noes...how in the world are we going to distinguish them now? They should have put only one char with long hair you know, to make them unique.
The necro is a pale white guy. The WD is a black guy. And you get stuck on how they both look old. How tragic.
The game mechanics argument is just as stupid really. Just go to the wiki and compare the skills of two very different archetypes (barb and necro) and you'll find yourself with enough similar skills to get another crazy theory going.
Sorry bud. This is really and easily one of your worst ideas. I am amazed to see you continue defending it. It's about as credible as the conspiracy theories surrounding the spaghetti monster.
The OP compared bone wall with wall of zombies. Can you even compare the 2? You expect a wall of zombies to just block your way and not have an offensive quality?
Now for some fun-
The OP compared 1 WHOLE skill (curse) tree of the necro to like...1 skill of the WD.
The barb could summon a sort of totem to scare enemies. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
BARB= NECRO.
Compared 1 WHOLE skill tree for offensive bone spells to like...1 skill of the WD.
The sorceress could throw firebolts at enemies. HEY SHE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
SORC= NECRO
Compared summons.
The druid could summon animals. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
DRUID=NECRO
Now for some extra fun-
Amazon could summon a warrior. Assassin could do the same.
AMAZON=ASSASSIN.
AMAZING!!! If we follow the OP's logic and yours paroxysm, we are like-
BARB=NECRO=DRUID=SORC=AMAZON=ASSASSIN=ALL CHARS THAT WERE EVER CREATED IN ARPGS.
Edit- Scyber usually puts forward very high quality threads. Pretty unusual he came up with such a garbage far-fetched theory on why he thinks WD is the same as the Necro. Guess all of his threads can't be winners. He simply doesn't want to see any more old chars return, which is fair enough. However he should just have come up with a better story than this rotten one here.