I so sick of this crap. I do not see what there is to whine about.
This is a gothic Cathedral. I will be pleasantly surprised if more than 5 people here are aware of this fact.
This is one of, if not the most gothic looking buildings I have ever seen. It has actually been lit up so it looks like it did 800 years ago. But it would have looked liked that in the 13th Century.
and here is a gothic dungeon.
Now might I ask why the image you just filled the screen was relevant... at all..
You would completely convince me to sign the petition if by some chance you could show an example of a dark part of the game. Like the Assault Beast in the background. That's the only thing I'm worried about with the petition pictures. Everything seems darker, which is fine for the pictures but what about parts of the game that are ALREADY dark.
I don't like the blue/green lighting but I do want to see things that are happening in the background, foreground (ghouls climbing the platform), and things ahead of me.
I was thinking about doing some more images, and maybe polishing that one a bit so I will take what you said into consideration and probably do ones like you suggested if I do more. However to me the solution seems simple enough, if you have a destructible wall, put a couple of torches on the pillars beside it, not only illuminating it but also drawing extra visual attention to it. If you have a looming monster in the dark, have it pass under a candelabra, or a shaft of blue/green lighting coming from a shaft above, looming in and out of the darkness looks good. If you have ghouls climbing walls place a few strategically placed torches on the walls so they are illuminated as they pass by, but aren't constantly bathed in light. To me catching glimpses or short views of something coming towards me is a lot more un-nerving than watching it steadily advance in full light. But yes, images or even videos would obviously illustrate this better.
However having said all that and that it is possible I am a fan of the light radius, and ghouls climbing walls doesn't work with the old light radius system, but hey I could live just fine without light radius if the environments were at least spooky.
and thanks Blizter, I am no Blizzard dev though thats for sure and that image could no doubt look a lot better, just to get an idea across I guess.
Hah, you got me, the lion statue is in there too. I am a 3d artist and yep, sorry to say that it isn't a real game but a 3d render. I will point out though that those are all low poly models with very low res textures and are designed to be game assets and would easily fit within Blizzards guidelines on making it run on old machines. Hell there is barely more poly's in there than 3 of HL2's alyx models standing side by side.
Sigh, unfortunate because you seem to have some aversion to natural colors in a realistic environment?
The light isn't directly neon green in shade, if the whole place was lit by neon green lights then it would look a lot more, well, green. However there is yellow and blue light there too, it all adds to the color, and the term neon keeps getting used because its so damn bright and so saturated.
You would think that neon light on pavement looks like the tombs in D3. Totally different shades of green for someone who isn't color blind (of course I did cut out an eye). I like how even visual proof isn't enough for people. Shows us where their minds are.
Oh ffs, do you know anything about color? yeah maybe if the pavement was painted white you would get the same hue, but the world is full of browns and grays and diffuse lighting unfortunately for you.
I am sorry, but common, don't be silly. You show a picture of an incandescent tube and a picture of D3, go outside, go clubbing, have a look what a pavement below the light looks like when it is illuminated by neon lighting then come back to me and see why your wrong.
Ok - if even one more of you people says that there is NEON LIGHT blazing through out the tombs I'm going to cut your face and put you out on the street.
There isn't neon light anywhere in the tomb. That is hyperbole so that you have something to complain about. End of story.
I think the light never came across to me as weird unless I sat there and overanalyzed it like some obsessive nut. My first impression was that it was creepy in those tombs. That was it. I submitted to the fantasy they've created. The head of Art Direction even stated that they intentionally made the light UNATURAL in order to better immerse us into the world. The light doesn't fragment into perfect, fragmented lines intentionally they said. I have to agree with them on this one.
Gee, nice. I just started looking through the trailer again and what do you know, most of it looks like there is some seedy neon sign hanging just off screen miraculously illuminating everything, guess you should come cut my face now. Green does work well as a creepy color but not if its bright green that illuminates everything more than the actual lighting in the area.
Corwyn,
I hope you get what I'm saying because this is what I mean by people not knowing the difference between stylized and cartoony:
The table has big features and is at an angle which makes you think it is lower than it really is. Tables can be designed this way even in real life. But the features are NOT exaggerated or bubbly. They are big and stylized so that they read well on screen and lend themselves to a weighted, epic look. And that's exactly what Blizz has been saying all along about their design choices. It's solid game making and it does have a realism to it, though it is also a bit surreal at the same time in order to pull you into the fantasy they've created.
Look at the table in the foreground and tell me that she can't sit in it. Just because it's not hyper-photo realistic doesn't mean that it isn't realistic. If you need to look up what Stylized means then please do. Understanding that will open a whole new world for you.
Sigh, what is cartoon like to you? to me its almost exactly what you described, over emphasized big, chunky and solid shapes. I know what Stylization is, I have done graphic design, but mainly I am a 3d modeler and work on games and I can tell you right now that her legs aint gonna fit. As I said before I have no problem with Stylization, clumsy ugly Stylization akin to Warcraft however I find highly unappealing and something that doesn't befit the Diablo universe. I can see where blizzard is coming from with the whole make things chunky to make it visible from the camera angle but seriously they took it wayyy to far.
Thanks for the Chance!!!
As for the tables and chairs comment - I really wonder how much you really know about design when you make comments like this. The table and chairs, first of all, are in proportion. What others have mention and I suppose you are talking about is that the table has "fat" legs. Fat legs on a table doesn't make them cartoony. Many chairs and tables have ALL kinds of designs and yes, tables/chairs in real life can have big fat legs on them! Some designers design totally weird tables and chairs that are still functional! You should know this. And did you even watch the video where the D3 art director explains why they used Big bold shapes? Watch it and think it through from a designers standpoint INSTEAD of the standpoint that you want the Diablo francise to remain the same thing over and over (which is odd to me because D2 changed the game and made the world grow and added a lot of color to the game and people loved it!)
I will respond to the rest later, but this comment is really terrible, how much WE know about design? maybe you should consider how much you do, because just take a look at this image.
Then tell me honestly that the table is of any sort of "realistic" design, it barely even qualifies as a table, that girl right there couldn't even sit in the seat and put her legs under it. the table's top is almost as thick as the legs are high! It looks like a lego model. The table and chairs are clearly NOT "in proportion". It IS cartoon like, if you have any training in this sort of stuff you surely must be able to see something as basic as that.
Imagine you've made some pieces of art. Years later you make another piece of art. Suddenly a fan of your work says, "You can't make art that looks like that!!! That's not YOUR style! You need to go back to you OLD style! That style is more your style than this new style!"
Ridiculous isn't it? Someone telling you not only that you need to stick to your old style, but they are audacious enough to tell you what your style is! What nonsense, right?
This analogy doesn't really work, the art in the case of Diablo is one part of a whole world and background. Its more like an artist creating artwork that perfectly suits a series of dark dungeon crawler books, who then decides he doesn't like the style he captured so perfectly before and wants to add flowers, rainbows and cutely proportioned rounded environments. The fans of the book then say wtf are you doing, because it doesn't match the content anymore.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You can appeal to the "Why not?" arguement, to which I say: Why not let Blizz make some of the armor sets big and fantasy-like? Some people out there will like them!
The problem with your argument for me is that it comes down to your personal taste. You think a certain gargoyle looks better on a staircase than the one in the game? Whoop-de-shit. That's a nit picky, lame, personal preference and DOES NOT reflect the game as a whole. This who complaint about Diablo 3's style has gone too far and it is no wonder that myself and many others are poking fun at people who are crying for such inane changes with nearly nonsensical reasons for thier back up.
Once again, all I can say is that the Diablo setting was not originally "high fantasy", it is now becoming so and people don't like it. The problem is that that Gargoyle is just one part of many things that make up the scene, take a look and the supposed Tristram dungeon set. Have a look at the tables with their hugely oversize legs and toy like looks. have a look at the chairs with the look of some sort of bizarre deck chair. have a look at the weird lighting pieces that look like they were pulled from some art deco dukebox. Have a real good look at some of that content making up the scene and tell me that it helps make up a dark and creepy dungeon.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it is odd to say things like "Make it more realistic! Make it more scary!" What's scary to people is subjective as hell. What's realistic to people is also. Make it more X and Y! I'm tired of you telling us what is realistic to YOU in a fantasy game. Either enjoy the FANTASY of the game or deal with shoulder pads that are too big for YOUR personal taste.
Scary is not really subjective, it may vary slightly from one person to another, but people will generally find "alien" scary and "Bambi" not scary. What they have is definitely not considered creepy or scary by most, as I said earlier a lot of the props making the scene look like toys and the whole place is floodlit with green. It's scary in the sort of way that children's movies represent scary.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You must really love Blizz and their games to pick at whether or not armor works when some one bends their body. There is no way in hell that Blizz made their armor so ridiculous that it needs your input to help make it more "Diablo".
Subjective, I find it so ugly it will stop me being enthused by the character appearance, but thats personal opinion. However once again I will say its not just about the gargoyle or the armor.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
You need to think these comments out more. They make little to no sense. What do you mean?
He means that noone complained in these forums before D3 was announced saying "Diablo's look sucked, please make D3 look more like Warcraft Blizzard", so why fix what isn't broken. Not sure if you really missed the point though or if your being stubborn, it was obvious enough to me.
Quote from "Creepsville" »
This is the argument of a demented child. Learn to comprehend and drop the BS attacks and try to have a big boy conversation.
Again, I am pretty sure he means that it is unreasonable that you disagree with change when you are actually agreeing with the previous change, ie the change that took place between D2 and D3.
Thanks Corwyn. I want to respond to your thought out points.
Nah. I chose to use an image to make the comic faster. It basically relates to my time in the day and the comic was only a quick joke anyway so an image was appropriate.
On the shoulder pads - I feel that big shoulder pads not only give a character more presence and a powerful look, but they lend themselves well to fantasy games. I feel that realism is in no way the bread and butter of the Diablo series so it seems odd to me that so many people dislike the shoulder pads. I feel the other Diablo games weren't as focused on realism as people make out. I think that Diablo 3 will have all kinds of armor in it and shouldn't be limited to a specific type that inhibits the fantasy of it all.
While I think it's being picky, I see your point. I do think that the gargoyle looks fine, and doesn't appear "cute" like some say. It actually looks kinds hand carved and primitive and seems to have it's own style - which is still dark in my book. If it had big googly eyes I would see your point more though. Heh.
I guess our opinions differ on the matter of shoulder armor then! I like the idea of a stylized look for Diablo, I think stylization can immerse people even more in media and I think that when done right it almost makes scenes more real than reality. A painted and stylized look for Diablo doesn't bother me at all, I don't want it to look like Crysis. However I just think that shoulder armor in that style looks downright silly, I have no problem with big shoulder pads, its the overall feel and silhouette of the warcraft like designs that it my opinion fail for the Diablo setting.
Here is a super quick sketch (sorry for poor quality), to me one of these characters looks goofy, unbalanced and hunch backed, whereas one displays the typical look of a "hero" figure, broad shoulders and triangular torso, the figure of a warrior. The hunch backed look even appears in bioshock, very suitably placed on an extremely stupid, bulky and fairly clumsy character that is only good at bashing things. This look is to me (and probably many others) not associated with a skilled warrior.
I never said anything like that. I actually explained many posts ago, after I was accused of having no understanding of art direction, that I did have some experience and training in art. I've done some graphic design and I'm a film major currently. I never said that it means I win at anything, silly pants. I think having a background in art does help though and the main reason I said it was so that people knew that my statements were coming from an educated source.
The big picture? Ok. I think what I meant when I said "the big picture" was that we have not seen most of the game yet so anything calling for it to be changed can be construed as premature.
Anyone else in line to throw down the gauntlet with me? Hehe.
I'd rather ask those who want a change in D3:
- Why does shrinking down a pair of shoulder pads on a Barbarian make the game more "Diablo"?
- How does changing the way a gargoyle on the railing of a staircase looks make a game more "Diablo"?
Ok first off, apologies for my post earlier, it came across like I was calling you an idiotic 12 year old when that wasn't my intention at all. I guess my point was that you are using phrases that a certain group of rather hated people use. I and many others are sick of the people who actually genuinely seem to think the petition can be solved by desaturating your monitor and calling anyone who signed an emo that should go put some eyeliner on. You are or were fairly new here and may genuinely been intending it as a joke, knowing that the solutions in the comic were silly, but that was what was meant to make it funny.
You are also right that it takes a little longer draw an image than find it, took me about 15 mins to rough a scene out like that, but still being an artist I would still have just drawn it myself than find an image. Perhaps if the comic wasn't worth the time to draw it wasn't worth making?
The shoulder pads: It makes it more similar to the older games that had a more realistic tone to them, particularly in the armor. (and please don't spout the old "but D2 had big shoulder pads", it did but they didn't cover the characters eyesight and they were big because back then they had limited pixels to work with in-game. The Armor in the inventory is the stuff you should be looking at, and its overall very realistic.
The gargoyle: The Tristram Cathedral was a Gothic place (yes I know the whole game wasn't), the video supposedly used the same tileset as the D3 tristram cathedral however, the most Gothic themed place in the game now looks like a high fantasy version of Bioshock and that statue is nothing like a Gargoyle and frankly looks like a warcraft model.
Firstly, Corwyn - I took an image and photoshopped it in about 5 minutes and you think it's odd that I didn't spend a couple hours drawing it? So I must not be a comic book artist? Well deduced Sherlock.
I am a fairly average drawer and it would take me minutes to rough out a couple of characters in photoshop using my tablet, barely longer than it would take to find an image. If I were practiced at it it would be much faster to draw some quick characters in a rough manner than find the image. A couple of hours? I think not.
Anyhow, not like it matters, your "joke" got old after the first bunch of idiotic 12 year olds spouted it. Plenty around here are really sick of hearing the same idiots saying the petition is about black and white color and thinking the term Gothic means black lipstick and eyeliner.
That's ok if you think that. However, I'm an educated graphic designer and film maker. I'm a comic book artist, and I do concept work and character designs as a hobby. I'm also a writer who is working with an artist on a comic I wrote and I am hands on in the art direction.
And you do what again?
I find that unlikely, but if you are you are a bit of an ignorant jerk considering your meant to have an education in this sort of thing. Even someone with absolutely no education on the matter should be smart enough to see that they HAVE changed the style and they HAVE taken inspiration from the style from Warcraft and that its totally reasonable that some people aren't going to be happy about it. If you had loyal fans of a Comic book series that you made and one day changed the whole look of it for a style totally un-befitting of the content would you expect to lose sales and piss people off? surely yes?
BTW, for someone who is a graphic designer and draws comic book art it seems a little odd that you would take some stupid image off the net rather than draw your own characters for a comic piece, it should take you longer to look up pictures like that than to whip out a quick character sketch if your practiced at it, or perhaps you don't draw at all?
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and here is a gothic dungeon.
Now might I ask why the image you just filled the screen was relevant... at all..
I was thinking about doing some more images, and maybe polishing that one a bit so I will take what you said into consideration and probably do ones like you suggested if I do more. However to me the solution seems simple enough, if you have a destructible wall, put a couple of torches on the pillars beside it, not only illuminating it but also drawing extra visual attention to it. If you have a looming monster in the dark, have it pass under a candelabra, or a shaft of blue/green lighting coming from a shaft above, looming in and out of the darkness looks good. If you have ghouls climbing walls place a few strategically placed torches on the walls so they are illuminated as they pass by, but aren't constantly bathed in light. To me catching glimpses or short views of something coming towards me is a lot more un-nerving than watching it steadily advance in full light. But yes, images or even videos would obviously illustrate this better.
However having said all that and that it is possible I am a fan of the light radius, and ghouls climbing walls doesn't work with the old light radius system, but hey I could live just fine without light radius if the environments were at least spooky.
and thanks Blizter, I am no Blizzard dev though thats for sure and that image could no doubt look a lot better, just to get an idea across I guess.
Hah, you got me, the lion statue is in there too. I am a 3d artist and yep, sorry to say that it isn't a real game but a 3d render. I will point out though that those are all low poly models with very low res textures and are designed to be game assets and would easily fit within Blizzards guidelines on making it run on old machines. Hell there is barely more poly's in there than 3 of HL2's alyx models standing side by side.
-edit- may have broken the page for those without widescreen, will make a thumbnail shortly.
The light isn't directly neon green in shade, if the whole place was lit by neon green lights then it would look a lot more, well, green. However there is yellow and blue light there too, it all adds to the color, and the term neon keeps getting used because its so damn bright and so saturated.
Oh ffs, do you know anything about color? yeah maybe if the pavement was painted white you would get the same hue, but the world is full of browns and grays and diffuse lighting unfortunately for you.
Gee, nice. I just started looking through the trailer again and what do you know, most of it looks like there is some seedy neon sign hanging just off screen miraculously illuminating everything, guess you should come cut my face now. Green does work well as a creepy color but not if its bright green that illuminates everything more than the actual lighting in the area.
Sigh, what is cartoon like to you? to me its almost exactly what you described, over emphasized big, chunky and solid shapes. I know what Stylization is, I have done graphic design, but mainly I am a 3d modeler and work on games and I can tell you right now that her legs aint gonna fit. As I said before I have no problem with Stylization, clumsy ugly Stylization akin to Warcraft however I find highly unappealing and something that doesn't befit the Diablo universe. I can see where blizzard is coming from with the whole make things chunky to make it visible from the camera angle but seriously they took it wayyy to far.
I will respond to the rest later, but this comment is really terrible, how much WE know about design? maybe you should consider how much you do, because just take a look at this image.
Then tell me honestly that the table is of any sort of "realistic" design, it barely even qualifies as a table, that girl right there couldn't even sit in the seat and put her legs under it. the table's top is almost as thick as the legs are high! It looks like a lego model. The table and chairs are clearly NOT "in proportion". It IS cartoon like, if you have any training in this sort of stuff you surely must be able to see something as basic as that.
Once again, all I can say is that the Diablo setting was not originally "high fantasy", it is now becoming so and people don't like it. The problem is that that Gargoyle is just one part of many things that make up the scene, take a look and the supposed Tristram dungeon set. Have a look at the tables with their hugely oversize legs and toy like looks. have a look at the chairs with the look of some sort of bizarre deck chair. have a look at the weird lighting pieces that look like they were pulled from some art deco dukebox. Have a real good look at some of that content making up the scene and tell me that it helps make up a dark and creepy dungeon.
Scary is not really subjective, it may vary slightly from one person to another, but people will generally find "alien" scary and "Bambi" not scary. What they have is definitely not considered creepy or scary by most, as I said earlier a lot of the props making the scene look like toys and the whole place is floodlit with green. It's scary in the sort of way that children's movies represent scary.
Subjective, I find it so ugly it will stop me being enthused by the character appearance, but thats personal opinion. However once again I will say its not just about the gargoyle or the armor.
He means that noone complained in these forums before D3 was announced saying "Diablo's look sucked, please make D3 look more like Warcraft Blizzard", so why fix what isn't broken. Not sure if you really missed the point though or if your being stubborn, it was obvious enough to me.
Again, I am pretty sure he means that it is unreasonable that you disagree with change when you are actually agreeing with the previous change, ie the change that took place between D2 and D3.
I guess our opinions differ on the matter of shoulder armor then! I like the idea of a stylized look for Diablo, I think stylization can immerse people even more in media and I think that when done right it almost makes scenes more real than reality. A painted and stylized look for Diablo doesn't bother me at all, I don't want it to look like Crysis. However I just think that shoulder armor in that style looks downright silly, I have no problem with big shoulder pads, its the overall feel and silhouette of the warcraft like designs that it my opinion fail for the Diablo setting.
Here is a super quick sketch (sorry for poor quality), to me one of these characters looks goofy, unbalanced and hunch backed, whereas one displays the typical look of a "hero" figure, broad shoulders and triangular torso, the figure of a warrior. The hunch backed look even appears in bioshock, very suitably placed on an extremely stupid, bulky and fairly clumsy character that is only good at bashing things. This look is to me (and probably many others) not associated with a skilled warrior.
Ok first off, apologies for my post earlier, it came across like I was calling you an idiotic 12 year old when that wasn't my intention at all. I guess my point was that you are using phrases that a certain group of rather hated people use. I and many others are sick of the people who actually genuinely seem to think the petition can be solved by desaturating your monitor and calling anyone who signed an emo that should go put some eyeliner on. You are or were fairly new here and may genuinely been intending it as a joke, knowing that the solutions in the comic were silly, but that was what was meant to make it funny.
You are also right that it takes a little longer draw an image than find it, took me about 15 mins to rough a scene out like that, but still being an artist I would still have just drawn it myself than find an image. Perhaps if the comic wasn't worth the time to draw it wasn't worth making?
The shoulder pads: It makes it more similar to the older games that had a more realistic tone to them, particularly in the armor. (and please don't spout the old "but D2 had big shoulder pads", it did but they didn't cover the characters eyesight and they were big because back then they had limited pixels to work with in-game. The Armor in the inventory is the stuff you should be looking at, and its overall very realistic.
The gargoyle: The Tristram Cathedral was a Gothic place (yes I know the whole game wasn't), the video supposedly used the same tileset as the D3 tristram cathedral however, the most Gothic themed place in the game now looks like a high fantasy version of Bioshock and that statue is nothing like a Gargoyle and frankly looks like a warcraft model.
I am a fairly average drawer and it would take me minutes to rough out a couple of characters in photoshop using my tablet, barely longer than it would take to find an image. If I were practiced at it it would be much faster to draw some quick characters in a rough manner than find the image. A couple of hours? I think not.
Anyhow, not like it matters, your "joke" got old after the first bunch of idiotic 12 year olds spouted it. Plenty around here are really sick of hearing the same idiots saying the petition is about black and white color and thinking the term Gothic means black lipstick and eyeliner.
I find that unlikely, but if you are you are a bit of an ignorant jerk considering your meant to have an education in this sort of thing. Even someone with absolutely no education on the matter should be smart enough to see that they HAVE changed the style and they HAVE taken inspiration from the style from Warcraft and that its totally reasonable that some people aren't going to be happy about it. If you had loyal fans of a Comic book series that you made and one day changed the whole look of it for a style totally un-befitting of the content would you expect to lose sales and piss people off? surely yes?
BTW, for someone who is a graphic designer and draws comic book art it seems a little odd that you would take some stupid image off the net rather than draw your own characters for a comic piece, it should take you longer to look up pictures like that than to whip out a quick character sketch if your practiced at it, or perhaps you don't draw at all?