DiabloFans

Well Jay stated that we won't see DOTA mode in d3 cause it's not made for d3 (jungling for what? going to base to buy what if we already have gear?) etc etc..

Obviously you would alter the format to support the game.. common sense please.

I think the stigma of WoW arena has corrupted the perception of PvP for this entire genre (gear based rpg's). It's obvious that small scale PvP (1 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 3) will ALWAYS be inherently imbalanced because of the very nature of the game. Competition is not synonymous with PvP. There are multiple game modes that I have listed that do not directly pit players against each other, although in essence you would be competing against another team in other ways (i.e. who can last longer vs. hordes of monsters - horde mode, who can complete content faster - content racing, etc.)

What can be done about this? As has been stated MANY times, putting emphasis on OBJECTIVES and creating more dynamics in the competitive game field will help to alleviate the inevitable imbalances, and allow for more creative and interesting gameplay.. not to mention be fun AS HELL. Putting design issues aside, just imagine how incredible playing a DoTA game with your Diablo 3 character would be. Put aside whatever prejudice your have against PvP or competition or whatever. It would just be massively fun, period, and "game modes" (my term) like this have INFINITE REPLAYABILITY. Whereas, amazing or not, the story line in Diablo 3 will eventually end and the average player will become bored with the game. Game modes work synergistically with the PvM side of Diablo 3 by encouraging even MORE FARMING, MORE TRADING, ETC. to encourage people to obtain loot to use in these game modes and be more successful.

That's how I see it at least. I sincerely hope Diablo 3 PvP (or competition) IS NOT RELEGATED TO ARENAS. This may be fun for a while. but with no incentive to encourage competition there is simply no substance in the system.

Crushing players in arenas gets old FAST. What we need are TEAM ORIENTED OBJECTIVE BASED PVP SCENARIOS. That's where the real shit is.

Arena will never work in this genre because it's very core is based on obtaining an imbalanced advantage (be it through team composition, gear, build).

The way I see it is that in order to have a competitive environment, the play field wants to be equal, or as equal as you can make it.

Apparently this is not worth my time. Idiots can't even read what I've posted multiple times.

Did you read my post on game modes?

There's various ways to implement competition into Diablo 3 without necessitating razor edge e-sports balance. If you bothered to read my thoughts on the subject you wouldn't be asking me these questions.

note: arena is NOT the epitome of competition. It's another result of lazy development lacking creativity that will simply NEVER WORK PERFECTLY IN A GEAR BASED RPG. IT IS FUTILE TO STRIVE FOR PERFECT BALANCE IN THIS GENRE.

Arena almost necessitates extreme balance. What should be done is a directed focus on objective based competition modes, coined GAME MODES by myself, that would NOT be heavy in design requirements. I.e. HORDE MODE - fending off hordes of monsters against an opposing team. Monsters are already developed, simply create a format and difficulty scaling and u have this game mode. This modes are somewhat inherently balanced because of the addition of objectives that require more than maximizing DPS or Survivability. LOGISTICS COMES INTO PLAY. It opens up an entirely new format for competition. Arena deathmatch has been beat to shit by WoW, and we've seen the results. Please GIVE US SOMETHING REVOLUTIONARY. YOU'RE BLIZZARD.

Obviously I'm oversimplifying the design process, but I have faith in a company that has designed so many amazing games in the past. These type of game modes would add massive replayability and satisfy the craving that many have for competition in Diablo 3.

Preaching to the choir? Please tell me you're kidding. I haven't read a single post of someone encouraging a synergistic pvm and competition (pvp and pvm potentially) system other than myself, although there have been few who have agreed with my sentiments. It's as if it's a revolutionary idea that a game doesn't necessarily have to tear itself apart at both ends. Don't take that as hubris either, because I really don't give a shit. It's just the truth.

It's funny because you just used my so called straw man argument to create a straw man argument.

The simple quote "no is saying that PvP will be neglected." (I think you meant "no one") shows your ignorance toward the general mindset of a vast amount of players that see pvp as a threat to pvm. I absolutely agree that pvp SHOULD take a secondary role to PvM, but there is so much ambiguity in that statement. There's literally infinite amount of room for design since the PvM game is now FINISHED and PvP is still very very infantile. Look at the first 5 posts in the PvP forum and you'll see people crying about PvP stepping on PvM. Completely illogical sentiment but it's there, and I'm just fucking sick of hearing it.

The word COMPETITIVE is vague in DETAIL, but not in meaning. Many PvMers who say they don't care about PvP in any way in the same breath interject that PvP should not have any sort of balance or ranking. WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT THEN? Some people enjoy competition, i.e. having a significant REASON or GOAL to strive for (NOT FUCKING ACHIEVEMENTS PLEASE WHAT A JOKE). IF YOU DON'T THEN DON'T FUCKING PARTICIPATE. GO PLAY PVM. I WILL BE ENJOYING BOTH.


Competition doesn't HAVE to be PvP centered, either. If this shit was done right there would be some wonderful competitive flavor for every gaming type. You people need to look ahead. Yes this game WILL BE AMAZING, but what will add SYNERGISTIC LONGEVITY to it? Well I'll give you some examples:

Content racing - Teams race through content to see who can finish first. For the PvM centered competitionist! See who can finish that boss off the quickest, who can escort that NPC faster, or who can clear an event most efficiently!
Great for making a name for your Clan or group of friends!
4. Horde Mode - Team compete to see who can hold off hoards of monsters for longer. A beautiful mix of competition and monster slaying fitting the Diablo theme perfectly!

Not having to maintain 2 full sets of skills for ALL classes. (ie. unlikely to have new skills just for PvP)
- Jay has already confirmed they can change the way individual skills work in PvP vs PvM, but that's different from having to maintain 2 separate sets of skills.

What do you mean by "maintain 2 full set of skills"? Are you saying that players shouldn't have to develop builds specifically suited for pvp and pve? If so, that's probably the most ignorant and illogical expectation I've ever read, and I've ready a lot of idiotic stuff. If you expect the best pve builds to automatically somehow be the most efficient pvp builds by some act of brilliant design you're delusional. That is simply the nature of 2 separate aspects of the game, YOU'LL HAVE TO ADAPT DEPENDING ON YOUR OPPPONENT. SHOCKER I KNOW!!!

Point 1 and 2 are completely valid and acceptable.

Jay has (way more recently) said that PvP will always take the backseat to PvM in Diablo III. They are not making a PvP game. It's first and far foremost a PvM game.

No one is arguing that point. You're taking an extremist stance by equating putting PvM first necessitates completely neglecting PvP.

THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE CASE. MAKE THE DAMN GAME THE BEST IT CAN BE. For fucks fucking sake.

You need to use your eyes. Competitive PvP is specifically mentioned in both sources.

If one more person lumps e sports with competitive pvp I'm going to shit a damn elephant. Association fallacy at it's finest.

We definitely want there to be a PvP mode for PvP players, and we would like that mode to be a really serious, skill-based, very strong [aspect of the game]. I feel that on the side of all our games, we really try to make PvP games that cater to a competitive player, first and foremost. We don't try to dumb down or tone down our PvP games. We make [them] good, strong competitive games. StarCraft is one of the best examples. But in terms of what our actual plans are for Diablo III, we don't have anything to specifically announce right now, mostly because we're still messing around with a bunch of different ideas.

http://pc.gamespy.co...i/901260p3.html


Direct quote from Jay Wilson.

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=J-zZRhgnnRM

Interview on front page in support of a solid COMPETITIVE PvP system. Devs even say how excited they are to participate.

This should make everyone shut the fuck up about PvP not having a basis in Diablo 3.