For all the people who are liking the changes to the rune system, I'd like to hear from you on this. Not because I am trying to start a war, but because I'm actually curious about your opinion on it -- and everyone's for that matter.
What about the skill without a rune affix? Once you get that first skill rune unlocked for that skill, you will in all likelihood start using that rune on that skill, until you unlock a better one (one that more fits your playstyle). The base skills are useless once you have a rune unlocked for it.
I understand this is true in the old system too, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you'd find a rune that was worth putting into that skill. Now the decision seems kind of forced upon you, does it not?
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
So happy for this! There would have been countless of useless runestones that nobody would use just like in early diablo 2 with so many lower level runestones. They are opting to have a much more cleaner environment, and this makes perfect sense. It would be super annoying to have to wait to get the rune you want to socket your skill. Then to have to upgrade it.... that would suck!
If you actually understood the rune changes you wouldn't have said this because this "better" system actually does what you're complaining about. In the older system runes dropped like candy of all types, so it wasn't hard to find obsidian crimson or alabaster it was all equal. Now they FORCE YOU TO WAIT. So if anything you should be upset at the new design not the old one...
The reason the old system didn't work (and they undoubtedly figured this out in testing) is because level 60 players have absolutely no need for them anymore, but they continue to drop nevertheless. It's the same reason they got rid of identify scrolls. Once you had 50 of them (because too many dropped), there went another thing that drop that had NO VALUE!
Blizzard knows that this game is supposed to be designed for the level 60 characters. The end game is all that matters for those of us who will play this game for the next 5+ years. I don't want to have these damn items that have no value dropping all over the place and polluting my item game.
This is a silly argument, considering Blizzard just removed almost all value from white items. And that was what, two beta patches ago? They said themselves that having these items of no value remain in the game makes it all the more rewarding when you find the one that is really valuable.
I see what you are saying but the item system doesn't work that way.
The way the Magic Find system works is, white items drop on the ground, period. There's a base probability that white item becoming either an uncommon(blue), rare(yellow), legendary(orange), or set(green) plus the probability added by magic find. Without white items dropping in the first place, the whole system would have to be revamped.
Plus, would it really be a diablo game if white items didn't drop? I think everyone agrees that would be a bad experience. I like it when treasure chests explode all over the place with a slew of items.
I'm not saying they should remove white items from the game because they have no value. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have worthless runestones just as there are worthless items. (By "worthless", I mean worthless at end game).
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
"Our goal with the rune system has always been to provide additional character customization by allowing players to augment or completely alter their skills in new and significant ways. Originally, we tied this in to the itemization system because it felt like a good fit, as Diablo is all about the item drops. But with around 120 base skills, that meant there were around 600 rune variants; on top of that, each variant had five quality levels each, meaning ultimately there would be something like 3,000 different runes in the game… and we knew we were heading toward a problem."
Great, so now there is really no point to a rune system at all -- why not just remove runes all together and put new skills that work the exact same with the same names as the rune abilities in their place? It would be the exact same thing. Seriously, playing Diablo 3 where your class gets 20-some skills to choose from, each with 5 different extensions to those skills (~100 choices for those who aren't fond of math) is NO DIFFERENT than playing a game with a class that has 100-some skills to choose from...NO DIFFERENT. Granted this still leaves room for a lot of customization on the players part, but this ultimately feeds into people saying "Oh this build is by far the most effective. Let me swap my skills runes so I can match it!" instead of them saying, "Man, I wish I had that rune so I could be that badass!". To me, this is another change that rewards casual gamers...another kick in the teeth for those hardcore or elite types.
Seems that every time blizzard encounters a problem they take the easy road as of late. Their motto is quickly becoming, "If it presents a problem, dumb it down!"
To me, the game will still be enjoyable...just less rewarding.
Edit: Also, this seems to pretty much eliminate the point of using a skill as it were, without any rune. Why not just take those skills out and just use the 80-90 remaining "skill runes" as the skills to choose from? Makes sense, right?
you fail to see the positive side, lvl 30-59 you didnt find any runes that were worthwhile once you hit lvl 60 that rank 3 rune you had since hell will be dropped for a rank5 inferno rune, then within seconds that rank 6 then maybe a day or two that rank 7 rune, all those other runes wouldnt matter at all cuz you had the best version of that certain rune already, ultimately every other rune except rank 7 runes were useless cuz you wouldnt give two shits about them at lvl 60. there is no customization if you're just gunna have rank 7 indigo, rank 7 obsidion, rank 7 crimson.. etc.. sweet you could pick them up, picking up items doesnt distinguish you as a hardcore gamer lmao its how you use those items, i like the physical aspect of runes too but, you dont know what the game would have been like at inferno 4 months after release.. " OMGZZ ZZO MANI RUNES I HAVE ZEE ONEZ I WANT ALREDI NOT WORTH SHIT ON AH CUZ ERBODY HAS RANK 7 ALREADY" you'll either pick them up or leave them there, so think positive i feel your pain i love to find improvements of shit i had previously but if this is what is gunna help to release the game then so be it.
That's not necessarily the case. Blizzard stated that the low level runestones would have dropped a lot, but the higher ones would have been more scarce. It would have been the same as chasing the armor you need/want. The players who were more serious about it were successful, and the ones who were casual were not as successful. Both parties were satisfied.
Handouts in games that are about working to acquire things is lame, imho.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
So happy for this! There would have been countless of useless runestones that nobody would use just like in early diablo 2 with so many lower level runestones. They are opting to have a much more cleaner environment, and this makes perfect sense. It would be super annoying to have to wait to get the rune you want to socket your skill. Then to have to upgrade it.... that would suck!
If you actually understood the rune changes you wouldn't have said this because this "better" system actually does what you're complaining about. In the older system runes dropped like candy of all types, so it wasn't hard to find obsidian crimson or alabaster it was all equal. Now they FORCE YOU TO WAIT. So if anything you should be upset at the new design not the old one...
The reason the old system didn't work (and they undoubtedly figured this out in testing) is because level 60 players have absolutely no need for them anymore, but they continue to drop nevertheless. It's the same reason they got rid of identify scrolls. Once you had 50 of them (because too many dropped), there went another thing that drop that had NO VALUE!
Blizzard knows that this game is supposed to be designed for the level 60 characters. The end game is all that matters for those of us who will play this game for the next 5+ years. I don't want to have these damn items that have no value dropping all over the place and polluting my item game.
This is a silly argument, considering Blizzard just removed almost all value from white items. And that was what, two beta patches ago? They said themselves that having these items of no value remain in the game makes it all the more rewarding when you find the one that is really valuable.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Personally I think those changes are good. Especially I will be excited about every level up to 60 which is a huge improvement. And I feel that not having an inventory flooded by some dirty stones will be good as well. Good job, Blizzard.
Previously, excitement in the game would have looked like this:
Level 1-30: Obtaining new skills and finding new gear
Level 30-60: Finding new gear (with a little bit of new skills via runestones)
Level 60+: Obtaining runestones (new skills) and finding new gear
Now excitement in the game will look like this:
Level 1-60: Obtaining new skills and finding new gear
Level 60+: Finding new gear
The latter looks pretty familiar, huh?
Zzz. Lame.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Maybe they should give skill runes equivalent to what were previously rank4 runestones, and then have 3 additional ranks to increase the effects of these skill runes drop throughout the game?
Y/N?
Personally even I kind vote 'N' on this one. Just an idea.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
I'm not sure how finding 3,000 unique runes would be rewarding anyway. Just tedious and boring to get a single spell effect.
Even without the runestones you had your skills to play with (the ones handed to you), you just had one more thing to look forward to. Now you have your skills to play with (the ones handed to you), and one less thing to look forward to.
Which is better?
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Sorry can't comment, too busying DL'n the beta to play with skill runes!!!!! fuck yes, mr jay wilson. <3 you
Lol @ all these kids with beta access loving Jay Wilson and this change. OMG YAY! We get to try the runes now!!!
That's cool and all, but it's too bad the change takes away from the final version of the game. Enjoy your time playing while you can, your enjoyment will expire soon.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
.... Snowhammer... about 8 months ago when they announced abolition of the skill point, I freaked. You then successfully calmed me down and explained how the requirement to find & select runes will be the backbone of new character customization....
Please help me see the positive in this change...
It seems to me that with this change, gear is the only way to progress you character after having hit the level cap.
Show me the light at the end of the tunnel, please!!
Yes! Runestones seemed to be the only way (other than gear) to progress your character post level 60...Now it's going to be just like Diablo 2. We hit cap level, have our abilities we want to use, and farm the gear that we know is out there but can't seem to get our hands on. After you cap out your level, the game kind of loses it's excitement when it's like that.
It would have been so good to be max level, and still be able to look forward to obtaining new abilities. (I think that's one of the things that make Dark Age of Camelot so successful at end game -- because you would go pvp and get new abilities as the reward for your effort and success).
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
"Our goal with the rune system has always been to provide additional character customization by allowing players to augment or completely alter their skills in new and significant ways. Originally, we tied this in to the itemization system because it felt like a good fit, as Diablo is all about the item drops. But with around 120 base skills, that meant there were around 600 rune variants; on top of that, each variant had five quality levels each, meaning ultimately there would be something like 3,000 different runes in the game… and we knew we were heading toward a problem."
Great, so now there is really no point to a rune system at all -- why not just remove runes all together and put new skills that work the exact same with the same names as the rune abilities in their place? It would be the exact same thing. Seriously, playing Diablo 3 where your class gets 20-some skills to choose from, each with 5 different extensions to those skills (~100 choices for those who aren't fond of math) is NO DIFFERENT than playing a game with a class that has 100-some skills to choose from...NO DIFFERENT. Granted this still leaves room for a lot of customization on the players part, but this ultimately feeds into people saying "Oh this build is by far the most effective. Let me swap my skills runes so I can match it!" instead of them saying, "Man, I wish I had that rune so I could be that badass!". To me, this is another change that rewards casual gamers...another kick in the teeth for those hardcore or elite types.
Seems that every time blizzard encounters a problem they take the easy road as of late. Their motto is quickly becoming, "If it presents a problem, dumb it down!"
To me, the game will still be enjoyable...just less rewarding.
Edit: Also, this seems to pretty much eliminate the point of using a skill as it were, without any rune. Why not just take those skills out and just use the 80-90 remaining "skill runes" as the skills to choose from? Makes sense, right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
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What about the skill without a rune affix? Once you get that first skill rune unlocked for that skill, you will in all likelihood start using that rune on that skill, until you unlock a better one (one that more fits your playstyle). The base skills are useless once you have a rune unlocked for it.
I understand this is true in the old system too, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you'd find a rune that was worth putting into that skill. Now the decision seems kind of forced upon you, does it not?
I'm not saying they should remove white items from the game because they have no value. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have worthless runestones just as there are worthless items. (By "worthless", I mean worthless at end game).
That's not necessarily the case. Blizzard stated that the low level runestones would have dropped a lot, but the higher ones would have been more scarce. It would have been the same as chasing the armor you need/want. The players who were more serious about it were successful, and the ones who were casual were not as successful. Both parties were satisfied.
Handouts in games that are about working to acquire things is lame, imho.
This is a silly argument, considering Blizzard just removed almost all value from white items. And that was what, two beta patches ago? They said themselves that having these items of no value remain in the game makes it all the more rewarding when you find the one that is really valuable.
Lol yup, you now have the retail version of the game. That's it! They decided to dumb it down that much...
But on a serious note, yay? I have a feeling I'm going to be a little disappointed.
Previously, excitement in the game would have looked like this:
Level 1-30: Obtaining new skills and finding new gear
Level 30-60: Finding new gear (with a little bit of new skills via runestones)
Level 60+: Obtaining runestones (new skills) and finding new gear
Now excitement in the game will look like this:
Level 1-60: Obtaining new skills and finding new gear
Level 60+: Finding new gear
The latter looks pretty familiar, huh?
Zzz. Lame.
Y/N?
Personally even I kind vote 'N' on this one. Just an idea.
Even without the runestones you had your skills to play with (the ones handed to you), you just had one more thing to look forward to. Now you have your skills to play with (the ones handed to you), and one less thing to look forward to.
Which is better?
Lol @ all these kids with beta access loving Jay Wilson and this change. OMG YAY! We get to try the runes now!!!
That's cool and all, but it's too bad the change takes away from the final version of the game. Enjoy your time playing while you can, your enjoyment will expire soon.
Yes! Runestones seemed to be the only way (other than gear) to progress your character post level 60...Now it's going to be just like Diablo 2. We hit cap level, have our abilities we want to use, and farm the gear that we know is out there but can't seem to get our hands on. After you cap out your level, the game kind of loses it's excitement when it's like that.
It would have been so good to be max level, and still be able to look forward to obtaining new abilities. (I think that's one of the things that make Dark Age of Camelot so successful at end game -- because you would go pvp and get new abilities as the reward for your effort and success).
"Our goal with the rune system has always been to provide additional character customization by allowing players to augment or completely alter their skills in new and significant ways. Originally, we tied this in to the itemization system because it felt like a good fit, as Diablo is all about the item drops. But with around 120 base skills, that meant there were around 600 rune variants; on top of that, each variant had five quality levels each, meaning ultimately there would be something like 3,000 different runes in the game… and we knew we were heading toward a problem."
Great, so now there is really no point to a rune system at all -- why not just remove runes all together and put new skills that work the exact same with the same names as the rune abilities in their place? It would be the exact same thing. Seriously, playing Diablo 3 where your class gets 20-some skills to choose from, each with 5 different extensions to those skills (~100 choices for those who aren't fond of math) is NO DIFFERENT than playing a game with a class that has 100-some skills to choose from...NO DIFFERENT. Granted this still leaves room for a lot of customization on the players part, but this ultimately feeds into people saying "Oh this build is by far the most effective. Let me swap my skills runes so I can match it!" instead of them saying, "Man, I wish I had that rune so I could be that badass!". To me, this is another change that rewards casual gamers...another kick in the teeth for those hardcore or elite types.
Seems that every time blizzard encounters a problem they take the easy road as of late. Their motto is quickly becoming, "If it presents a problem, dumb it down!"
To me, the game will still be enjoyable...just less rewarding.
Edit: Also, this seems to pretty much eliminate the point of using a skill as it were, without any rune. Why not just take those skills out and just use the 80-90 remaining "skill runes" as the skills to choose from? Makes sense, right?