See, the issue is not that we don't want you to have fun PvPing. Hell, I will most definitely participate in Arena once it is released. The issue is that we don't want to be FORCED to PvP when we want to just PvM. Diablo 3 has a completely different system for handling games (no game lists, just public and private).
What is the difference between open-PvP and the Arena system? Well, you cannot just go hostile and attack someone...which is actually a good thing. You cannot go duel someone in the middle of a progression run, making the two other people quit...oh wait..that's also a good thing. You cannot make up your own rules for PvP matches...ok...I give you that one.
Guess what?! I got a suggestion for a solution, private Arena matches...you make your own PvP game, invite players, make up your own rules and fight it out. Simple, fits in the current design, and offers the flexibility most want with open-PvP. Gives you the opportunity to battle with others that want to battle like you, and lets us that don't...not. These private Arena's could allow for spectators to let people stream and commentate battles, without Blizzard giving the impression that they are pushing eSports. By doing that, it lets them off the hook and lets people turn the game into an eSport on their own if they like (without completely balanced classes of course).
See, I'm not against PvP. What I am against is people trying to shoehorn Diablo 2 into a new game (Diablo 3). Blizzard chose to make the focus of Diablo 3 be PvM. They learned from the issues they had with allowing PvP to drive PvM design from WoW...essentially PvP ruined a lot of the PvM experience because having the awesome abilities or chance on hits meant they were too good or too bad for PvP. It is good that they've taken the direction they have as it lets them make the game feel a lot more epic, making abilities smash through enemies as you work your way through the story. They didn't neglect PvP in this new design, but they did decide to make it a more casual experience.
Blizzard doesn't expect you to buy Diablo 3 for PvP, they expect you to buy it to play through the story and grind for gear. That's what Diablo has always been about and its still the case here. If you like the new PvP system they offer, awesome...I'm sure I will. If you don't, enjoy the story and be done...it'll still be worth your money. If you don't think it's worth your money because it doesn't have epic PvP...then don't buy it. Whatever option you choose, don't try to shoehorn a very old tacked on PvP system into a game that already has its own PvP system.
The one thing I've been saying and I just don't agree with you on is the fact of how little griefing happened in games that were 100% dedicated to PvM, like Baal, PvM named games. So on that we will never agree, I've done them thousands and thousands of times so I know damn well what goes on. Again, I agree hostility would NEVER work in its current state that D3 is in and that is no game names. Bring those back and I feel it would be a lot smoother. I hate arenas, always have and always will bottled up pvp isn't real pvp to me. we need wide open spaces. I would suggest making games with a check mark options, allow hostility or don't. BUT FOR GODS SAKE BRING BACK GAME NAMES, I dunno who the hell thought it was a great idea to get rid of that but he should be fired, plane and simple the single worst change they did even more then hostility. Make it so that you can simply say in the game title PvM or PvP come join the fun! and its as simple as that, you could even have battles over events and rares in games where the maker allowed hostility while it wouldn't be AS fun, with the current way that I just now found out that every one gets their own gear it would work out I think. This is a win win for every one, we get world pvp while not as spontaneous sometimes its about all that's left with how they changed things.
It's too bad they changed the way loot works that was a great part of it was winning that loot being the fast clicker! but we gotta work with what we have so I feel if they would just simply bring back titles and descriptions of games it could work, simply click hostility on or off.
EDIT: again :D! This thread made me realize something...and that's the fact that them removing game names pisses me off far more then the removal of hostility....Maybe I wanna trade xxxx item for yyyyy item? Maybe I want a few pairs of Imps for my Wizzies, or 08 valk or maybe I'd like 3/20/20's and I have other items I'd like to trade for them? From what I can see on beta there is no option to do such a thing. Someone please correct me on this if I'm mistaken because that blows my mind why they would do that.
Yeah each person gets their own loot that no one else can see.
I will be interested to see if they add content like this in to D3. I would love to see it because it like uber trist added more for me to do to keep me playing all this time haha.
I agree, it kept me going just that lil bit longer myself. XD I remember it well, two of my 3/20/20's poofed and it made perfect room for the one i got for my barb.
Or you can request a system where no one can force someone else to participate if they dont want to. But all these solutions from pvp-centric people seem to revolve around we PvMers are ruining your fun by not wanting it. But so we dont spoil your fun we should just suck it up when it happens "once in a while" I dont think I am being the hypocrite here.
This is the type of thing that can go both ways, PvPing just to grief someone I'm with you, wasn't something I enjoyed. Killing a lowbie is just pointless to me, but what isn't pointless is killing someone for a rare spawn like Diablo clone. I see nothing wrong with fighting to the death for such a thing. Make it so you cant hostile lower levels then you, say....60's can only hostile 55-60. Some points we agree on, others I see it as its a free for all game, I should be able to fight you for the loot if I so choose. That anni is rare and it could be that one in a million perfect one, I want it I'll kill you for it.
And within the system that currently exists I don't think that is a totally unreasonable way to look at it. But obviously wont be an issue when we all have our own loot in D3 :-P
I'm not gonna lie, I do very little reading about D3 I tend to like surprises about most things. This I wasn't aware of, every person gets individual loot? As in no longer who clicks the fastest? That's both good and bad, mostly good get rid of the click hacks but being the first to click that rare and it being an amazing find was always fun and a rush!
It would also still raise the issue of, I could hostile you kill it and get the loot for myself and my friends in our ''party''. That's the way I'd see it. Only type of thing this would arise on is things big such as diablo clone if there is something like that in d3. something thats a huge event. that really truly matters.
Or you can request a system where no one can force someone else to participate if they dont want to. But all these solutions from pvp-centric people seem to revolve around we PvMers are ruining your fun by not wanting it. But so we dont spoil your fun we should just suck it up when it happens "once in a while" I dont think I am being the hypocrite here.
This is the type of thing that can go both ways, PvPing just to grief someone I'm with you, wasn't something I enjoyed. Killing a lowbie is just pointless to me, but what isn't pointless is killing someone for a rare spawn like Diablo clone. I see nothing wrong with fighting to the death for such a thing. Make it so you cant hostile lower levels then you, say....60's can only hostile 55-60. Some points we agree on, others I see it as its a free for all game, I should be able to fight you for the loot if I so choose. That anni is rare and it could be that one in a million perfect one, I want it I'll kill you for it.
EDIT: I love edit button. Like I said though, many of you are far over playing how bad griefing was in lower levels and fun PvM games. It didn't happen nearly as much as you all seem to think it did, I'm one of you that loves PvM just as much as I love to PvP. Killing that stuff and having fun with friends or even strangers is a huge part of the game for me, and PvP griefing in games dedicated to such just almost never happened. Again, we would have to go back to the D2 style of games poping up and you picking which you'd like to do PvP PvM, Baal runs ect ect. They do spill over, no system is perfect but it was damn close.
Oh this makes so much sense instead of me not wanting to have to pvp if I dont want to I should just suck it up and do it anyway. Thank you so much for clarifying this for me
Because you know...those of us who don't want to be griefed are clearly just undergeared bitches...
Game names:
Baal run #5
Full clear act 1-5!!!
Fun PvMin, come join!
I dunno about you, but I enjoyed doing those things as well, and I did just as I stated made games like those, PvP vary rarely ever happened. So, I still fail to understand. You talk about how you don't want your fun ruined, so your fun is more important then our world pvp? You're being a lil hypocritical yourself. PvM is great, but so is PvP leaving hostility in pvp happens once in a while big whoop. Remove hostility world pvp never happens and you've removed that fun for every one that enjoyed it. Funny how that works.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I do agree on one thing. Hostility would never work in D3s current system. It would have to go back to the old huge chat channels (btw why was this removed?) and being able to see game names and CHOOSE which you would like to join. It blows my mind why they took this away in the first place, it was a perfect system in my eyes, and they attempted to fix what wasn't broke and broke it.
So many of you talk about being griefed by this but over the many years I played D2 it was never a issue... And saying PvP wasn't a core part of D2 is ignorant to say the least, there were endless PvP based games, duals 1, 2, 3, duelzzz, duellzzzzz ect ect ect. these games were endless and were always full and filled right away. The fun part? it was the world we pvp'd in, you VERY RARELY like i'm talking one in every 100+++ game of a baal run game would ever see some guy come in and hostile people. The only thing I can see here is people being whiny that they didn't have the top notch gear to compete. Trangs, Tal rasha sets ect is the type of gear level I expect from people that complain about this type of thing. Even while leveling you would almost never get a level 90+ come into your game because well he couldn't see the game on your list so to see the game they had to be on that level of a character go log over to the high one then join lol it just didn't happen. (remember you could only see your level of difficulty that your character was at, normal seen normal games, hell seen hell games ect ect).
The way I can see to going back to this type of thing, and why they removed this option is beyond me and its what made the game great in some sense. Seeing game names and descriptions as well as who is in the game and their levels. Baal runs, duels, trading (even with the AH maybe some want to bypass the AH? who knows, maybe they wanna trade an item for an item ect ect.) Most importantly this would keep 90%+ of the pvp in guess what, PVP games!!! Like it was in D2.
Another time were PvP is epic, OMG!!! Diablo clone walks the earth! Holy shit we gotta find him first. Oh crap someone else found him, ok time to fight for it! bam pvp happens, the victors get the rewards. The strong are rewarded and get the gear! My BvC was level....95 or 96~(which I had releveled many times to reduce strength to put on gear with +str like imps, rare rings/neck ect ect) when I called it quits on leveling him and he finally retired but he was an unstoppable killing machine, was he always like that? hell no, it took years to build up gear to that level, but the pvp was the main focus to reach that level of strength, so I could plow through my enemies on the battle fields. To be that top dog. I'll admit PvM is a HUGE part of it as well, just as much as PvP was to me, finding those insane items, gambling getting lucky on that insanely OP circlet or ammy that was what it was about!! Get that gear then turn around and use it to smash peoples faces in. My BvC was already unstoppable vs monsters nothing could stop it and this is were inferno comes in to continue the fun part of PvM and keep that part a challenge.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, you guys are way over playing hostility. Its negatives were never as bad as you say they are, and it happened few and far between. And so what if it does happen? It is a friend oriented game, join forces and go against that person? Get on your main and show them how its really done, rather then complain and whine boo hoo he killed me. So what? KILL HIM!
EDIT: One last thing, this type of thing is what killed world pvp in WoW. PvPing in a box isn't fun, it never was. Wide open spaces for you to roam and kill freely that's what it was all about. D2 had me hooked for well over 7 years, large amount of that was pvp based. I fear D3 has lost that, I just hope the PvM is so godly epic that it can keep me playing for as long as the last one. Diablo series has been hands down my favorite blizzard has produced gaming wise I just feel they made a mistake by taking out world pvp.
How geared were people that disliked the pvp? Not trying to bash on any one, but it blows my mind that people could dislike such an amazing part of the game. I mean if you were in full tal gear, or... w/e the barb set was ect ect then I could understand how it must have been painful, but anyone that had played for years and actually had put time and effort into a character to be the true best it could be I dunno those people always loved it. At least that was my exp. with people I came across on CC-comp, and other boards.
EDIT: The hardcore people I understand, the hacks ect would make it very UN-fun. But again...passworded games. Even remove it from hardcore, but would have been nice to keep it in the SC section of gameplay.
I'm pretty new to the site, mostly a lurker but pvp was always my fav. So I feel its only right to have my first post here.
God, I'm gonna miss hostile. Any game I play i always shoot to be the best in, and pvp was HUGE in D2 its amazes me how many people disliked it here. It wasnt balanced per say, but that wasnt exactly what made it fun....the whole world was a pvp battleground, fighting over a diablo clone? hell yes, get pissed off at someone in your baal run? Hostile and hunt him down!!!! Just so many memories staying up all night pvping with my friends, I'll always miss those good times. Going into a pvp game hostileing every one and it just being a huge free for all, and who could beat out every one and just destroy the whole game and wipe the floor with people.
Over the years I became very wealthy in D2, I played a BvC for years. Fully geared, I'm talking full 3/20/20's, Un-named Wizzies (before they got hugly duped). I then named them Craig's Wizzard Spike Gloves :D! Perm imps, cant recall the names of the rings, but they were the two insane rare quality rings one was storm somthing? near perfect anni, and hell fire charm after it came out. If i remember correctly I used perfect ebotd axe with a e-buged beast? and the sexy 08 valk, ect ect you get the point. Point is, the whole fun part of D2 was to just simply destroy people and have a great time with friends pvping in 1v7 games!
My best friend at the time played a Orb sorc, so we pretty much just went into pvp games and 2v6'd every one and it was GG! gonna miss those days, they were truely epic and fun. I do get that not every one is in it for that reason, but thats what passworded games are for if you dont want your fun ruined by pvp. It makes me sad to see four person limit in games and no hostile ability, Its obvious those days are gone but none the less the memories will always last and i'm glad I got to experiance the epicness that was D2 in its prime. I've been itching to restart playing but man it would be brutal starting over from scratch after having so much in that game. I really hope arena in D3 will capture some of that old school pvp that was d2, but I doubt it. I guess all we can hope for is maybe they will add in the ability to go hostile in a future patch!
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The one thing I've been saying and I just don't agree with you on is the fact of how little griefing happened in games that were 100% dedicated to PvM, like Baal, PvM named games. So on that we will never agree, I've done them thousands and thousands of times so I know damn well what goes on. Again, I agree hostility would NEVER work in its current state that D3 is in and that is no game names. Bring those back and I feel it would be a lot smoother. I hate arenas, always have and always will bottled up pvp isn't real pvp to me. we need wide open spaces. I would suggest making games with a check mark options, allow hostility or don't. BUT FOR GODS SAKE BRING BACK GAME NAMES, I dunno who the hell thought it was a great idea to get rid of that but he should be fired, plane and simple the single worst change they did even more then hostility. Make it so that you can simply say in the game title PvM or PvP come join the fun! and its as simple as that, you could even have battles over events and rares in games where the maker allowed hostility while it wouldn't be AS fun, with the current way that I just now found out that every one gets their own gear it would work out I think. This is a win win for every one, we get world pvp while not as spontaneous sometimes its about all that's left with how they changed things.
It's too bad they changed the way loot works that was a great part of it was winning that loot being the fast clicker! but we gotta work with what we have so I feel if they would just simply bring back titles and descriptions of games it could work, simply click hostility on or off.
EDIT: again :D! This thread made me realize something...and that's the fact that them removing game names pisses me off far more then the removal of hostility....Maybe I wanna trade xxxx item for yyyyy item? Maybe I want a few pairs of Imps for my Wizzies, or 08 valk or maybe I'd like 3/20/20's and I have other items I'd like to trade for them? From what I can see on beta there is no option to do such a thing. Someone please correct me on this if I'm mistaken because that blows my mind why they would do that.
I agree, it kept me going just that lil bit longer myself. XD I remember it well, two of my 3/20/20's poofed and it made perfect room for the one i got for my barb.
I'm not gonna lie, I do very little reading about D3 I tend to like surprises about most things. This I wasn't aware of, every person gets individual loot? As in no longer who clicks the fastest? That's both good and bad, mostly good get rid of the click hacks but being the first to click that rare and it being an amazing find was always fun and a rush!
It would also still raise the issue of, I could hostile you kill it and get the loot for myself and my friends in our ''party''. That's the way I'd see it. Only type of thing this would arise on is things big such as diablo clone if there is something like that in d3. something thats a huge event. that really truly matters.
This is the type of thing that can go both ways, PvPing just to grief someone I'm with you, wasn't something I enjoyed. Killing a lowbie is just pointless to me, but what isn't pointless is killing someone for a rare spawn like Diablo clone. I see nothing wrong with fighting to the death for such a thing. Make it so you cant hostile lower levels then you, say....60's can only hostile 55-60. Some points we agree on, others I see it as its a free for all game, I should be able to fight you for the loot if I so choose. That anni is rare and it could be that one in a million perfect one, I want it I'll kill you for it.
EDIT: I love edit button. Like I said though, many of you are far over playing how bad griefing was in lower levels and fun PvM games. It didn't happen nearly as much as you all seem to think it did, I'm one of you that loves PvM just as much as I love to PvP. Killing that stuff and having fun with friends or even strangers is a huge part of the game for me, and PvP griefing in games dedicated to such just almost never happened. Again, we would have to go back to the D2 style of games poping up and you picking which you'd like to do PvP PvM, Baal runs ect ect. They do spill over, no system is perfect but it was damn close.
Game names:
Baal run #5
Full clear act 1-5!!!
Fun PvMin, come join!
I dunno about you, but I enjoyed doing those things as well, and I did just as I stated made games like those, PvP vary rarely ever happened. So, I still fail to understand. You talk about how you don't want your fun ruined, so your fun is more important then our world pvp? You're being a lil hypocritical yourself. PvM is great, but so is PvP leaving hostility in pvp happens once in a while big whoop. Remove hostility world pvp never happens and you've removed that fun for every one that enjoyed it. Funny how that works.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I do agree on one thing. Hostility would never work in D3s current system. It would have to go back to the old huge chat channels (btw why was this removed?) and being able to see game names and CHOOSE which you would like to join. It blows my mind why they took this away in the first place, it was a perfect system in my eyes, and they attempted to fix what wasn't broke and broke it.
The way I can see to going back to this type of thing, and why they removed this option is beyond me and its what made the game great in some sense. Seeing game names and descriptions as well as who is in the game and their levels. Baal runs, duels, trading (even with the AH maybe some want to bypass the AH? who knows, maybe they wanna trade an item for an item ect ect.) Most importantly this would keep 90%+ of the pvp in guess what, PVP games!!! Like it was in D2.
Another time were PvP is epic, OMG!!! Diablo clone walks the earth! Holy shit we gotta find him first. Oh crap someone else found him, ok time to fight for it! bam pvp happens, the victors get the rewards. The strong are rewarded and get the gear! My BvC was level....95 or 96~(which I had releveled many times to reduce strength to put on gear with +str like imps, rare rings/neck ect ect) when I called it quits on leveling him and he finally retired but he was an unstoppable killing machine, was he always like that? hell no, it took years to build up gear to that level, but the pvp was the main focus to reach that level of strength, so I could plow through my enemies on the battle fields. To be that top dog. I'll admit PvM is a HUGE part of it as well, just as much as PvP was to me, finding those insane items, gambling getting lucky on that insanely OP circlet or ammy that was what it was about!! Get that gear then turn around and use it to smash peoples faces in. My BvC was already unstoppable vs monsters nothing could stop it and this is were inferno comes in to continue the fun part of PvM and keep that part a challenge.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, you guys are way over playing hostility. Its negatives were never as bad as you say they are, and it happened few and far between. And so what if it does happen? It is a friend oriented game, join forces and go against that person? Get on your main and show them how its really done, rather then complain and whine boo hoo he killed me. So what? KILL HIM!
EDIT: One last thing, this type of thing is what killed world pvp in WoW. PvPing in a box isn't fun, it never was. Wide open spaces for you to roam and kill freely that's what it was all about. D2 had me hooked for well over 7 years, large amount of that was pvp based. I fear D3 has lost that, I just hope the PvM is so godly epic that it can keep me playing for as long as the last one. Diablo series has been hands down my favorite blizzard has produced gaming wise I just feel they made a mistake by taking out world pvp.
EDIT: The hardcore people I understand, the hacks ect would make it very UN-fun. But again...passworded games. Even remove it from hardcore, but would have been nice to keep it in the SC section of gameplay.
God, I'm gonna miss hostile. Any game I play i always shoot to be the best in, and pvp was HUGE in D2 its amazes me how many people disliked it here. It wasnt balanced per say, but that wasnt exactly what made it fun....the whole world was a pvp battleground, fighting over a diablo clone? hell yes, get pissed off at someone in your baal run? Hostile and hunt him down!!!! Just so many memories staying up all night pvping with my friends, I'll always miss those good times. Going into a pvp game hostileing every one and it just being a huge free for all, and who could beat out every one and just destroy the whole game and wipe the floor with people.
Over the years I became very wealthy in D2, I played a BvC for years. Fully geared, I'm talking full 3/20/20's, Un-named Wizzies (before they got hugly duped). I then named them Craig's Wizzard Spike Gloves :D! Perm imps, cant recall the names of the rings, but they were the two insane rare quality rings one was storm somthing? near perfect anni, and hell fire charm after it came out. If i remember correctly I used perfect ebotd axe with a e-buged beast? and the sexy 08 valk, ect ect you get the point. Point is, the whole fun part of D2 was to just simply destroy people and have a great time with friends pvping in 1v7 games!
My best friend at the time played a Orb sorc, so we pretty much just went into pvp games and 2v6'd every one and it was GG!