Thanks. So are we basically happy with the structure now?
The one thing missing is a breakpoint notice for the max level, but I think it will do itself better as a piece of text in the necessary articles instead of being a part of the ksill template itself.
Yea it looks fine to me. Just about time to start slaving away at these things.
Thanks for the info on the images. I'm now a proud owner of a few folders full of a few dozen split gifs of skill icons lol. Skill tabs look like they have to be SS'd though, the gif stores it in pieces, and is obviously without the skill icons. No biggie.
You can take the variables sequentially from the user so it is easier to put them in, but then just line them up like that in your output. I think you'd have to do formatting on each 'level' cell if you wanted to change the font size or something for emphasis.
For the skills trees though, I really like what you've done and don't think it merits an overhaul at this point
On images, how are you guys getting the skill icon & tab files? Are you pulling them out of the game files? If so is there a naming convention for them? I have an MPQ viewier/extractor, but uh, some of Blizz's naming conventions are a bit hard to fiigure out (unless i'm looking in the wrong place)
I think it works quite well. Tested it for 1152x864 and it looks good, only 1024x78 gets a little tight. Still, I don't really know how to implement a verttical idea in a good way, so unless yo give me an idea there I don't really know what to do.
Tell me if you have any gripes with this setup so we can get to implementing the skill pages finally.
That definately looks good. We can go with that.
Your link has a paren missing from the end of the URL. But that page looks sweet, that will definitely work. That is just a "how it looks" page right? Are you going to make a template with variables to fill in, or should we just copy the template and fill it in as needed?
I think I have an idea how to do a vertical table with variables, but there really is no point, I think this way looks fine.
Side notes: did you change the formatting for sections? I don't recall having a horizontal line accompany each section before, but I could be wrong.
Is there a method for searching the uploaded file list that works better than the default? I've just been been looking at the list in 500 file segments and using browser-find lol.
Though as of now, that's no good either, since you can't clearly see where the levels row is either.
Yea, even with the larger text the level row just doesn't "pop" enough.
I'm not sure how to do the vertical table idea, at least not easily.
*Edit* just came across something else. The skill tree pages. I don't think we need a template, Seth's example with the sorc skills works very well. http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Cold_Spells
I see what you mean. It looks a little moshed up, but perhaps if the levels were emphasized more it would look better? Altenratively we could also skip the second header that says level 11-20, that could perhaps make it a little less bulky.
Yea, removing both headings and using the level row as a break seems to make it quite a bit more compact: Sandbox.
Not sure if you want the table lacking a header though.
I think it could be done like the monster stats template! So when it comes to Molten Boulder, you just include the variable mana cost, average damage per sec etc. When it comes to ordinary skills, you just exclude those!
Yea, I was assuming that would be in it, but the question is how does it look with that big table? I think phrozen is going for a moderately small page for each skill, and the image eats up a good chunk of width & height.
I created a test using my Sandbox that shows what molten boulder would look like using 2 10 level tables, and all the exact formatting phrozen had in the original, except I changed the text to center aligned. Its kinda big, kinda bulky, but every skill is there, and easy to find. I think it works, but the table is bigger than the rest of the info, looks a bit odd.
Can't two rows would out better though somehow? I think I might experiment with that, see how it will look at least.
I think it would work fine if you put a delimiter between them, a break line perhaps. The only problem I see is a skill like Molten Boulder, that has variable mana cost, damage, fire damage, and avg dmg per sec. Thats two 5 row tables, could look a bit big, but it would probably be fine.
For the spacing you've got going, 20 won't fit in a row next to the pic in 1152x864 or 1280x1024. It looks like 20 would fit under 1400x900, but obviously that would make no sense for anyone viewing it under a dif res. Overall il looks ok under the higher resolutions.
Possible solutions to skill boxes are to list only odd skills 1-19, or do two 10 skill layers. This could be bad for skills with 4 variables though, would look kinda bulky. You could also try to decrease the cell width, but thats probably a bad idea since some skills will be xxx-xxx damage.
I meant that if I go to the Sorceress teleport page and look at it, there will be a list at the bottom showing what items come with teleport on them (in this case, that's just enigma). Likewise if I go to Summon Skeleton, I will find a complete list of all unique, set and runeword items that have +to Summon skeleton. That way you can easily see what items will benefit your build.
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking it would be better to leave off class specific item bonuses from the skill pages, IE like wands giving potential bonuses to skeletons. With the exception of skills like Holy Shield, that only appear very rarely on items, I think that might deserve a small note. I don't know if there are any other skills that do that, HS is the only one I know of off the top of my head.
You probably already have something similar, but I found a small tool that let me Copy-paste a table from The Summit, and it returns the data but separated by pipes, nice and simple to throw into a table: http://excel2wiki.net/ I'm not a fan of having to insert large amounts of formatting manually so that seems pretty useful to me, and let me build a table quickly and easily.
I threw together a test/sample table in a few mins on my Talk Page (Wasn't sure where to do a test/sample page.) Obviously color standards would help, but I don't think it looks half-bad. Can maybe split it into two groups of 10 like Seth has on the older Hydra page, but I don't think that's necessary. If it goes towards the bottom of the skill page, the long 20 table shouldn't interfere with anything.
Phrozen, for the +skills items, do you mean things like Enigma adding to teleport or Bloodletter adding to sword mastery & whirlwind? It might be good for the few skills that can cross classes via runewords to have a special note signifying this, with the item page linked of course.
The only other thing I can think of, is if you're doing a template is to include fields for whether a skill is Active or Passive, and the damage school. (School is actually already used on the new hydra page.)
What constitutes a diminishing return cap for a skill page though? For conviction it is easy because it hard locks at 150, but most other skills continue to increase at much lower rates.
For example, critical strike, every point below 7 increases the value at least 3 percent, between 7 and 13 is 2-3 percent, and every point after 13 is 1 or less. For all practical purposes, the skill caps out at 77% at level 42. What parts of this information should be on the wiki? For this skill it seems to have 2 split points, through the second is much harsher.
Yea it looks fine to me. Just about time to start slaving away at these things.
Thanks for the info on the images. I'm now a proud owner of a few folders full of a few dozen split gifs of skill icons lol. Skill tabs look like they have to be SS'd though, the gif stores it in pieces, and is obviously without the skill icons. No biggie.
I'd say good to go with what you've created.
All you would really have to do is invert the rows & columns inside your template. It would look something like:
!- Level || Damage || Mana
|- 1 || dmg1 || m1
|- 2 || dmg2 || m2
You can take the variables sequentially from the user so it is easier to put them in, but then just line them up like that in your output. I think you'd have to do formatting on each 'level' cell if you wanted to change the font size or something for emphasis.
For the skills trees though, I really like what you've done and don't think it merits an overhaul at this point
On images, how are you guys getting the skill icon & tab files? Are you pulling them out of the game files? If so is there a naming convention for them? I have an MPQ viewier/extractor, but uh, some of Blizz's naming conventions are a bit hard to fiigure out (unless i'm looking in the wrong place)
Your link has a paren missing from the end of the URL. But that page looks sweet, that will definitely work. That is just a "how it looks" page right? Are you going to make a template with variables to fill in, or should we just copy the template and fill it in as needed?
I think I have an idea how to do a vertical table with variables, but there really is no point, I think this way looks fine.
Side notes: did you change the formatting for sections? I don't recall having a horizontal line accompany each section before, but I could be wrong.
Is there a method for searching the uploaded file list that works better than the default? I've just been been looking at the list in 500 file segments and using browser-find lol.
Yea, even with the larger text the level row just doesn't "pop" enough.
I'm not sure how to do the vertical table idea, at least not easily.
*Edit* just came across something else. The skill tree pages. I don't think we need a template, Seth's example with the sorc skills works very well. http://wiki.diablofans.com/index.php/Cold_Spells
Yea, removing both headings and using the level row as a break seems to make it quite a bit more compact: Sandbox.
Not sure if you want the table lacking a header though.
Yea, I was assuming that would be in it, but the question is how does it look with that big table? I think phrozen is going for a moderately small page for each skill, and the image eats up a good chunk of width & height.
I created a test using my Sandbox that shows what molten boulder would look like using 2 10 level tables, and all the exact formatting phrozen had in the original, except I changed the text to center aligned. Its kinda big, kinda bulky, but every skill is there, and easy to find. I think it works, but the table is bigger than the rest of the info, looks a bit odd.
I think it would work fine if you put a delimiter between them, a break line perhaps. The only problem I see is a skill like Molten Boulder, that has variable mana cost, damage, fire damage, and avg dmg per sec. Thats two 5 row tables, could look a bit big, but it would probably be fine.
Possible solutions to skill boxes are to list only odd skills 1-19, or do two 10 skill layers. This could be bad for skills with 4 variables though, would look kinda bulky. You could also try to decrease the cell width, but thats probably a bad idea since some skills will be xxx-xxx damage.
Thats all I can come up with at the moment
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking it would be better to leave off class specific item bonuses from the skill pages, IE like wands giving potential bonuses to skeletons. With the exception of skills like Holy Shield, that only appear very rarely on items, I think that might deserve a small note. I don't know if there are any other skills that do that, HS is the only one I know of off the top of my head.
You probably already have something similar, but I found a small tool that let me Copy-paste a table from The Summit, and it returns the data but separated by pipes, nice and simple to throw into a table: http://excel2wiki.net/ I'm not a fan of having to insert large amounts of formatting manually so that seems pretty useful to me, and let me build a table quickly and easily.
I threw together a test/sample table in a few mins on my Talk Page (Wasn't sure where to do a test/sample page.) Obviously color standards would help, but I don't think it looks half-bad. Can maybe split it into two groups of 10 like Seth has on the older Hydra page, but I don't think that's necessary. If it goes towards the bottom of the skill page, the long 20 table shouldn't interfere with anything.
Phrozen, for the +skills items, do you mean things like Enigma adding to teleport or Bloodletter adding to sword mastery & whirlwind? It might be good for the few skills that can cross classes via runewords to have a special note signifying this, with the item page linked of course.
The only other thing I can think of, is if you're doing a template is to include fields for whether a skill is Active or Passive, and the damage school. (School is actually already used on the new hydra page.)
For example, critical strike, every point below 7 increases the value at least 3 percent, between 7 and 13 is 2-3 percent, and every point after 13 is 1 or less. For all practical purposes, the skill caps out at 77% at level 42. What parts of this information should be on the wiki? For this skill it seems to have 2 split points, through the second is much harsher.
Info came from http://www.d2items.com/skills.php so it may be flawed, but i doubt it.