The gear is a too much of deciding factor, while i primairly do PvP, here i will not. I don't see this game getting a large follow from competitve PvPers.
You can argue that part of the "skill" is creating a good gear set and yes while this is so in many rpg's there's simply too large of a gap between how items scale at 60, also the ability to buy gear without any effort in game is why i'll let this pass me by as there are beter made alternatives around and more upcoming.
I will play PvP on a competitive level if it's done as in another upcoming game where the PvP sets are fairly easy obtainable by all, So that gear becomes a matter of preference to add to your build being the choices you make in your gearing being more important then your accesibility to higher grade gear.
However seeing how much of an importance gear farming and now over the next few weeks buying will become it's unlikely to see that happening, so I don't see what claims blizzard could make to turn this into an esport if they wanted to other then throwing money at organisers.
With seeing how D3 plays out. Gear is much more important then it was in D2. Only way esports plays off is if set gear rules were established and I doubt there is many out there in the community that will put forth the hard work and dedication it would take to get it off the floor. D2 would be a much easier game to esport then D3. Either way, when there are variables like crit, gear, dice rolls. That opens the gates to complaining, worst thing you can have at the esport level is complaining of lucky rolls or foul play.
Diablo3 is and will be Pay2Win. Because of the RMAH. So... ofc it will not be something like Starcraft etc. Hell no.... and if so, yeh. Gratz to the most rich person beeing the best player in Diablo3.
Might be some truth to this currently. Items in Diablo 3 play a much larger part of surviving and doing damage then they did in Diablo 2. Someone who out gears you by a tier in D3 will have a huge advantage over you, but well see. People always suck at PvP anyway, I see kids who play SF day in day out for past years and they still haven't gotten any good ha.
"So for me, if a community builds around it similar to the community that built around Diablo II, then I will feel like it’s a success. If that community is vibrant and wars with each other, and with us, and struggles and fights to make the game better, then to me that's worth continuing to work on the game. That’s success." - Jay Wilson, Director of Diablo 3
Ecut sits there and criticizes the Diablo 2 community and how bad they were and how they arn't welcomed in D3. Yet Jay Wilson, his idol is basing the games success on if Diablo 3's community can match up to Diablo 2's. Even uses such words as "community is vibrant and wars with each other, and with us, and struggles and fights to make the game better". You don't get that kind of a community if Blizzard holds everyones hands and doesn't give us the ability to craft it ourselves. You don't get that in "casual" arena where losses and wins apparently mean nothing to the mass majority. You don't get that in a predominantly PvM game.
Blizzard COULD make Diablo 3 viable for eSports. However, they're NOT going to do it.
How the hell does such a simple concept go for 18 pages?
This is barely about esports anymore. The thread has turned more into Ecut trying to run a tutorial on how you should play Diablo and how you shouldn't.
Good to see my little statement created such chaos ha.
I guess ill reword it now that I look back at it.
I play to win, winning is fun to me. Losing is only fun to me if it was a fair fight and I learned something that can help me fix my short commings and help me win, otherwise it is not fun. I don't play to be put in unfair situations and lose. I feel and have seen that this mentality is supported by the majority of players I have played/met.
For a pro gamer tie in, winning is fun for them, they get paid. If they lost, they find out why and how and better their odds next time. If they lose for no apparent reason or because it was an unfair fight, then it is definitely not fun.
Many around here forgot that LoL had it's e-sport status thanks to it's popularity, streamers and the tourneys, in which, Riot games had nothing to do till later on. People should get their facts straight before saying LoL is an e-sport because Riot supported it. Riot supported it when there was already a fanbase and interest on watching it, which was a good move for a game you don't really know how it's going to work, but community made that possible.
Dude, you've got your facts completely wrong. Riot supported the e-sports aspect of the game from the get-go. There was a ladder system and season one started shortly after the beta. Of course there were already people interested in the game and playing it, it was free.
You are wrong if you think that LoL would have anywhere near the amount of $$ involved in it if Riot wasn't supporting it. THE MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.
You want D3 to be an e-Sport? I hope you have deep pockets.
Adon, howabout you comment on this argument? You seem to be completely ignoring it because you clearly have no counter. If D3 is to become a competitive e-Sport, someone will have to fund it. I'm afraid that competitive players aren't really attracted to games that are not balanced around the competition.
I am not looking for Diablo e-sport, nor do I think it will become one. There are to many variables to make it a dependable game where it relies on skill only.
Now, as far as funding if it was to happen. The community could definitely fund it. Street fighter didn't start off or continue because Capcom or vendors supported or sponsored it. It takes a ton of hard work from the community and the payouts will be very low for a long time, it would need years to gain steam and become a real deal. Which again, odds are won't happen.
Also I am not ignoring any post, I can't respond to every post in the thread or ill have a page alone in just 1 reply. I pick what I can talk about most intelligently and comment back on that, just so happened that I wasn't involved or concerned with what him and you were talking about.
From some random english dictionary (http://oxforddictionaries.com). Online ofc since I don't have a propper english dictionary as I'm not english. So why is it that just because you leave out part of the definition or take it from another source makes you more right.
2 [with object] take part in (a sport):
The problem is.. that Blizzard is aiming for the definition I focused on. Diablo 3 is a casual co~op game. It's meant to be played for FUN.
Insult? Where? Haha, are you honestly and seriously offended that I said a few PvM'ers are trash at the game? Just like a few PvP'ers are trash at the game? If you are, grow a pair buddy, are you also sad and got your feelers hurt because we hurt big baddies in Diablo?
Also, what you wish for is unrealistic and kinda offensive. You are saying that people like me should change for you, because you are so great and wise! Why don't you change for me?
Also, what are you going to report me for? If you play bad and I feel the urge to let you know, I say "Hey, you are bad." Think Blizzard is gonna come rescue you? I don't think so.
Keep posting, Adon.. you really prove my point. I really don't need to state anything more then that.
Haha, you outta material? Ran through your ABC argument to fast?
So because a few of the competitive community are negative, that means they all are. So because a few of the PvM community are total trash at the game, that means they are all, right? Am I doing this right?
Also good luck playing co-op arena when you don't know what the hell you are doing, and your team is yelling at you because you are lost in your PvM setting and lose the match. You might not see it now, give it a few months tops and the "casual" arenas will be plagued with competitive people who will have no problem telling you how they think or feel about you and your play. Then when they do implement private arenas, and they all leave to go do real PvP, you can thank me for catering to a system that takes more negative out of your game then it does bringing it in.
Wow.. twisting my words AND turning it into an insult. Way to give my point very good examples.
As for competitive people existing in the game, sure...it'll happen. When people act like you do here, I'll report them and set them on ignore and be done with it. Endorsing the behavior by giving it a place to fester on its own, doesn't fix the issue. Fixing the issue would be people like you actually finding a way that you can react to the average player without turning everything into a competition. I'm not sure if that is possible... but I'd like to hope so.
Insult? Where? Haha, are you honestly and seriously offended that I said a few PvM'ers are trash at the game? Just like a few PvP'ers are trash at the game? If you are, grow a pair buddy, are you also sad and got your feelers hurt because we hurt big baddies in Diablo?
Also, what you wish for is unrealistic and kinda offensive. You are saying that people like me should change for you, because you are so great and wise! Why don't you change for me?
Also, what are you going to report me for? If you play bad and I feel the urge to let you know, I say "Hey, you are bad." Think Blizzard is gonna come rescue you? I don't think so.
Just because playing a game is your work doesn't mean you don't play. Just like football players are working they still play thats just you deciding that playing only means having fun.
play /plā/
Verb: Engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.
So, let me get this straight. According to you a system that:
Allows for skill testing and general goofing off with friends is a horrible idea and is not wanted by the majority
Allows for people who want to arrange their own individual ladders is a negative idea and somehow corrupts your game that you arn't involved in
Is that what I am reading here? You really think that private arenas are going to ruin Diablo haha. I love it.
Way to take my statement out of context yet again. I have stated already that I'm not against private PvP Arena's. If I felt that they would 'ruin' Diablo, I don't think I would have stated that I am alright with them.
The majority of players would not likely use the private Arena system as much as you think. The game focuses on co~op play. Even the PvP focuses primarily on team play (what's that? co~op?). Blizzard is focusing on an experience where you play WITH your friends and not against them.
What you're reading here is that a majority (and seemingly Blizzard) actually feel like spending the resources to develop a system that would encourage competitive play would be counter~productive. Especially when that competitive community is a negative one.
So because a few of the competitive community are negative, that means they all are. So because a few of the PvM community are total trash at the game, that means they are all, right? Am I doing this right?
Also good luck playing co-op arena when you don't know what the hell you are doing, and your team is yelling at you because you are lost in your PvM setting and lose the match. You might not see it now, give it a few months tops and the "casual" arenas will be plagued with competitive people who will have no problem telling you how they think or feel about you and your play. Then when they do implement private arenas, and they all leave to go do real PvP, you can thank me for catering to a system that takes more negative out of your game then it does bringing it in.
You want a good reason to put it in? It will take me and people like me out of your casual arena. We will be in our own little world minding our own business. This also gives you guys an opportunity to have fun and also hey IDK...maybe invite some friends and do some friendly PvP...then again if you don't see yourself having more then 3 friends on Diablo then you are all alone, sorry. The majority will have more then 3 friends, where do you stand in that crowd? The minority?
I am not ignoring any main issue. This is a main issue. People don't play to lose, it is that simple. The days of playing for fun and goofing off, are long gone. The majority of players play to win and you expect a fair fight. It is not a fair fight if I can't even get a moment to understand my build skills and the other players are jacked up and good to go.
You are expected to lose 50% of battles because of how the Diablo system is, not because of not knowing your skills ha.
Not true at all. Ever play any recent game now adays? It is all about winning, fun takes the back burner. In EVERY game I have played online in the past 5+ years, it always boils down to winning or losing, and people don't like to lose, they especially don't like to lose to unfair circumstances.
You are ignoring the main issue. Blizzard stated that it was even a good reason to NOT implement custom PvP games. The main issue is the negative environment competitive players bring to a casual game. Why add a feature to cater to a negative environment, rather then just not implementing it and removing much of that negativity?
People do play games for fun. I've played many PvP games with friends without any worry about my overall ranking. Sure, you might want to win during a match, but at the end...if you lose, you still had fun. A highly competitive experience isn't needed for the game to be enjoyable. Blizzard knows this and specifically chose to make the PvP system casual.
Honestly, with each post you give more reasons as to why competitive features are negative for the game. You're not really helping persuade others that it'd be a good thing for the game. Definitely not people like myself anyways.
So, let me get this straight. According to you a system that:
Allows for skill testing and general goofing off with friends is a horrible idea and is not wanted by the majority
Allows for people who want to arrange their own individual ladders is a negative idea and somehow corrupts your game that you arn't involved in
Is that what I am reading here? You really think that private arenas are going to ruin Diablo haha. I love it.
No one plays to lose. No one is ok with wasting their time joining a game to see if their build is even viable in that area and get stomped before they can figure anything out. That doesn't look good on Blizzard or Diablo. Players need an area where they can go and practice and play around, the arena even without ratings does not do that. It is still competitive with a goal to win. I think you are drastically blind to just how many people would never touch arena once they have a bad experience, in fact D2 dueling comes to mind. Many here only have 1-2 showcasings with it, and yet they are horridly against it and that had no prize, no consequence, just like arena.
Honestly, Blizzard already stated that you're expected to lose 50% of your Arena matches. So, it sounds like EVERYONE that plays Arena expects to lose some. If they don't expect to lose some they are lying to themselves. In reality, if I wanted to test a build...I'd expect that it might not work and I might lose. Doesn't really matter if I'm playing it in public or private in that case. Just because one team loses and one team wins doesn't make the overall experience highly competitive.
Again, you ignore the main issue at hand. Perhaps if we can look at that issue, we can find some middle ground.
I am not ignoring any main issue. This is a main issue. People don't play to lose, it is that simple. The days of playing for fun and goofing off, are long gone. The majority of players play to win and you expect a fair fight. It is not a fair fight if I can't even get a moment to understand my build skills and the other players are jacked up and good to go.
You are expected to lose 50% of battles because of how the Diablo system is, not because of not knowing your skills ha.
No one plays to lose and no one plays to win. They play to have fun.
Not true at all. Ever play any recent game now adays? It is all about winning, fun takes the back burner. In EVERY game I have played online in the past 5+ years, it always boils down to winning or losing, and people don't like to lose, they especially don't like to lose to unfair circumstances.
Not twisting your words, judging by how you speak of the consequences of customization in arenas it sounds like you fear that minority and what they are apparently capable of.
Also, how do you expect to test skills or anything else out if you don't have private arenas ha? Just gonna fly in the arena and get bodied by an organized team when you are still trying to figure out skills layouts. Private arenas are pretty much guaranteed on this fact alone, along with that we will have the option to swap teams after matches are over, which solves every problem I got beside the oddball of 1v4, ect. But I can live without that for the moment.
What would I have to be 'afraid' of? This only cements the negative environment that those like yourself create. I explain a logical reason for not implementing something and you jump to 'you must be afraid'. Here I am attempting to try and find a middle ground that would assist handling the issues Blizzard has for what you want and you still react childish. How can you expect people side with you when you act like this?
How do you test skills? You play a public game. There are no rankings, so losing doesn't matter. Its a casual Arena system that encourages people to just play it and not worry if they lose. There is no reason to NEED private PvP games for the most of us. The only group that NEEDS private PvP games to do what they want is the competitive crowd. The rest of us will be pretty happy with public.
No one plays to lose. No one is ok with wasting their time joining a game to see if their build is even viable in that area and get stomped before they can figure anything out. That doesn't look good on Blizzard or Diablo. Players need an area where they can go and practice and play around, the arena even without ratings does not do that. It is still competitive with a goal to win. I think you are drastically blind to just how many people would never touch arena once they have a bad experience, in fact D2 dueling comes to mind. Many here only have 1-2 showcasings with it, and yet they are horridly against it and that had no prize, no consequence, just like arena.
What I am still hung up on is that we are the so called "minority", a minority that is so small according to you, yet you are fearful of a minority of the minority crying out for esports or balance. I don't really understand it, say you have a million customers, 250,000 of them are competitive, 25,000 of them are crying for esports or balance. So instead of adding a function that everyone can use, the complaints of a small group would ruin it for everyone. Cause Blizzard is horrible at ignoring their customers right?
You're twisting my words. When did I ever say 'fear'? I stated that I understood and sympathized with the reasons Blizzard gave. Most of the competitive players here on this forum have been negative, insulting, aggressive, etc. Since the majority of casual players will likely prefer playing co~op with friends over against them, this feature wouldn't actually be something that is used heavily by the majority (not likely anyways, but all we have is speculation based on information). This means they choose between adding a feature for the minority that is negative, creating a negative environment...or they leave it out and avoid that negative environment all together.
This is why I suggested trying to find a way that competitive people can interact with non~competitive without being poisonous. If we can find a middle ground, perhaps it'd be a good way to sway Blizzard in favor of private PvP games (I still don't support excessive customization options for private PvP games).
Not twisting your words, judging by how you speak of the consequences of customization in arenas it sounds like you fear that minority and what they are apparently capable of.
Also, how do you expect to test skills or anything else out if you don't have private arenas ha? Just gonna fly in the arena and get bodied by an organized team when you are still trying to figure out skills layouts. Private arenas are pretty much guaranteed on this fact alone, along with that we will have the option to swap teams after matches are over, which solves every problem I got beside the oddball of 1v4, ect. But I can live without that for the moment.
Surely more productive then hounding PvP threads with radical complaints about fictional problems. Maybe I will do that.
Radical? I've not been complaining for the most part. Way to take things way out of context. I believe I specifically mentioned here that I am alright with custom games being added. So, where's the complaint? As for the problems, they are hardly fictional. You showcase the issue rather often with your posts alone, Adon.
Those that are of the heavily competitive nature create an environment that the rest of us tend to find poisonous or negative. Perhaps if something can be done to alleviate that, the rest of us would support more competitive~oriented features. Until then, it'll be a hard sell to the majority of the community as we only see it as harmful...
What I am still hung up on is that we are the so called "minority", a minority that is so small according to you, yet you are fearful of a minority of the minority crying out for esports or balance. I don't really understand it, say you have a million customers, 250,000 of them are competitive, 25,000 of them are crying for esports or balance. So instead of adding a function that everyone can use, the complaints of a small group would ruin it for everyone. Cause Blizzard is horrible at ignoring their customers right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
"So for me, if a community builds around it similar to the community that built around Diablo II, then I will feel like it’s a success. If that community is vibrant and wars with each other, and with us, and struggles and fights to make the game better, then to me that's worth continuing to work on the game. That’s success." - Jay Wilson, Director of Diablo 3
Ecut sits there and criticizes the Diablo 2 community and how bad they were and how they arn't welcomed in D3. Yet Jay Wilson, his idol is basing the games success on if Diablo 3's community can match up to Diablo 2's. Even uses such words as "community is vibrant and wars with each other, and with us, and struggles and fights to make the game better". You don't get that kind of a community if Blizzard holds everyones hands and doesn't give us the ability to craft it ourselves. You don't get that in "casual" arena where losses and wins apparently mean nothing to the mass majority. You don't get that in a predominantly PvM game.
I guess ill reword it now that I look back at it.
I play to win, winning is fun to me. Losing is only fun to me if it was a fair fight and I learned something that can help me fix my short commings and help me win, otherwise it is not fun. I don't play to be put in unfair situations and lose. I feel and have seen that this mentality is supported by the majority of players I have played/met.
For a pro gamer tie in, winning is fun for them, they get paid. If they lost, they find out why and how and better their odds next time. If they lose for no apparent reason or because it was an unfair fight, then it is definitely not fun.
Now, as far as funding if it was to happen. The community could definitely fund it. Street fighter didn't start off or continue because Capcom or vendors supported or sponsored it. It takes a ton of hard work from the community and the payouts will be very low for a long time, it would need years to gain steam and become a real deal. Which again, odds are won't happen.
Also I am not ignoring any post, I can't respond to every post in the thread or ill have a page alone in just 1 reply. I pick what I can talk about most intelligently and comment back on that, just so happened that I wasn't involved or concerned with what him and you were talking about.
Also, what you wish for is unrealistic and kinda offensive. You are saying that people like me should change for you, because you are so great and wise! Why don't you change for me?
Also, what are you going to report me for? If you play bad and I feel the urge to let you know, I say "Hey, you are bad." Think Blizzard is gonna come rescue you? I don't think so.
So because a few of the competitive community are negative, that means they all are. So because a few of the PvM community are total trash at the game, that means they are all, right? Am I doing this right?
Also good luck playing co-op arena when you don't know what the hell you are doing, and your team is yelling at you because you are lost in your PvM setting and lose the match. You might not see it now, give it a few months tops and the "casual" arenas will be plagued with competitive people who will have no problem telling you how they think or feel about you and your play. Then when they do implement private arenas, and they all leave to go do real PvP, you can thank me for catering to a system that takes more negative out of your game then it does bringing it in.
You want a good reason to put it in? It will take me and people like me out of your casual arena. We will be in our own little world minding our own business. This also gives you guys an opportunity to have fun and also hey IDK...maybe invite some friends and do some friendly PvP...then again if you don't see yourself having more then 3 friends on Diablo then you are all alone, sorry. The majority will have more then 3 friends, where do you stand in that crowd? The minority?
You are expected to lose 50% of battles because of how the Diablo system is, not because of not knowing your skills ha.
Not true at all. Ever play any recent game now adays? It is all about winning, fun takes the back burner. In EVERY game I have played online in the past 5+ years, it always boils down to winning or losing, and people don't like to lose, they especially don't like to lose to unfair circumstances.
Also, how do you expect to test skills or anything else out if you don't have private arenas ha? Just gonna fly in the arena and get bodied by an organized team when you are still trying to figure out skills layouts. Private arenas are pretty much guaranteed on this fact alone, along with that we will have the option to swap teams after matches are over, which solves every problem I got beside the oddball of 1v4, ect. But I can live without that for the moment.