Diablo hasn't been about pvp for you, but not only carebears like you play this game.
Way to use insults to prove a point. Oh wait...
Sorry, you're very wrong. A vast majority of players did play the game purely to smash monsters. In both D1 & D2 the PvP was an afterthought, tacked on to let people goof off fighting. It did become decently popular in some circles, however, generally those matches consisted of one person going out of town hostile and killing everyone else that came out. It basically creates a situation where unless you were a dick, you generally didn't like the PvP (there was exceptions, of course). Blizzard seeks to change that.
By integrating PvP via an Arena system with matchmaking, Blizzard has made PvP appeal to a wider audience then it appealed to before. In addition to this, by not having hostility they have improved the PvM experience as well. This isn't about taking away PvP or not giving it enough love. Blizzard is giving PvP more love then it EVER got in the previous games, its just not being designed around bullies that want to those less skilled as an ego boost. That is a positive thing, not a negative one.
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
I think I see the full picture pretty well, people want options to play the game how they want to play. However, I also see that Blizzard has taken a stance on the direction for their PvP and that is of a more casual nature. In all honesty, Diablo 3 has a similar game model to WoW in a lot of ways.
PvM is designed around instancing quests. You join an instance to accomplish a quest with a team of up to three other players and have the option to continue on after the quest is complete. It resembles WoW instances in a lot of ways and as such parallels can be used to explain why some features would be detrimental based on experience with WoW.
PvP is designed around getting casual players to join in on PvP. This means you need to be able to make games quick and easily without fussing with a ton of options. It needs to be easy to be picked up without a lot of pressure put on the player to excel. Again I'm able to make parallels to WoW with their PvP system. All PvP in WoW is very easy to jump right into. You don't set any options, you just choose the PvP type and jump in. This creates an environment where everyone can feel comfortable with participating.
Now, all that said... I've actually made suggestions for a private Arena mode that let you invite players and choose an Arena with a mode that allows players to essentially make up their own rules. This would allow people to setup their own matches and PvP how they wanted without impacting the overall design of the game.
It seems the issues comes down to you saying the features must be Public game features. The game just really isn't designed around these kind of features existing at all, much less as part of the Public game. As a private game feature though, I can hardly argue against them as they add options, and don't create confusion or harm to those that don't want to use them.
So, I really don't have issues with options if said options are left to private games. Public games should be kept how they are for the most part, however.
Well, you went against any player controlled options in the arena, you went against any dueling in public games, you ignored fact trading and lore stopping takes more time then dueling, you did a lot more. It is ok though, I forgive you. Koda saved the day.
I went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
No, not at all. I still believe PvP should be an option in both game types, or at the very least a WP to the arena in game. His idea is ok, not the greatest but it is a means to an end.
But, its not his idea.. I've been stating THAT EXACT SAME THING, multiple times in the thread. It seems you either didn't read my posts or ignored my statements due to some predetermined hatred towards me our of some perceived notion that I hate PvP.
Funny thing about that is that I've been the one trying to create compromises between the PvP and PvM communities. I've been suggesting things like a Arena type that allows players to fight without rules, open dueling in private only games, etc. Yet, I'm an enemy of PvP? Sorry, but no. What I am against is forcing PvP on PvM players. Period.
Woah woah woah, im done with you dude. Moving on to bigger better fish. People who make real contributions like Koda over there.
You failed to answer the question. Why is it suddenly a good suggestion when you've been complaining about it for the past few days? Realize you were wrong finally?
Great post. Very insightful and intelligent presentation. Why couldn't anyone else do that? However I still feel it should be an option in both, private at the very least.
So, he repeats my suggestion and it is somehow 'insightful'? No offence to Kodachii of course, but I've stated a few times now that dueling in private games is the way to go. I've also explained why using the same reasoning pretty much. So, I am a little curious if you actually even read my posts.... or.... what?
Enabling duels or hostility in private games (only) may be the *best* solution I've heard so far. You only play with your friends/family in private games so you know what you're getting into and if someone is a douchebag what are they doing on your friend's list in your private game.
Not really. The threads slow down because they are tired of you spewing the same BS every post. Either way, you don't want PvP even MUTUAL PvP in your games, and I don't want a PvM only game with no options. It is still incorrect design and flawed to force me to make 3 games to do what I want to do, you will see. BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?
I really wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. How many times do I have to say this? "I am looking forward to PvP in Diablo 3" Did you even read the post I made before the one I replied to? I gave good explanations as to why YOU ARE WRONG. The only reason I've had to repeat myself is that you seem to refuse to actually READ. Diablo 3 isn't a PvM only game with no options. Diablo 3 will have a full PvP system in the form of Arena.
Diablo 3 also has private and public games, meaning they could easily add duels to private games giving you the options you want. However, no..you must complain more. Why do you NEED duels in private games? You already said you didn't want to play with other players. Seems like private games with your friends would be perfect for you.
As to this..."BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?"...that statement alone pretty much kills all credibility you have. Period. How am I supposed to take anything you say from now on with any kind of respect when you say stuff like that?
There will be dueling in arenas, I have no doubt about it. Its a simple thing to add and no reason not to do it. There will never be a hostile feature for all the reasons that have been mentioned. People need to disregard Adon, he is pretty much either trolling or ignorant in all of his posts. He knows that the vast majority of people here view D3 as a PvM game with side PvP but he just likes to stir things up.
Yup. Arenas are exactly where duels would be appropriate. However, I am not opposed to private game open duels. This is mostly because it'd be a nice way to support those crazy people that play hardcore and want to duel to the death. If they were to add such an option to the Arena PvP though, I suppose I'd see little reason for private dueling as well.
As for Adon, I am mostly posting to explain why his viewpoints are wrong for the new people that enter the discussion later. I hope by explaining why things are the way they are and why PvP features in PvM gameplay are a bad idea, I will be able to stem the flood of identical posts. So far, it seems to work pretty well as the amount of threads complaining about the same things has slowed down. So, I'll continue to post responses unless the thread is closed.
Right, his theory does separate the community. No person would ever make a public game other then to do 1 specific quest then if they only get to play portions of the features. Is it that hard of a concept that people like to duel? Is it that hard of a concept that people might like to mess around once in a while? Is it that hard of a concept to see that this feature does less to harm the game and stall it then trading or lore stopping does? Or are you guys just that damn ignorant?
About the game being hard at later difficulties, I won't hold my breath on that, this is Diablo buddy. You are a 1 man army god, the game is completely soloable. If you suck then yea im sure you can't run ahead and kill the game, however I don't see that happening. Nothing other then developer tweaked game videos proves that you will actually die if you go off on your own.
I don't know why I bother haha, you guys that post in this section are so oblivious to the mechanics of Diablo and so oblivious to anything outside of PvM.
People aren't supposed to make PvM public games for anything but doing quests. That is the point of PvM public games. What is so hard to understand about this concept? Public games are for progressing on the storyline, period. They aren't for trade markets or open PvP, and this is evident by the Auction House and Arena. Lore stops are an intentional part of the game and are obviously considered as part of the downtime implemented into the game.
Its not hard to grasp the concept of dueling, but it is hard to grasp how it would benefit the overall community. In the past, features like that tend to create a hostile atmosphere for those that don't want to PvP. They encourage people to bully other players for duels in order to prove their superiority. It ends up even worse in Diablo 3 where the game is tuned for all four players to fight together to progress as now a duel doesn't only bother the one bullied into it, but the remaining players as well.
As for the game difficulty, Blizzard said themselves that they are expecting MONTHS before someone beats inferno. So don't expect to just easily grind through all difficulties. In addition, in four player matches the Rare/Elite monster packs have been tuned to REQUIRE three to four players to actually defeat. You don't notice this in the beta because you outlevel the content quite a bit, but Blizzard has stated you'll notice the difficulty a lot more after launch.
This means that everyone that joins a public game is expected to fight together towards the goal of progressing. There is no one person going ahead and completing everything ahead of the group like there was in Diablo 2. There is no fiddling around in town and expecting others to beat the content without you. Joining a public game is like joining an instance in WoW...you're expected to complete the goals involved or you're likely to get kicked (when the vote kick system is implemented). This is how Diablo 3 is designed and due to this design there is no place for a public duel system.
A private duel system I could understand as playing with your friends means you all likely have some interest in dueling together. Such a system wouldn't have a horrible impact on the overall community and would allow for players to make up their own rules for duels. Seems like a fine way to implement duels to me. Again, the only reason I can see to implement public duels is if a player purposely wants to bully someone into a duel. Essentially it'd be no different then adding hostility, and hostility is not a good feature for the game...period.
Nothing ever benefits everyone. Trading does not benefit me in game because ill use the AH. Chatting doesn't benefit me because I could care less what randoms have to say. PvMing with others doesn't benefit me because they will slow me down.
Everything you say to remove PvP from public games can be used to remove every feature in the game. Why don't you now answer the question, why the hell should I have to make 3 games to do such a simple task that bothers people even less then a trade or a lore stop? Instead of dodging the question because you simply have no good answer.
So.. you just said you won't be joining public games? Why do you need dueling in public games then?
Of course nothing benefits everyone, I was using the word everyone context to refer to the majority. Public open-world dueling only benefits the minority of the minority as many PvP players will still predominantly PvP in Arena. However, the negatives it can cause for the majority are numerous. So, how is public dueling a good feature for the game?
As for why you should have to make a separate game to go duel...it's simple...public games aren't for PvP. The End. I've already explained why. Blizzard themselves have giving PvP it's own spot in Diablo 3, separate from PvM. This is just how it is, end of story. The negatives outweigh the benefits. I'm willing to concede that private dueling could have some merit, but public games are meant for players to progress on quests and complete the story. Sure trading might hinder progression a lil, but it is accounted for by purposely bringing people to town as well as Blizzard taking away the ability to sell from within a dungeon. Lore stops likewise are expected stops as they are integrated into the game. Why add another feature that creates delay when it is counter productive to the primary goal of public games and generally will cause more harm then good?
You want Diablo 2 PvP back, I get that. Why you want it back, I don't really get as your reasoning seems quite flawed. You wouldn't go into an instance in WoW and stop everything to duel your friend to test a dagger you just got. Heck, you didn't even go into a PvM game in Diablo 2 and start dueling with a friend while the team was trying to kill Diablo. Why should to be allowed to do it in Diablo 3?
Right so I should be secluded to only private games, that is fair. Is that not the same exact complaint that many PvM'ers had in Diablo 1 and 2 because of being PK'd? So your solution is to segregate the community. Adding a duel function would and will not ruin the game by any means, at least not anymore then trading or repairing or chatting does. Also by your theory of how Diablo plays, it is a function that will get little play time, much less then trading or PvMing at least, so there is nothing to worry about. Why should we be thrown in the corner because we don't and shouldn't have to make 3 games to complete one simple task when it is only used for what a 5 second duel? Trading takes longer then a duel does haha.
And trading does not involve everyone in the game, only 2 of the 4 tops. Also about your mandatory visits to town, I only went to town in the beta because they forced me too, did I stay there beyond starting next quest...nope. Now lets say I do stay there, because I wanna get all of the lore and everything else but hey you don't want to...guess getting lore and other stuff that hinders the game speed should be put in private games only too right?
You know, I love how you dodge around my questions. Why do you need dueling in public games? If your whole point of having duels is to play with specific friends and duel to test out new equipment you gain while playing with them...aren't private games good enough?
Honestly, since public games in Diablo 3 focus specifically around completing quests or grinding inferno...what's the point? If a duel takes 5 seconds like you say, then there wouldn't even be any point to dueling at all even. Unless of course you were actually duel quite a bit more to actually get accurate information. No, the only use I can see duels in public games is creating a situation where someone goes "Duel me!" and then when the person says no... "Wha.. too chicken, you'll probably lose anyways..". The WHOLE purpose of public games is to do PvM content...this is VERY evident by the way public games work and the separation of PvP into Arenas. Implementing dueling in public games would go against the very design of the game...and for what benefit?
Honestly, it seems like you're grasping at straws trying to justify a PvP feature that doesn't belong. How would public game duels benefit the OVERALL community? The few that want duels vs the majority that want to PvM. How do you justify adding a feature that goes completely contrary to the game's design? How would it benefit everyone?...
Well lets see, I gave you a perfectly valid and good reason to allow it and all you did was pretty much deny it haha. It is no different then trading or dicking off in town. Your blind hate for anything PvP related is showing again, might wanna cover that up. I got an idea, cover it up with more BS about esports or PvP vs PvM haha.
Actually, how about you go back and read my post again. I believe I specifically stated that as long as it was limited to private games only, I could see duels. There is a clear difference between trading items between people that are all contributing towards the same goals (especially since Diablo 3 kind of has established town visits) and dueling with your friend, holding everyone up.
I don't hate PvP, I've been offering suggestions on various threads about how they could improve PvP without impacting the core of the game. This is another such instance, where I can concede that open-world dueling would be perfectly fine if it was kept to private games. In public games, the goal is definitely PvM. If you're already going to be playing with friends, why do you need it to be a public game to duel? The only reason I could see doing it is to 'call someone out' and bug them duel you. That isn't a feature that aids the goal of public games.. and I see no good reason for it to exist.
Simple, just leveled...got a nice new skill or hey just found a nice new item and want to test it out with your buddies, oh whats that I have to leave my game and make a new one just to mess around for a few minutes? Then I have to leave that game and make ANOTHER game and then REPEAT what I just did? Wow...that is retarded. I shouldn't have to make 3 games to get back to where I was, and I shouldn't have to redo anything when I shouldn't have to.
So, because you want to goof off with your friend...the other two people in the public game must wait while you test our your new item for PvP when they don't care about PvP at all? Sure.. sounds perfectly reasonable. If it was limited purely to private games, I guess wouldn't have much to complain about. So sure.. duels.. but only in private games. How's that? Fair enough?
My god some are you are brain dead.Diablo Universe previous to Diablo 3 has always been about both PVE and PVP+players who only play it for the lore/story line.
Stop saying your way is the right way,and Diablo means only PVP and bull shit like that.Diablo 3 is build the same way as Diablo 2.You can have PVE,you can have PVP and you can play it for the story line.
There`s absolutely zero reason why you cant PVP like before.You previously did it to have fun and maybe show you are the best,you can still do that now.
Also if you dont like it,dont buy it.
Well, you see...the reason people are complaining is that Diablo 3 doesn't have the same features of Diablo 2. Instead of going with the tacked on hostility system that existed in Diablo 2, they are actually giving PvP its own system completely. However, this takes away people's freedom to run around and kill people that don't want to PvP... and it seems PvP'ers feel they need to be allowed to do that. If not to kill others, to hold up the progression of two other players in a public game while they goof off with their friend.
I have nothing against PvP in Diablo 3. However, it has always been the case that the Diablo series has been designed around the storyline and PvM gameplay. Sure, you could PvP in all the games...but PvP was always tacked on. People got so used to that tacked on gameplay that being forced to PvP with enforced rules is a terrible thing. Honestly, I'm really looking forward to Arena. It should be a great break from running Inferno.
So does trading stall the game as well?
Does me going afk or going to town at all stall the game? There are a ton of ways to stall the game, to have that as your reason for no dueling is just blind hate.
Trading DOES stall the game. Though of course, Blizzard designed the game specifically to create a downtime period when people get full on gear and need to make a stop at town to sell items and trade. People wanting to duel to see who's better can take it to the Arena. There is little to no reason to allow dueling mid-game. Can you give me a good example, rather then insinuating that I hate PvP when I specifically have stated multiple times that I'm looking forward to the casual PvP in Diablo 3.
Way to use insults to prove a point. Oh wait...
Sorry, you're very wrong. A vast majority of players did play the game purely to smash monsters. In both D1 & D2 the PvP was an afterthought, tacked on to let people goof off fighting. It did become decently popular in some circles, however, generally those matches consisted of one person going out of town hostile and killing everyone else that came out. It basically creates a situation where unless you were a dick, you generally didn't like the PvP (there was exceptions, of course). Blizzard seeks to change that.
By integrating PvP via an Arena system with matchmaking, Blizzard has made PvP appeal to a wider audience then it appealed to before. In addition to this, by not having hostility they have improved the PvM experience as well. This isn't about taking away PvP or not giving it enough love. Blizzard is giving PvP more love then it EVER got in the previous games, its just not being designed around bullies that want to those less skilled as an ego boost. That is a positive thing, not a negative one.
I think I see the full picture pretty well, people want options to play the game how they want to play. However, I also see that Blizzard has taken a stance on the direction for their PvP and that is of a more casual nature. In all honesty, Diablo 3 has a similar game model to WoW in a lot of ways.
PvM is designed around instancing quests. You join an instance to accomplish a quest with a team of up to three other players and have the option to continue on after the quest is complete. It resembles WoW instances in a lot of ways and as such parallels can be used to explain why some features would be detrimental based on experience with WoW.
PvP is designed around getting casual players to join in on PvP. This means you need to be able to make games quick and easily without fussing with a ton of options. It needs to be easy to be picked up without a lot of pressure put on the player to excel. Again I'm able to make parallels to WoW with their PvP system. All PvP in WoW is very easy to jump right into. You don't set any options, you just choose the PvP type and jump in. This creates an environment where everyone can feel comfortable with participating.
Now, all that said... I've actually made suggestions for a private Arena mode that let you invite players and choose an Arena with a mode that allows players to essentially make up their own rules. This would allow people to setup their own matches and PvP how they wanted without impacting the overall design of the game.
It seems the issues comes down to you saying the features must be Public game features. The game just really isn't designed around these kind of features existing at all, much less as part of the Public game. As a private game feature though, I can hardly argue against them as they add options, and don't create confusion or harm to those that don't want to use them.
So, I really don't have issues with options if said options are left to private games. Public games should be kept how they are for the most part, however.
I went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
But, its not his idea.. I've been stating THAT EXACT SAME THING, multiple times in the thread. It seems you either didn't read my posts or ignored my statements due to some predetermined hatred towards me our of some perceived notion that I hate PvP.
Funny thing about that is that I've been the one trying to create compromises between the PvP and PvM communities. I've been suggesting things like a Arena type that allows players to fight without rules, open dueling in private only games, etc. Yet, I'm an enemy of PvP? Sorry, but no. What I am against is forcing PvP on PvM players. Period.
You failed to answer the question. Why is it suddenly a good suggestion when you've been complaining about it for the past few days? Realize you were wrong finally?
So, he repeats my suggestion and it is somehow 'insightful'? No offence to Kodachii of course, but I've stated a few times now that dueling in private games is the way to go. I've also explained why using the same reasoning pretty much. So, I am a little curious if you actually even read my posts.... or.... what?
Thank you Kodachii. +1
I really wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. How many times do I have to say this? "I am looking forward to PvP in Diablo 3" Did you even read the post I made before the one I replied to? I gave good explanations as to why YOU ARE WRONG. The only reason I've had to repeat myself is that you seem to refuse to actually READ. Diablo 3 isn't a PvM only game with no options. Diablo 3 will have a full PvP system in the form of Arena.
Diablo 3 also has private and public games, meaning they could easily add duels to private games giving you the options you want. However, no..you must complain more. Why do you NEED duels in private games? You already said you didn't want to play with other players. Seems like private games with your friends would be perfect for you.
As to this..."BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?"...that statement alone pretty much kills all credibility you have. Period. How am I supposed to take anything you say from now on with any kind of respect when you say stuff like that?
Yup. Arenas are exactly where duels would be appropriate. However, I am not opposed to private game open duels. This is mostly because it'd be a nice way to support those crazy people that play hardcore and want to duel to the death. If they were to add such an option to the Arena PvP though, I suppose I'd see little reason for private dueling as well.
As for Adon, I am mostly posting to explain why his viewpoints are wrong for the new people that enter the discussion later. I hope by explaining why things are the way they are and why PvP features in PvM gameplay are a bad idea, I will be able to stem the flood of identical posts. So far, it seems to work pretty well as the amount of threads complaining about the same things has slowed down. So, I'll continue to post responses unless the thread is closed.
People aren't supposed to make PvM public games for anything but doing quests. That is the point of PvM public games. What is so hard to understand about this concept? Public games are for progressing on the storyline, period. They aren't for trade markets or open PvP, and this is evident by the Auction House and Arena. Lore stops are an intentional part of the game and are obviously considered as part of the downtime implemented into the game.
Its not hard to grasp the concept of dueling, but it is hard to grasp how it would benefit the overall community. In the past, features like that tend to create a hostile atmosphere for those that don't want to PvP. They encourage people to bully other players for duels in order to prove their superiority. It ends up even worse in Diablo 3 where the game is tuned for all four players to fight together to progress as now a duel doesn't only bother the one bullied into it, but the remaining players as well.
As for the game difficulty, Blizzard said themselves that they are expecting MONTHS before someone beats inferno. So don't expect to just easily grind through all difficulties. In addition, in four player matches the Rare/Elite monster packs have been tuned to REQUIRE three to four players to actually defeat. You don't notice this in the beta because you outlevel the content quite a bit, but Blizzard has stated you'll notice the difficulty a lot more after launch.
This means that everyone that joins a public game is expected to fight together towards the goal of progressing. There is no one person going ahead and completing everything ahead of the group like there was in Diablo 2. There is no fiddling around in town and expecting others to beat the content without you. Joining a public game is like joining an instance in WoW...you're expected to complete the goals involved or you're likely to get kicked (when the vote kick system is implemented). This is how Diablo 3 is designed and due to this design there is no place for a public duel system.
A private duel system I could understand as playing with your friends means you all likely have some interest in dueling together. Such a system wouldn't have a horrible impact on the overall community and would allow for players to make up their own rules for duels. Seems like a fine way to implement duels to me. Again, the only reason I can see to implement public duels is if a player purposely wants to bully someone into a duel. Essentially it'd be no different then adding hostility, and hostility is not a good feature for the game...period.
So.. you just said you won't be joining public games? Why do you need dueling in public games then?
Of course nothing benefits everyone, I was using the word everyone context to refer to the majority. Public open-world dueling only benefits the minority of the minority as many PvP players will still predominantly PvP in Arena. However, the negatives it can cause for the majority are numerous. So, how is public dueling a good feature for the game?
As for why you should have to make a separate game to go duel...it's simple...public games aren't for PvP. The End. I've already explained why. Blizzard themselves have giving PvP it's own spot in Diablo 3, separate from PvM. This is just how it is, end of story. The negatives outweigh the benefits. I'm willing to concede that private dueling could have some merit, but public games are meant for players to progress on quests and complete the story. Sure trading might hinder progression a lil, but it is accounted for by purposely bringing people to town as well as Blizzard taking away the ability to sell from within a dungeon. Lore stops likewise are expected stops as they are integrated into the game. Why add another feature that creates delay when it is counter productive to the primary goal of public games and generally will cause more harm then good?
You want Diablo 2 PvP back, I get that. Why you want it back, I don't really get as your reasoning seems quite flawed. You wouldn't go into an instance in WoW and stop everything to duel your friend to test a dagger you just got. Heck, you didn't even go into a PvM game in Diablo 2 and start dueling with a friend while the team was trying to kill Diablo. Why should to be allowed to do it in Diablo 3?
You know, I love how you dodge around my questions. Why do you need dueling in public games? If your whole point of having duels is to play with specific friends and duel to test out new equipment you gain while playing with them...aren't private games good enough?
Honestly, since public games in Diablo 3 focus specifically around completing quests or grinding inferno...what's the point? If a duel takes 5 seconds like you say, then there wouldn't even be any point to dueling at all even. Unless of course you were actually duel quite a bit more to actually get accurate information. No, the only use I can see duels in public games is creating a situation where someone goes "Duel me!" and then when the person says no... "Wha.. too chicken, you'll probably lose anyways..". The WHOLE purpose of public games is to do PvM content...this is VERY evident by the way public games work and the separation of PvP into Arenas. Implementing dueling in public games would go against the very design of the game...and for what benefit?
Honestly, it seems like you're grasping at straws trying to justify a PvP feature that doesn't belong. How would public game duels benefit the OVERALL community? The few that want duels vs the majority that want to PvM. How do you justify adding a feature that goes completely contrary to the game's design? How would it benefit everyone?...
My answer?... I won't.
Actually, how about you go back and read my post again. I believe I specifically stated that as long as it was limited to private games only, I could see duels. There is a clear difference between trading items between people that are all contributing towards the same goals (especially since Diablo 3 kind of has established town visits) and dueling with your friend, holding everyone up.
I don't hate PvP, I've been offering suggestions on various threads about how they could improve PvP without impacting the core of the game. This is another such instance, where I can concede that open-world dueling would be perfectly fine if it was kept to private games. In public games, the goal is definitely PvM. If you're already going to be playing with friends, why do you need it to be a public game to duel? The only reason I could see doing it is to 'call someone out' and bug them duel you. That isn't a feature that aids the goal of public games.. and I see no good reason for it to exist.
So, because you want to goof off with your friend...the other two people in the public game must wait while you test our your new item for PvP when they don't care about PvP at all? Sure.. sounds perfectly reasonable. If it was limited purely to private games, I guess wouldn't have much to complain about. So sure.. duels.. but only in private games. How's that? Fair enough?
Well, you see...the reason people are complaining is that Diablo 3 doesn't have the same features of Diablo 2. Instead of going with the tacked on hostility system that existed in Diablo 2, they are actually giving PvP its own system completely. However, this takes away people's freedom to run around and kill people that don't want to PvP... and it seems PvP'ers feel they need to be allowed to do that. If not to kill others, to hold up the progression of two other players in a public game while they goof off with their friend.
I have nothing against PvP in Diablo 3. However, it has always been the case that the Diablo series has been designed around the storyline and PvM gameplay. Sure, you could PvP in all the games...but PvP was always tacked on. People got so used to that tacked on gameplay that being forced to PvP with enforced rules is a terrible thing. Honestly, I'm really looking forward to Arena. It should be a great break from running Inferno.
Trading DOES stall the game. Though of course, Blizzard designed the game specifically to create a downtime period when people get full on gear and need to make a stop at town to sell items and trade. People wanting to duel to see who's better can take it to the Arena. There is little to no reason to allow dueling mid-game. Can you give me a good example, rather then insinuating that I hate PvP when I specifically have stated multiple times that I'm looking forward to the casual PvP in Diablo 3.