No you don't have a choice, not yet anyways. It puts you up against a (premade) team of "near skill/power" (hidden match making value/rating) players. You can't goof off vs your friends, duel people 1v1, play in a last man standing kinda fashion, make your own rules, choose various fighting(map) environments etc, all we've been promised thus far is a 3 vs 3 barebones arena. That doesn't mean something else isn't in the works, but it does mean that it is all which is likely to pop up any time soon.
D3 will launch with absolutely zero pvp. Once this nuts and bolts arena 3v3 (maybe 4v4) system is added, we're still talking about the least pvp in any blizzard game released over the past 12+ years. You could make 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v3, 6v2, 7v1, ffa and fight all over diablo 2. Wow launched with open world pvp, gained bgs and arenas. Starcraft is a game where you only really ever play vs other people.
I seriously doubt they will stop at 3v3/4v4 though it is *likely* all we will see within the next year. They may give us such a lackluster system but introduce more functionality to it in an expansion etc.
I voted no because :
- it is obvious that, once private, people like you will ask for public (pure classic http://en.wikipedia....-door_technique )
- I support Blizzard vision : Diablo is Coop PvM, Arena is PvP. No mix
- this has been debated countless times
Plus, by posting a pro-pvp question in a forum section read mostly by pro-pvp players, you give the false impression that a lot of players are pro-yoursystem.
That's weak.
You've made some pretty big assumptions and accusations concerning me, even talking about my IRL personality. Don't act like you know me. Don't base your argument off an incorrect assumption because I'm anything but what you described. Get your facts straight sir.
Duel is fail because it's impossible to duel without letting the rest of the group handle the purpose of the game (which is PvM) alone.
THERE WILL BE PVP STOP ASKING FOR SHIT-COPY OF IT INCLUDED IN PVM GAMES
Calm down. Everything's going to be alright. For how much I read the posts from contributors (such as Ecutruin) which try and label pvper's as hot headed and prone to personal attacks and insults etc you sure are not helping to prove his point with posts like these.
There's no reason to be angry, we're trying to have a discussion here. Also If the pvp forum doesn't draw in pvm-specific players what are people like you doing here, and why are ~half the posts in this topic from people who specifically want to slay monsters and monsters basically alone. You may wish to rethink your points sir for they are flawed.
Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop telling other people how they should think or what they should or should not do/post about.
Blizzard's goal is to make money. They try and branch out to all types of players they've gathered thus far in any particular genre in order to gather their customers and then keep them fueling the game. B.net 2.0 was probably a priority in part because then they could advertise all blizzard games and events and gather the community as a whole. Just think annual pass. Think about what blizz did with arenas and battlegrounds in wow, and even as far back as d2. IF you want to talk about them trying to make it more of a "social, play together game" then understand what they did to wow. It used to be a much more social world, but they destroyed much of that by making the game more convenient for more people in the form of cross server, queue for anything from nearly anywhere, and lowered the quantity of players, and the quality (and bond) of said players that you need to do much of anything. Nearly everyone in wow is a wow-forum-hero and a legend in their own mind because there is no reason not to be.
As far as the "arena experience" goes what we've been told about the arena looked fairly completed back in 2008 so I don't know how hard it could possibly be to implement an existing working system.
I have a feeling that a lot more people revert to pvp when the "game" is "beaten" than you might believe. Even people hating on pvp now may ultimately change their opinion of it over time when they need a reason to continue endlessly grinding mobs for items. It's almost like clockwork. It's around that time I expect to see a little more loving come pvp's way.
I agree with slayer, a lot of people will always default to pvp when the content is cleared regardless of whether or not the reverse is true, that much is true. This gives them time to work in more pvp into either the arena or as polled in this topic (and received 2 to 1) adding it to private games. Most people who bother playing to 60 once will bother playing to 60 on additional characters as well, for them that is the additional content. It's after that (and the clearing of inferno) when pvp interested players will begin to quit if there is no dueling/private pvp match creation etc in the works.
This might be a good time to point out that all we've been promised thus far is a bare bones arena system with no additional utility beyond its 3v3 function.
I don't really care what other people have complained about. I've made polls about ideas for change whether be an idea of my own making or someone else's. I'm also fine with more features being added to arena to the same effect as you well know. With that said, this could also work and it wouldn't ruin anyone's gameplay experience just the same. All those votes for either hostility and duels could have been simply hostility, seeing as how hostility is just another way to duel to the death, but it also shows people are still enthusiastic about pvp and will take whatever they can get.
The way I see it, they are basically two ways of going about the same thing. PvP doesn't always have to be instanced to be done right, as private games are instances in themselves and particular to games like diablo and not typical modern mmorpg's. I just don't think it's right for you to flip flop on your own idea because you started to believe it might trick more players into asking for a griefing system in the oh so precious public quest system (which after everything I have read on these forums, I probably will rarely ever venture into.)
I think devoting the time instead to adding a more Arena features, more PvM content, etc would do a lot more towards keeping people play the game then a feature that the majority of players wouldn't use. There is little desire for these features from the overall community and I'd rather see the time spent elsewhere.
How can you say that (time and time again) with the way the votes are stacked up here alone. It's almost two to one. I understand resources, but also understand that a good many people see this as worth the (limited amount of) resources it'd take to implement in a patch or expansion down the road. I mean to be honest a lot of people who care about pvp have all but given up discussing it here because everytime they come post a handfull of people who want little to nothing to do with pvp in general come and smack them upside the head with pvm, which is cool and all, but this is the pvp forum after all as well. I didn't come into the pvp forum to talk about how we should save more resources for pvm The argument started out as "one player should not be able to ruin another player's gaming experience" to "blizzard doesn't have time to cater to both parties, my party wins, stop posting beating dead horse".
This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
Besides 'I want it' can you give just ONE reason on why bringing back hostility will benefit the community in any way? You say you want to implement it in private games with friends, did you know that you can just queue up for pvp with your friends when PVP for D3 is launched? It's literally the same thing, and without trying for a personal attack myself, it sounds like you are just nostalgic about D2 and you don't like change.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
Not sure why some people are still talking about hostility = griefing, seeing as how I have specifically said it'd be for private, passworded games *only* in just about every single post, the title, the poll, op, etc.
I'm not pvp focused I'm just typing in a pvp forum about pvp, not pvM.
I'll be hacking and slashing the vast majority of my playtime just like everyone else, you can't really pvp on an empty stomache so to speak anyways even if you were pvp focused because equipment is power. All I've done is taken a good idea and thrown it out there so it can get more attention.
And you changing your vote on your *own idea* just proves what I said in my last post. You people really are just here for the sake of arguing. Anything pvp related gets a huge ass thumbs down because despite what you say about wanting more pvp you keep lumping in pvp enthusiasts together as if they were another kind of breed of player apart from what you are or something.
It's amazing to me that people refuse to acknowledge such an easy, grief free switch to make the game better for nearly everyone. I guess I can't blame you, we've had one system after another ripped out from under our feet with excuses, so yes I believe in something similar to brain washing. People have taken every little thing the middle man has said and believed it with a full heart, it's quite sad actually.
Example? Here we are looking at a video unlock on the hype site where Jay *admits* to the team having a release date for 2011 settled back before the beta began, "despite what people think". It's amazing how people just clung to every little thing they've said without objectively thinking for themselves about why certain things are happening and why and being able to look at things with eyes wide open.
I have asked for the negative side of this argument, and the only arguments I've seen have simply not been strong enough. Resources? You might get griefed if you add a dbag to your friends list one time? Come on. I thought this was diablo, not fairy dragon unicorn raider deluxe.
I suggested the idea as a solution to fix the complaint that a few posters here on the forum had with wanting duels, so yes it was my suggestion. However, listening to people post about it shows me that all offering this would do is to give fuel to people complaining that dueling/hostility isn't in public. Its not a fix for a problem, nor would it make the game better for everyone. The majority of Diablo 3 players probably would never use the features. Especially if Blizzard just adds a 1v1 or FFA Arena type. This would only cater to a small group of Diablo 2 players that cannot cope with change. I don't mean to say it in such a harsh way, but I see no other way to say it.
Diablo 3 will have a rather integrated and fun PvP system from what Blizzard has shown us. I see no reason at all for them to devote any resources to adding features like these when they will likely cause more problems then solutions. If they were to add these features to private only, you won't see me complaining about them...but I'm certainly not going to push for their existence.
Look at those that post supporting your side, Kodachii...they tend to flame, troll, harass, insult, etc. Do you think that the majority of us want more people with that mentality? Do we want features that encourage more people to be like them? I certainly don't...
Look it's not that hard. I took the idea from you yourself. There's no need to play social politics (blah blah you hurt my feelings I'm a victim blah blah) with it and base our thought process on blind hatred for one crop or what "might" happen. Also, nearly everyone would use this feature overtime, gauranteed. Even if they were originally against it, they would find it useful at some point in time. I'm as anxious as anyone to get in there and bash me up some monsters, but I also know the vast majority of players will still spend most of their time in >private games< playing with their >friends and family as well as solo< and having a convenience like non-grief hostility or duels in >private games< would be a huge credit to the diablo series.
I'm not pvp focused I'm just typing in a pvp forum about pvp, not pvM.
I'll be hacking and slashing the vast majority of my playtime just like everyone else, you can't really pvp on an empty stomache so to speak anyways even if you were pvp focused because equipment is power. All I've done is taken a good idea and thrown it out there so it can get more attention.
And you changing your vote on your *own idea* just proves what I said in my last post. You people really are just here for the sake of arguing. Anything pvp related gets a huge ass thumbs down because despite what you say about wanting more pvp you keep lumping in pvp enthusiasts together as if they were another kind of breed of player apart from what you are or something.
It's amazing to me that people refuse to acknowledge such an easy, grief free switch to make the game better for nearly everyone. I guess I can't blame you, we've had one system after another ripped out from under our feet with excuses, so yes I believe in something similar to brain washing. People have taken every little thing the middle man has said and believed it with a full heart, it's quite sad actually.
Example? Here we are looking at a video unlock on the hype site where Jay *admits* to the team having a release date for 2011 settled back before the beta began, "despite what people think". It's amazing how people just clung to every little thing they've said without objectively thinking for themselves about why certain things are happening and why and being able to look at things with eyes wide open.
I have asked for the negative side of this argument, and the only arguments I've seen have simply not been strong enough. Resources? You might get griefed if you add a dbag to your friends list one time? Come on. I thought this was diablo, not fairy dragon unicorn raider deluxe.
While everyone's entitled to their own opinion I swear a few posters here like to argue for the sake of arguing. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong, just that there appears to be a lot of pvM talk in what should have been the pvp forums and since people who want next to nothing to do with pvp and are in love with PvM are posting here a lot of these threads are bound to become condesending rather quickly because it isn't likely that two people on opposite sides, both with zero tolerance will agree with each other.
And the bit about doing real life (amongst other things) isn't particularly a great point, in terms of my situation. I will have to set aside specific times to even be able to play, personally. I'm a busy person. I didn't have the time to jump circles in WoW and I barely played enough games in sc2 to keep my league displayed. I play (total gaming) maybe 2 hours a week right now on steam with a few friends and family members. Maybe if I were a worthless slob who contributed nothing to the world and sat around jumping circles all day and inflating the multiplayer auction houses with my amazing farm antics it'd be much better advice, albeit I figure the original poster of the idea was half joking, like most things on these forums it got picked up and ran away with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The strong must rule if we are to survive.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
D3 will launch with absolutely zero pvp. Once this nuts and bolts arena 3v3 (maybe 4v4) system is added, we're still talking about the least pvp in any blizzard game released over the past 12+ years. You could make 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v3, 6v2, 7v1, ffa and fight all over diablo 2. Wow launched with open world pvp, gained bgs and arenas. Starcraft is a game where you only really ever play vs other people.
I seriously doubt they will stop at 3v3/4v4 though it is *likely* all we will see within the next year. They may give us such a lackluster system but introduce more functionality to it in an expansion etc.
You've made some pretty big assumptions and accusations concerning me, even talking about my IRL personality. Don't act like you know me. Don't base your argument off an incorrect assumption because I'm anything but what you described. Get your facts straight sir.
Calm down. Everything's going to be alright. For how much I read the posts from contributors (such as Ecutruin) which try and label pvper's as hot headed and prone to personal attacks and insults etc you sure are not helping to prove his point with posts like these.
There's no reason to be angry, we're trying to have a discussion here. Also If the pvp forum doesn't draw in pvm-specific players what are people like you doing here, and why are ~half the posts in this topic from people who specifically want to slay monsters and monsters basically alone. You may wish to rethink your points sir for they are flawed.
Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop telling other people how they should think or what they should or should not do/post about.
Thanks again,
Kodachi.
As far as the "arena experience" goes what we've been told about the arena looked fairly completed back in 2008 so I don't know how hard it could possibly be to implement an existing working system.
I have a feeling that a lot more people revert to pvp when the "game" is "beaten" than you might believe. Even people hating on pvp now may ultimately change their opinion of it over time when they need a reason to continue endlessly grinding mobs for items. It's almost like clockwork. It's around that time I expect to see a little more loving come pvp's way.
The way I see it, they are basically two ways of going about the same thing. PvP doesn't always have to be instanced to be done right, as private games are instances in themselves and particular to games like diablo and not typical modern mmorpg's. I just don't think it's right for you to flip flop on your own idea because you started to believe it might trick more players into asking for a griefing system in the oh so precious public quest system (which after everything I have read on these forums, I probably will rarely ever venture into.)
How can you say that (time and time again) with the way the votes are stacked up here alone. It's almost two to one. I understand resources, but also understand that a good many people see this as worth the (limited amount of) resources it'd take to implement in a patch or expansion down the road. I mean to be honest a lot of people who care about pvp have all but given up discussing it here because everytime they come post a handfull of people who want little to nothing to do with pvp in general come and smack them upside the head with pvm, which is cool and all, but this is the pvp forum after all as well. I didn't come into the pvp forum to talk about how we should save more resources for pvm
It would keep more people around playing for longer in the long run (more box sales, more dlc purchase, more auction house transaction fees) and keep some of the flavor people loved about the old diablo games but in a more controlled non-grief environment hurting no one.
It's not even close to being the same thing. First off hostility doesn't promote esports, unlike a (hidden) ranked arena with pre-compositioned teams and gear. Second it's a way to goof off and play against your friends, so to speak, during existing games for fun. It's a completely laid back environment whereas arena stresses people out. Even with their records barely shown in sc2, people are afraid to queue up because they know they're being ranked in the end. The vast majority of people will be playing solo or in private games with friends and family, especially over time, despite what people may think (the beta is an extremely small world without public features).
As of right now there is no way and no promise that the arena will be customizable in so that you can play against who you want and how you want to. It will always be you and your friends vs 3 randoms in a tdm setting. That's fine and all, but it's not quite enough for the people here who actually should be posting in the pvp forums about pvp not about pvm and how we want to control the way people think and the amount of complaints blizzard might potentially get.
Resources 2 years into retail =/= good argument for making the game better with features that have existed and should continue to exist in one form or another for over a decade.
Look it's not that hard. I took the idea from you yourself. There's no need to play social politics (blah blah you hurt my feelings I'm a victim blah blah) with it and base our thought process on blind hatred for one crop or what "might" happen. Also, nearly everyone would use this feature overtime, gauranteed. Even if they were originally against it, they would find it useful at some point in time. I'm as anxious as anyone to get in there and bash me up some monsters, but I also know the vast majority of players will still spend most of their time in >private games< playing with their >friends and family as well as solo< and having a convenience like non-grief hostility or duels in >private games< would be a huge credit to the diablo series.
I'll be hacking and slashing the vast majority of my playtime just like everyone else, you can't really pvp on an empty stomache so to speak anyways even if you were pvp focused because equipment is power. All I've done is taken a good idea and thrown it out there so it can get more attention.
And you changing your vote on your *own idea* just proves what I said in my last post. You people really are just here for the sake of arguing. Anything pvp related gets a huge ass thumbs down because despite what you say about wanting more pvp you keep lumping in pvp enthusiasts together as if they were another kind of breed of player apart from what you are or something.
It's amazing to me that people refuse to acknowledge such an easy, grief free switch to make the game better for nearly everyone. I guess I can't blame you, we've had one system after another ripped out from under our feet with excuses, so yes I believe in something similar to brain washing. People have taken every little thing the middle man has said and believed it with a full heart, it's quite sad actually.
Example? Here we are looking at a video unlock on the hype site where Jay *admits* to the team having a release date for 2011 settled back before the beta began, "despite what people think". It's amazing how people just clung to every little thing they've said without objectively thinking for themselves about why certain things are happening and why and being able to look at things with eyes wide open.
I have asked for the negative side of this argument, and the only arguments I've seen have simply not been strong enough. Resources? You might get griefed if you add a dbag to your friends list one time? Come on. I thought this was diablo, not fairy dragon unicorn raider deluxe.
And the bit about doing real life (amongst other things) isn't particularly a great point, in terms of my situation. I will have to set aside specific times to even be able to play, personally. I'm a busy person. I didn't have the time to jump circles in WoW and I barely played enough games in sc2 to keep my league displayed. I play (total gaming) maybe 2 hours a week right now on steam with a few friends and family members. Maybe if I were a worthless slob who contributed nothing to the world and sat around jumping circles all day and inflating the multiplayer auction houses with my amazing farm antics it'd be much better advice, albeit I figure the original poster of the idea was half joking, like most things on these forums it got picked up and ran away with.