I think the scaling of real life yards to in game yards is different. 15 yards should be a fair amount. With some skills being 24 yards , That sounds like a lot of range but it turns out its a dash small. I wonder if this is going to be fixed or if its all intentional. or the last option Iv lost my faint grip on reality. All are good options.
The skill itself may be easily replaced but its runes give it the ability to fit in a lot of places.
The runes really add to the skill in my opinion, Getting that extra damage, fear , extra health or spirit regeneration for that 25 extra spirit seems worth it. I like indigo for that extra health.
And btw, no wonder that guy dies in inferno whit the shitty build he had... Don't tell me that this guy was a pro... He had like 7SS, WOL and BOH in the same build. No sane person would ever go for such a heavy spirit spender build.
I dont know, there could be some merit behind his build. Lets say he has guardians path ( so 20% spirit regen) and lets say for fun he has a golden rune in way of the hundred fists. He could very well get the spirit to fuel this choice. Not to mention when this was taken monks had a bit more spirit to play with. Who's to say that the gameplay is the guy playing and not just them taking good looking skills to make it look that little bit better ?
Everyone would agree that there is no point having breath of heaven if you can just spam the mantra of healing for half the price and gives almost the same amount of healing. There is definetly going to be cooldowns on stuff and it is not implemented yet. If you check the video from blizzard where they say that we are gonna die, if you check carefully, i recall seeing a cooldown on wave of light in that video. And btw, no wonder that guy dies in inferno whit the shitty build he had... Don't tell me that this guy was a pro... He had like 7SS, WOL and BOH in the same build. No sane person would ever go for such a heavy spirit spender build.
I resent that ( on a joke level of course) I have BoH in my build for a good reason. It gives me the option to heal and yet keep my mantra of evasion. As well with the indigo rune I can heal more. Some would say the obsidian rune makes it worth it. The skill itself may be easily replaced but its runes give it the ability to fit in a lot of places.
I think that there will definetly be a cooldown on mantras upon game release. Take for example the bonus from "mantra of healing", it heals as much as a unruned "breath of heaven" over 3 sec but for half the cost. Also, if you where using the indigo rune on this same mantra, you could basically keep up the shield going almost forever. I really doubt that there won't be any cooldowns on mantras.
I dont think they will re-add CDs for the Mantras. IMHO they will change some runes e.g. Indigo Healing... I would guess they will add a CD on the rune. Same with things like the healing on Mantra of Healing... I would guess that they rather change the amount of healing that reintroduce the CD for the whole skill. If you think about it they changed the Mantras from CD -> no CD because they felt like a 4th passive... so I dont see the point in reintroducing the CD Oo they would again feel like a 4th passive.
A simple " this can only occur every 120 seconds" kind of thing for mantra of healings indigo rune. The reason mantras no longer had a cooldown was they wanted it to feel like an active skill and not just a button you hit once and forget. Adding a cooldown is going backwords. Im sure with the rune and skill modification being released that we will get accurate numbers.
I love Mantra of Healing myself. I have two tank builds. One using dodge to tank and the other using healing. I will post them in a little bit I just got home so you will have to give me an hour or so to make a decent response to you.
I prefer to dodge the damage then take it and have to heal back the health . Thats just my opinion tho. I hope to see your build in one place or another.
Game's not about damage it's about survival. None of us really know how hard this game will be but I have a strong feeling that it will require every type of class have to seriously take into account survival. The original point was not if Cyclone Strike is powerful. It was weighing the option of adding some different form of sustain that would do more for less. We understand the move is powerful and that pulling the enemies is a great idea but that leads to the processes of min-maxing stats to get damage. Impressive numbers mean one thing, but a good player survives to DPS another day.
Remember you don't do damage if you die my friend.
I personally don't like cyclone strike for the reason it brings potentially lots of enemies to you rather then you picking them off. Is it just me or does obsidian rune for cyclone strike seem to be the most common rune?
I was trying to find the actual speed of those fury building attacks but just could'nt find them. The 0.75 attack/sec was for all 3 attacks from spirit generator. If you tell me that there is no way i can pull that much, i would definetly need to review my spread sheet and do some adjustments.
Wait what? So you assume that you do 0.75 Rotations/sec. And not 0.75 Attacks/sec? Thats basically 0.75*3 = 2.25 Attacks/sec? Well than you generate more Spirit... (and its Spirit and not Fury... that Fury thing is confusing^^). And yes assuming 2.25 Attacks/sec is ok. If you use Fist Weapons and dualwield you get up to 1.61 Attacks/sec and so you need 2.25/1.61 = ~40% Attackspeed from Items. That sounds ok considering that the highest lvl 60 Affix gives you 17%.
Also you were looking for "actual" attackspeeds of the Spirit Gens well you can look here: http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189 that are all the Spirit Gens that are in the beta... so you have to assume something for Sweeping Winds
Not to mention the attack speed from using some spirit generators. So with the right spirit generators you can get that little bit faster meaning more spirit per second and thus using cyclone strike in that build could be used that bit more. There are still Some variables we don't know. like the attack speed on spirit generators.
IIRC in the first few beta patches you could find the 2nd stage (4-5% attackspeed)... now its only 2-3% attackspeed. But I'm not sure. Then again if you add the best flat bonus 0.25 Attack/sec to a Fist Weapon with 1.4 base Attack/sec you end with 1.65 Attacks/sec.... now add 15% for DWing and the 48% for 3 Stacks from Obsidian WotHF (that is btw only with a lvl4 Rune... with a lvl 7 rune its even more attackspeed). Also if you add an Amulet with +17% Attackspeed you get even more Oo If you look at the list +% Attackspeed can spawn on Rings/Gloves/Amulet... thats 4 Items (2 Rings) that can spawn with +17% Attackspeed.
The only way to stop huge numbers is to implement a hard cap for haste... and I'm not sure if they would do something like this.
This video shows the rough visual affects to way of the hundred fists and a rough rank 7 rune. With obsidian the attack speed increases by 66% . That sounds too good to be true . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodrei871ps
So... all that aside. I was thinking about Combination Strike for my own build... do you guys think its a good passive if you only use 2 Spirit Gens? Its basicly the decision between some of the passives. I really want Seize the Initiative and Transcendence for now... other intresting passives would be Resolve, Sixth Sense and One with Everything. The question is, is 16% increased damage (2 Gens) worth the same as -30%dmg, 50%crit as dodge or resistances :/
Hmmmmmm that is a conundrum you have there. I would say you have things fine as is but if you had to switch one out I would switch resolve. Keep in mind I would only switch if I had to. With all of your skills getting resolve out and keeping it on your targets is easy.
Did you just change your signature ? Id say once again that it looks good and that theres no need to add combination strike
About the Attackspeed "limit" and not letting it rampage like it did in D2... its kinda old (Patch 4) but the DH here has an Attackspeed of 2.38 Attacks/sec.
And that is with lvl13 and only lvl13 gear
My lvl 13 DH even with stacking attack speed is having trouble breaking 2aps. I have a feeling it will act kinda like wow. As you level and get better gear it will require more and more attack speed to reach the same number. Also I may be wrong, got in the beta after patch 10 so I have not been keeping a close eye on everything, but didn't they change many of the mechanics for the DH since then. On top of that I also read that the stat system was stripped down and changed quite a few times during the beta.
There are a few variables that have changed since then. It could be that gear does not have quite as much increase attack speed as it did in patch 4. The scaling with levels ratio could have changed.
Edit: Rym beat me to it yeah I linked that topic pretty often all over the monk forum^^. Also @azuresky what do you mean with "dimishing returns"? As far as I know there are no dimishing returns on dodge... all it does is add multiplicative (and thats not the same thing as having dimishing returns :D).
I think the multiplicative factor would be enough of a diminishing return . Or at lest I hope so.
Guess I'm a little tired after the long day. I'm gonna head out for the night, but I assure you I will be back
yea... my girlfriend would not be too pleased if I slept through the movie marathon tomorrow. Im out for now too. Pick this up again same time tomorrow ? xD
Your build looks good to me. I may be a bit tiered to catch something.
Okay after all of this talk I worked over my build once more. Instead of ramping using Way with onyx I'm using crimson to get that extra distance closer. Same can be said for 7SS although that is also a great DPS CD anyway. Breath is used whenever you get low or need to set up the buff again.
I was debating the runes on the Mantra and the Mantra choice itself. I know in Rym's build he is using dodge but I have a feeling that after all is said and done between the 2 passives + Mantra + natural dodge from dexterity you might be running to heavily into diminishing returns to really see much of a bonus. So I chose Mantra of Healing. Still then the runes were a hard choice so I picked one that provides a really good output per activation.
I was also thinking of switching Six Sense to Seize the Initiative for the same issue of diminishing returns. This however is another one of those "we will see when the game ships" changes.
Back in my WoW days i played a druid tank, so i know a lot about diminishing returns. I hope Im not hurt too too bad by this. I could very well be ok at higher levels its as you said wait and see when the games out. If Im a bit over in dodge then ill just have to use transcendence .
As for your mantra of healing issue. thats a tough one... the golden rune, soothing breeze seems nice. the extra spirit may be useful and could at lest help fuel the mantra. Or boon of protection seems a bit scary. a shield for 25% of your health.
1)@Rym How do you end up with 2.38 Attack/sec? If I'm not mistaken its 16%*3 Stacks = 48% Attackspeed increase. DWing is 15% Attackspeed increase. If we assume that its additive... its 48%+15% = 63% Attackspeed bonus. 1.4*1.63 = 2.282 Attacks/sec.
Im blaming that on my dyslexia >_> i punched it in my calculator and I get the answer you said. I must have messed something up.
Tenhi has linked this link so many times. I think it applies here ( it took me a second to find it) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455189 some generators will be faster so that attack per second and in turn spirit per second may go up a bit.
Im shocked Tenhi has not beet me to it to be honest .>_>
How do you end up with 8.4 Spirit without buffs? I assume 1.4 base Attackspeed (Fist Weapons) and add the 15% Attackspeed bonus for DWing... that puts us at 1.4*1.15 = 1.61 Attacks/sec and thuse we gain 9.66 Spirit/sec. Do you use slower Weapons?
With obsidian way of the hundred fist that goes up to 2.38 attacks per second. so 14.28 spirit per second. Not to mention combos seem to be faster then normal attacks.
I need more people like you guys in the DH forum. At least in here we have very good discussions about how to properly make a build. Not just make some assumptions at the numbers and accuse each other of being wrong XD
I know. Its nice to have people who understand. If you ever want to talk about other classes I can try xD weather it be on the forums or a privet message.
As for dashing strike being a drop in DPS I disagree. With obsidian way of the hundred fists I will have a increased attack speed. Dashing strike allows me to put the exploding palm and other parts of my combos exactly where I want them to be. It also can get me from group A to group B. In my build I would not mind using the mantra and dashing strike as often as I can, assuming the spirit allows me to.
I take it your one of the lucky ones that has a beta key? normal attacks should not generate spirit >_> thats not right. could it be a bug?
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The runes really add to the skill in my opinion, Getting that extra damage, fear , extra health or spirit regeneration for that 25 extra spirit seems worth it. I like indigo for that extra health.
My ears are burning , im one of a kind.
This video shows the rough visual affects to way of the hundred fists and a rough rank 7 rune. With obsidian the attack speed increases by 66% . That sounds too good to be true .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodrei871ps
Hmmmmmm that is a conundrum you have there. I would say you have things fine as is but if you had to switch one out I would switch resolve. Keep in mind I would only switch if I had to. With all of your skills getting resolve out and keeping it on your targets is easy.
Did you just change your signature ? Id say once again that it looks good and that theres no need to add combination strike
For the extra 16% in damage there are better easier ways to get that damage and have more survivability.
yea... my girlfriend would not be too pleased if I slept through the movie marathon tomorrow. Im out for now too. Pick this up again same time tomorrow ? xD
Your build looks good to me. I may be a bit tiered to catch something.
As for your mantra of healing issue. thats a tough one... the golden rune, soothing breeze seems nice. the extra spirit may be useful and could at lest help fuel the mantra. Or boon of protection seems a bit scary. a shield for 25% of your health.
Im blaming that on my dyslexia >_> i punched it in my calculator and I get the answer you said. I must have messed something up.
Im shocked Tenhi has not beet me to it to be honest .>_>
As for dashing strike being a drop in DPS I disagree. With obsidian way of the hundred fists I will have a increased attack speed. Dashing strike allows me to put the exploding palm and other parts of my combos exactly where I want them to be. It also can get me from group A to group B. In my build I would not mind using the mantra and dashing strike as often as I can, assuming the spirit allows me to.
I take it your one of the lucky ones that has a beta key? normal attacks should not generate spirit >_> thats not right. could it be a bug?