The title of this thread does not reflect how much attention or features Blizz is giving to Diablo pvp. It was referring to a lot of the hate posts on the pvp aspect of the game which I can't understand and doubt you would be able to justify. So from the whines and hates on pvp that really have no good reason to be there in the first place (yes I understand everyone is entitled to their opinions but that doesn't mean Westboro Church's ignorance have constructive validity), I would say pvp should get more love. Meaning more appreciation from pve fans.
To which I'll have to say perspective is lacking. I've read a lot of the posts in this forum the vast majority of the whines and hate seem to be coming from the PvP side of things actually. Comments about people being butthurt, nut huggers, and carebears, of being scared, or that this group is the sole cause of the other group's problems, etc. Those have been things that people proudly stating they're pvp have thrown at more pve types that have questioned or discussed the validity of the PvP statements. In truth many of the so called pve have stated looking forward to the pvp content. They've shown support for the current design Blizzard has proposed or even agreed with some of the extra ideas like clans, etc. that PvP has brought up.
The only statement that has come up on the PvE side in general that might not be friendly is "Well if you don't like the game then don't play it?" This isn't meant in a mean spirited nature it is just a fact. If you aren't going to have fun no one is forcing you to play. That doesn't mean the game is flawed or that there is someone to blame for this.
I appreciate pvp in a game, even one like Diablo that is more pve focused. As for giving pvpers more love as a whole. No. I can respect your right to your opinion, but I don't have to like or love it.
You bring up a couple of interesting points. But I would like to counter your first argument with that pvers get just as much hate if not more hate with the fact that pvers are currently in a good situation right now with WoW and D3 focusing on pve. This goes back to one of my previous points with that PvEers have very very very little reason to complain about pvp. On a side note pvpers have a lot of resentment for pve partially because good pve gear is VERY viable in high-level pvp, where as good pvp gear is crap for high level pve (this is of course in reference to WoW).
Your second statement gave me something to think about, but I stand by my view that those statements, as mild as they may seem, are just as infuriating as direct-hateful statements. Look, as I have said, the pvers already have Blizz focusing on pve. Why should they cry Bloody-murder? PvPers know this and I don't want to sound emo or anything (I just want to make a point) but sometimes negligence is far more damaging than negative effects.
You've lost all your credibility right here.
I played exclusively HC from release of Classic D2 until a year or two after the 1.10 patch (and PvP'd quite a bit myself too) and HC was plagued with dupes, hacks, maphacks and botting.
There is still a famous list of duped rings/lances/amuletts from classic(hc) on the net which I could find for you if needed. Then there was the gamble sniffer, which told you which items are going to be uniques (still in classic). There have been massive amounts of SoJ's been gambled this way.
Druid shapeshifting with a too high skill level game crashing in HC? I remember that and I remember the patched Diablo2.exe the druids used so their game didnt crash.
Ith swords/armors/helms in HC, massive amounts of those I have seen.
I could keep on going, but the point is, HC never was free of hacking and if you believe so ....
Um are you making stuff up? Because I'm pretty sure HC was not "Plagued" with duped items. I'm not saying there wasn't any at all but you definitely have to go out of your way to find the dupers. Softcore mode on the otherhand you can find them ever 2 seconds in trade channel. At any rate the elite players of HC generally don't use duped items. I can't confirm that for sure but it was a tight knit community and evreyone had great sportsmenship. (well almost everyone)
Lol no, HC players DID use duped items, and the market for HC duped items off of third party websites was pretty damn big. Possibly you and a couple friends never did it, but the community did, and just like Xezz said, if you believe otherwise you're just lying to yourself.
You're right in there being 3rd part sites that sell duped items which is why I said there are still duped items to buy if you look for them (because reading is hard). But no, the top pvpers generally don't use duped items, if you think they do then you were not involved with what I'm talking about. It is fairly easy to know what someone is wearing, although it takes some time to sort it out.
Actually, one of the key words in the statement PvP needs more love is MORE. It is a fact that PvP gets some love, but many fans want it to get more.
They are getting love, quantifying it as not enough implies you are currently aware how how much love those fans are getting. Till it comes out it is mere speculation that it won't be enough.
I have never stated that this game has to be a PvP to survive
That was more off to the original post of this thread than your personal stance.
I can say now that while you talk about polls and researches you are probably not an economist, since you believe that any (I will be surprised if there is even one) research from the past decade will support the thesis that PvE game will earn more money (which I believe is the primary target of Blizzard) than a PvP game. The people and the market changed drastically from what they were 10 years ago. Why do you think WOW became what it is now, because of the amazing PvE (which was the focus at the launch) or because of its PvP?
You are correct I'm not an economist. Though frankly I doubt you're one either. Since a game's success is based upon more than its genre or style of play. There are multiple factors and strangely that would be something an economist would understand.
WoW is not a winning formula because of PvP or PvE. It's a combination as well as Blizzard trying to innovate and keep their fans while keeping it open enough for new ones. If we can agree on that then maybe we're somewhere on the same page after all. If you claim that WoW is kept solely or largely alive on the PvP factor then I'm sorry I can't agree with you.
OK this is from me. I know that the PvE is end will be really important part of the game, but I do not understand why PvP and PvE cannot coexist together, I do not believe that once they have the basis small balancing patches will take so much time and resourses
Frankly I haven't said they can't coexist in some form. The thing that rankles me is statements that what will be done currently isn't nearly enough without even trying it. Is it sad that it's coming out in a patch yes, but then their reason was that it wasn't good enough to them. Apparently not wanting to put out a rush/broken job in favor of a delay to make something fitting of putting your name behind isn't appreciated or considered loving enough.
The title of this thread does not reflect how much attention or features Blizz is giving to Diablo pvp. It was referring to a lot of the hate posts on the pvp aspect of the game which I can't understand and doubt you would be able to justify. So from the whines and hates on pvp that really have no good reason to be there in the first place (yes I understand everyone is entitled to their opinions but that doesn't mean Westboro Church's ignorance have constructive validity), I would say pvp should get more love. Meaning more appreciation from pve fans.
I am also not an economist, although I may as well be one with the current career that I have. All I know is that vanilla ended with 6-7 million players with hardly any media coverage. The gamers loved the game, but they kept their excitement in the dark.
When BC game out along with arena, all of a sudden you got news coverage, hyper success of Blizzcon where tickets were sold in 10 minutes. Every top arena team were household names. Southpark parodies, Blizzard Corporation itself was growing the most rapidly at this point. BC ended with 10-11 million subscribers.
When WotLK came out, many players argued that the pvp is broken. The arena scene at blizzcon was not as loud. The end of WotLK had 11 million players.
When Cata came out the numbers went up to 12 million, but then fell back down to 10 million. The pvp state got worse. In fact there was a period of 7 months where there were almost no class balance adjustments in patches.
Now I understand there are various factors that play into the number of subscriptions and their respective era, but from my point of view as a person who LOVES WoW and would always play it if the pvp balancing was more organic, I see that pvp plays a big role in maintaining subscription. Esport itself is not necessary to keep subscriptions. But I believe Esport forces Blizz to care enough to maintain a standard. If D2 was an Esport, do you think there will be as many duped items as there were?
You've lost all your credibility right here.
I played exclusively HC from release of Classic D2 until a year or two after the 1.10 patch (and PvP'd quite a bit myself too) and HC was plagued with dupes, hacks, maphacks and botting.
There is still a famous list of duped rings/lances/amuletts from classic(hc) on the net which I could find for you if needed. Then there was the gamble sniffer, which told you which items are going to be uniques (still in classic). There have been massive amounts of SoJ's been gambled this way.
Druid shapeshifting with a too high skill level game crashing in HC? I remember that and I remember the patched Diablo2.exe the druids used so their game didnt crash.
Ith swords/armors/helms in HC, massive amounts of those I have seen.
I could keep on going, but the point is, HC never was free of hacking and if you believe so ....
Um are you making stuff up? Because I'm pretty sure HC was not "Plagued" with duped items. I'm not saying there wasn't any at all but you definitely have to go out of your way to find the dupers. Softcore mode on the otherhand you can find them ever 2 seconds in trade channel. At any rate the elite players of HC generally don't use duped items. I can't confirm that for sure but it was a tight knit community and evreyone had great sportsmenship. (well almost everyone)
So D3 pvp'ers gets an entire arena where they can jump around and spank each others ass' .. aint that love enough? .. I mean, if you like pvp, then go play pvp, if you don't like it, stay away, simple.. As for balance on pvp vs pve, the reason they added the arena was so they could balance/change skills in PvP without hurting/nerfing a skill in PvE .. So all in all, good for both sides..
Main focus is on PvE, yet they still do stuff for the PvP people, so I don't really see what the problem is..
If you want a game where pvp is the main focus then play one of those hundreds of games where pvp and esport is the main focus, OR make your own league with a certain set of rules and see if YOU (you as anybody ;p no one specific) can make it into an esport .. People did it with CS with modding, they did it with quake, tribes, CoD and many others ... These games started turning into Esport material coz the comunity started a league with prices etc ..
I never said the current pvp features in d3 was inadequate. In fact if you read some of my other posts, I was even satisfied with d2 pvp (I know, it's so hard to read). I wanted to know why PvEers hate PvP and subsequently I would make arguments on why pvp should get the love. Hence the title of the thread.
There's about 4-5 posts above me that clearly do not understand what I'm trying to say and should maybe read it out loud so that it would be easier to you all.
1. I'm trying to say that PvP should have a big focus, maybe not the majority of the focuz, but at least big enough so that it can reach mainstream gaming community for it's PvP. The reason is (and this is where you dyslexics don't understand) D3 will be one of those games where it's only able to survive because of expansions kind of like how WoW right now. Yes I understand WoW still has many subscribers, but it is trending down and that means a loss in growth for Blizz. So on to #2.
2. Blizz has recently canned 10-15% of its employees. Why are they not doing well with the release of Heart of the Swarm, Mist of Pandaria, and D3 on the horizon? Answer is simply because subscriptions don't cut it. On top of that WoW is the only power revenue that Blizzard is generating...meaning sustainable revenue. All other games including D3 are a one-time-buy. So where was Blizzard's glory days where it employed 500 employees a year? It was when BC was out and PvP in WoW was at it's prime ALONGSIDE the Starcraft scene. So if you're good at reading and you've gotten this far, you'll conclude that Blizz needs to emulate that golden age.
3. So even though 95% of the players don't know about true pvp in d2, many of them will get pulled in if the pvp scene is made attractive, kind of like what happened in the aforementioned glory days.
4. D2 pvp was fine and it was enjoyable, never said it wasn't. I was just saying that there was another side that was more competitive that most people didn't know about.
1: NO JUST NO!!! Read my post above but to sum up. A game can end... It doesn't NEED to live on forever through a needless extension such as competitive PvP. PvP can be a fun time waster but more PvE content will be what keeps people coming back.
2: Blizz cut jobs because of the reduced demand and focus on WoW. It's simple. They don't need all of those game mods and devs sitting around now as they are slowly moving away from WoW; financially Blizz are fine and to think any different is just insane.
3: You answered your own question... 95%; why the hell should blizz worry about 5% of the fanbase that want competitive PvP when the sheer majority of the player base is just not interested? Want to know why WoW raids have gotten easier? Because they WANT people to see all of the content they make.
4: No there wasn't and this proves you weren't really there. D2 PvP was mostly a Gank-fest with a fairly honest duel every now again. Let's not forgot no potion HC duels where both players continually used them... GG guys, way to play fair.
Stop trying to imprint something onto D3 which it isn't supposed to be.
1-3. Read my post(s) again but with critical thinking. And the last bit in #3 where you said "Blizz wants people to see all the content they make," would make a good argument if Blizz was the middle man only responsible for selling and distributing. But because Blizz is the one who created the content, they can make pve as much or as little as possible. You and a horde of others seem to have this misconception that having more focus on PvP takes it out on PvE content. Blizz is the creator of the game. Why can't I beg them to have both facets in the spotlight? Why are you trying to keep pvp in the dark? Yes pvp balance does affect pve because of skill/item adjustments. But Blizz is the creator. If they make a barbarian's attack 2 times stronger for pvp balance, they can make pve harder for barbs if they want. How does it really affect PvERs?
4. Matter of opinion. To me any pvp in d2 was a huge plus. In my past posts I was merely educating the other people that if they think softcore dueling/ganking was the only pvp going on, then they are mistaken.
note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying
And if you liked it you were a newfag who never played pre/or cs 1.3...? it all depends on the individual opinion.
For me Diablo II LoD was all about trading with foreign people, the PvE aspect was just a accessory and PvP didn't bother me at all.
There's about 4-5 posts above me that clearly do not understand what I'm trying to say and should maybe read it out loud so that it would be easier to you all.
1. I'm trying to say that PvP should have a big focus, maybe not the majority of the focuz, but at least big enough so that it can reach mainstream gaming community for it's PvP. The reason is (and this is where you dyslexics don't understand) D3 will be one of those games where it's only able to survive because of expansions kind of like how WoW right now. Yes I understand WoW still has many subscribers, but it is trending down and that means a loss in growth for Blizz. So on to #2.
2. Blizz has recently canned 10-15% of its employees. Why are they not doing well with the release of Heart of the Swarm, Mist of Pandaria, and D3 on the horizon? Answer is simply because subscriptions don't cut it. On top of that WoW is the only power revenue that Blizzard is generating...meaning sustainable revenue. All other games including D3 are a one-time-buy. So where was Blizzard's glory days where it employed 500 employees a year? It was when BC was out and PvP in WoW was at it's prime ALONGSIDE the Starcraft scene. So if you're good at reading and you've gotten this far, you'll conclude that Blizz needs to emulate that golden age.
3. So even though 95% of the players don't know about true pvp in d2, many of them will get pulled in if the pvp scene is made attractive, kind of like what happened in the aforementioned glory days.
4. D2 pvp was fine and it was enjoyable, never said it wasn't. I was just saying that there was another side that was more competitive that most people didn't know about.
To all the players of Diablo who say "Diablo has always been about the pve" - You don't know squat. It's true. Just because you're in your isolated Diablo 2 LOD private games farming meph/baal/pindle all day long doesn't make it a pve game...it just makes you ignorant for thinking that. When I played diablo 2, I played hardcore mode. Yes I grinded gear, but I grinded gear so that I can have duels IN HARDCORE MODE. I'm not making that statement because I'm saying "LOL I"M BETTER THAN YOU". I'm saying that because there was a dimension to the game that 95% of the players don't know about (most are scared to try hc...seriously)
When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.
note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying
I don't think anyone here is saying that PvP didn't exist in Diablo. What they are saying is that PvP has never been an official focus for any of the Diablo games. The Diablo series is not about gearing up to kill people in competitive PvP. Some might play Diablo for it, but they are doing so unsupported. Diablo 3 has always been a single player game, that you can play with others. The whole point of every Diablo game is to destroy the minions of hell to save the world. Expecting otherwise is just silly.
PvP will exist in a more supported way then it has ever existed in previous Diablo games. It isn't however going to be the driving focus of the game. No, the focus of Diablo 3 is and will still be playing a single player ARPG with or without other people. I for one am glad that this is the case as that's what I want out of Diablo 3. I want an awesome story that I can play through multiple times and still enjoy it. I want possible content updates that let me get new quests and dungeons as the years progress. I don't really want a PvP dominated game were PvP balanced ends up dictating how abilities/items can work for fear of unbalancing PvP. This.. is what Diablo is.. and this is what you're buying. If you don't like that, perhaps you shouldn't purchase it.
I didn't say PvP was non-existent either lol. What I'm sayin is that there are people here who claim that pvpers are a minority (which is true) BUT because of that, most of the content should get more pve love...which I don't agree with. Where pvpers lack in numbers, their passion more than makes up for that. If it's money blizzard is worried about then they should really invest in bigger scenes or else they will just be another video game company releasing 1-2 games a year.
you can go play League of Legends if you want some love for pvp
Good joke. Made my day.
ot: People don't hate on PvP, they just want to get the game faster. Tell me how many people would pvp from day 1 when the game is released? I doubt there will be anyone since you first have to level and gear a character in order to enter arena.
I'm not arguing against the early open release and I'm totally all for the fact that pvp has to be postposed in order for D3 to be released on time. Look at the time of the release date announcement and look at the time of posting for the original post. Critical thinking is hard.
To all the players of Diablo who say "Diablo has always been about the pve" - You don't know squat. It's true. Just because you're in your isolated Diablo 2 LOD private games farming meph/baal/pindle all day long doesn't make it a pve game...it just makes you ignorant for thinking that. When I played diablo 2, I played hardcore mode. Yes I grinded gear, but I grinded gear so that I can have duels IN HARDCORE MODE. I'm not making that statement because I'm saying "LOL I"M BETTER THAN YOU". I'm saying that because there was a dimension to the game that 95% of the players don't know about (most are scared to try hc...seriously)
When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.
note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying
World of Warcraft arena in paticular has been excluded from multiple esports, for example MLG, events due to it's high unbalancedness (+ several details, such as no spectator mode). Perhaps with less classes and lot less class-flavorness in D3 we will have a stable balanced arena.
Ok who am I kidding, it's gonna be unbalanced as fuck.
and it should be.
As polls and these and other forums have proven ... in the eye of the mainstream diablo fan ...
PvE > PVP
I really don't want to turn this into a pve vs. pvp debate because I know you're not going to listen to what I have to say and I also know you don't have anything infallible/circumstantial that will change my mind about pve.
World of Warcraft arena in paticular has been excluded from multiple esports, for example MLG, events due to it's high unbalancedness (+ several details, such as no spectator mode). Perhaps with less classes and lot less class-flavorness in D3 we will have a stable balanced arena.
Ok who am I kidding, it's gonna be unbalanced as fuck.
I completely agree that WoW is and was unbalanced. But there was a time where it was close to being balanced and at that time new balancing changes were implemented in every patch, big or small. Nowadays I barely see a PvP change in an entire patch.
And yes you're right that d3 is most likely going to be unbalanced, but if Blizz cares enough to try to balance it like in TBC of WoW, then the fans will care.
To be honest I don't understand why people hate on pvp so much. Too hard to play against players as opposed to AI? I've heard countless arguments from both sides and to be honest I believe that in the end competitive PvP (esports) is what's going to allow a game to thrive.
For example. When The Burning Crusade for WoW came out, the arena following was HUGE. A lot of general pvp demographic knew the top players and the top teams by name. In the Blizzcon 2008 tournaments there was just as many people watching the 3v3 arena matches as there are people watching the Starcraft/WC3 matches. So what about Blizzcon 2011? You guessed it, small turn-out indeed. WoW still has a tremendous amount of players. But the players are just zombies in that game now. Sure there are die hard PvE guilds with die hard PvE players who only log on during raid hours, but come on, there's a reason why the game is slowly dying despite the creative innovations implemented in the PvE encounters.... BECAUSE THERE IS NO HYPE. There is no venue platform where die hard fans are screaming at the top of their lungs, chanting for their team. PvE brings excitement to an individual, not as a group.
So I ask, please don't turn D3 into a game that's only surviving because of numerous expansions. And please let it survive because of the passion that the players have for the game.
TL;DR: PvP eSports is the way to go; just as watching an NFL game is better than watching people playing Madden against AI's.
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You bring up a couple of interesting points. But I would like to counter your first argument with that pvers get just as much hate if not more hate with the fact that pvers are currently in a good situation right now with WoW and D3 focusing on pve. This goes back to one of my previous points with that PvEers have very very very little reason to complain about pvp. On a side note pvpers have a lot of resentment for pve partially because good pve gear is VERY viable in high-level pvp, where as good pvp gear is crap for high level pve (this is of course in reference to WoW).
Your second statement gave me something to think about, but I stand by my view that those statements, as mild as they may seem, are just as infuriating as direct-hateful statements. Look, as I have said, the pvers already have Blizz focusing on pve. Why should they cry Bloody-murder? PvPers know this and I don't want to sound emo or anything (I just want to make a point) but sometimes negligence is far more damaging than negative effects.
You're right in there being 3rd part sites that sell duped items which is why I said there are still duped items to buy if you look for them (because reading is hard). But no, the top pvpers generally don't use duped items, if you think they do then you were not involved with what I'm talking about. It is fairly easy to know what someone is wearing, although it takes some time to sort it out.
The title of this thread does not reflect how much attention or features Blizz is giving to Diablo pvp. It was referring to a lot of the hate posts on the pvp aspect of the game which I can't understand and doubt you would be able to justify. So from the whines and hates on pvp that really have no good reason to be there in the first place (yes I understand everyone is entitled to their opinions but that doesn't mean Westboro Church's ignorance have constructive validity), I would say pvp should get more love. Meaning more appreciation from pve fans.
I am also not an economist, although I may as well be one with the current career that I have. All I know is that vanilla ended with 6-7 million players with hardly any media coverage. The gamers loved the game, but they kept their excitement in the dark.
When BC game out along with arena, all of a sudden you got news coverage, hyper success of Blizzcon where tickets were sold in 10 minutes. Every top arena team were household names. Southpark parodies, Blizzard Corporation itself was growing the most rapidly at this point. BC ended with 10-11 million subscribers.
When WotLK came out, many players argued that the pvp is broken. The arena scene at blizzcon was not as loud. The end of WotLK had 11 million players.
When Cata came out the numbers went up to 12 million, but then fell back down to 10 million. The pvp state got worse. In fact there was a period of 7 months where there were almost no class balance adjustments in patches.
Now I understand there are various factors that play into the number of subscriptions and their respective era, but from my point of view as a person who LOVES WoW and would always play it if the pvp balancing was more organic, I see that pvp plays a big role in maintaining subscription. Esport itself is not necessary to keep subscriptions. But I believe Esport forces Blizz to care enough to maintain a standard. If D2 was an Esport, do you think there will be as many duped items as there were?
Um are you making stuff up? Because I'm pretty sure HC was not "Plagued" with duped items. I'm not saying there wasn't any at all but you definitely have to go out of your way to find the dupers. Softcore mode on the otherhand you can find them ever 2 seconds in trade channel. At any rate the elite players of HC generally don't use duped items. I can't confirm that for sure but it was a tight knit community and evreyone had great sportsmenship. (well almost everyone)
I never said the current pvp features in d3 was inadequate. In fact if you read some of my other posts, I was even satisfied with d2 pvp (I know, it's so hard to read). I wanted to know why PvEers hate PvP and subsequently I would make arguments on why pvp should get the love. Hence the title of the thread.
Why not try something constructive instead of being a smart a**? : ) Here let me hold your hand.
My name is _______ and I think pvp is/should _________________.
-Harleq
1-3. Read my post(s) again but with critical thinking. And the last bit in #3 where you said "Blizz wants people to see all the content they make," would make a good argument if Blizz was the middle man only responsible for selling and distributing. But because Blizz is the one who created the content, they can make pve as much or as little as possible. You and a horde of others seem to have this misconception that having more focus on PvP takes it out on PvE content. Blizz is the creator of the game. Why can't I beg them to have both facets in the spotlight? Why are you trying to keep pvp in the dark? Yes pvp balance does affect pve because of skill/item adjustments. But Blizz is the creator. If they make a barbarian's attack 2 times stronger for pvp balance, they can make pve harder for barbs if they want. How does it really affect PvERs?
4. Matter of opinion. To me any pvp in d2 was a huge plus. In my past posts I was merely educating the other people that if they think softcore dueling/ganking was the only pvp going on, then they are mistaken.
Played 1.3... 5 digit steam id. Nice try bro
1. I'm trying to say that PvP should have a big focus, maybe not the majority of the focuz, but at least big enough so that it can reach mainstream gaming community for it's PvP. The reason is (and this is where you dyslexics don't understand) D3 will be one of those games where it's only able to survive because of expansions kind of like how WoW right now. Yes I understand WoW still has many subscribers, but it is trending down and that means a loss in growth for Blizz. So on to #2.
2. Blizz has recently canned 10-15% of its employees. Why are they not doing well with the release of Heart of the Swarm, Mist of Pandaria, and D3 on the horizon? Answer is simply because subscriptions don't cut it. On top of that WoW is the only power revenue that Blizzard is generating...meaning sustainable revenue. All other games including D3 are a one-time-buy. So where was Blizzard's glory days where it employed 500 employees a year? It was when BC was out and PvP in WoW was at it's prime ALONGSIDE the Starcraft scene. So if you're good at reading and you've gotten this far, you'll conclude that Blizz needs to emulate that golden age.
3. So even though 95% of the players don't know about true pvp in d2, many of them will get pulled in if the pvp scene is made attractive, kind of like what happened in the aforementioned glory days.
4. D2 pvp was fine and it was enjoyable, never said it wasn't. I was just saying that there was another side that was more competitive that most people didn't know about.
I didn't say PvP was non-existent either lol. What I'm sayin is that there are people here who claim that pvpers are a minority (which is true) BUT because of that, most of the content should get more pve love...which I don't agree with. Where pvpers lack in numbers, their passion more than makes up for that. If it's money blizzard is worried about then they should really invest in bigger scenes or else they will just be another video game company releasing 1-2 games a year.
I'm not arguing against the early open release and I'm totally all for the fact that pvp has to be postposed in order for D3 to be released on time. Look at the time of the release date announcement and look at the time of posting for the original post. Critical thinking is hard.
When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.
note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying
I really don't want to turn this into a pve vs. pvp debate because I know you're not going to listen to what I have to say and I also know you don't have anything infallible/circumstantial that will change my mind about pve.
I completely agree that WoW is and was unbalanced. But there was a time where it was close to being balanced and at that time new balancing changes were implemented in every patch, big or small. Nowadays I barely see a PvP change in an entire patch.
And yes you're right that d3 is most likely going to be unbalanced, but if Blizz cares enough to try to balance it like in TBC of WoW, then the fans will care.
For example. When The Burning Crusade for WoW came out, the arena following was HUGE. A lot of general pvp demographic knew the top players and the top teams by name. In the Blizzcon 2008 tournaments there was just as many people watching the 3v3 arena matches as there are people watching the Starcraft/WC3 matches. So what about Blizzcon 2011? You guessed it, small turn-out indeed. WoW still has a tremendous amount of players. But the players are just zombies in that game now. Sure there are die hard PvE guilds with die hard PvE players who only log on during raid hours, but come on, there's a reason why the game is slowly dying despite the creative innovations implemented in the PvE encounters.... BECAUSE THERE IS NO HYPE. There is no venue platform where die hard fans are screaming at the top of their lungs, chanting for their team. PvE brings excitement to an individual, not as a group.
So I ask, please don't turn D3 into a game that's only surviving because of numerous expansions. And please let it survive because of the passion that the players have for the game.
TL;DR: PvP eSports is the way to go; just as watching an NFL game is better than watching people playing Madden against AI's.