I like the idea of this build, and your writeup/explanation is fantastic and detailed. I toyed around with glacial spike + mirrorball a while ago, and while glacial spike obviously does not pierce, the damage was still respectable, and I remember there being a small amount of AOE from glacial spike.
In any case, I did notice you don't take any CDR at all, not even passives. Does the huge archon downtime get annoying?
Stash space is the one thing in the game I would seriously be willing to fork out extra money as a micro transaction for (and I barely used the RMAH because I dislike the idea of in game transactions).
All crafting mats, including the legendary ones should go. More tabs is an almost absolute must have though I feel. I knew it would be hard to keep different gear sets for different builds, but as an altoholic, I've now moved any non-Crusader items to those classes so I've got three tabs purely for my Crusader (main) gear!
I'd like to see two bonus tabs for gold (even if 100mill total cost to unlock them). And then another full page of 6 tabs that you buy for a few bucks a piece. Either that or a second stash purely for that character. One account bound, one character bound. That'll do me.
Did you seriously just encourage Blizzard to add micro transactions to D3? Are you high?
The way D3 is going right now, kiting is not efficient. It's fastest to kill everything in your area and keep going forward, or at least stand your ground. It's not efficient to hit a mob, stutter step backward for 3 whole screens so it doesn't hit you, then have to retrace your steps all the way back just to get to where you were before. Now if you're saying that that's not how D3 is meant to be played (no kiting and just killing), then that's a whole different story. I take D3 for what it is.
I'm not saying DHs are meant to play exactly like every other class. On the contrary, my DH does NOT feel like my cm wiz, my ww barb, my TR monk, or my firebats WD. If you choose to go into higher MPs than your gear allows and force yourself to facetank every elite and mob that comes your way, then that's your choice. If you choose to play at an appropriate gear / MP level which facilitates efficient killing, that's my choice.
Lastly, all of this discussion seems to forget group play entirely. I'll admit, I don't play solo with my DH very often. When I get into a group with a decent comp (monk vac and/or cmww wiz), I can stand at a safe distance pewpewing and laying spike traps from afar. I rarely if ever have to worry about facetanking in a group (less than 5% of the time), but if it happens, I know I can pop SP:Gloom and rapid fire to my heart's content, or vault across poison/fire pools and get to safety.
Havent checked the manticore and dml market lately since im pretty much done with my dh for the moment. I might play her again when blizzard "fixes" the class. So i guess you could be right in terms of budget. Still if you blow lets say 500mil on a single ls monk with high ehp you will end up with a set that outfarms a 2bil dh pretty easy. Again not talking about barbs. On certain levels of gear classes should perform kinda the same which is not the case. For me it seems blizzard devs still think that range classes kite away mobs like they did in early inferno which is not reality anymore.
ATM all decent class builds(wiz/wd/dh) aiming for "face tanking". If i log on a dh i dont wanne play a "melee tank vers. 2.0". Im using range weapons for a reason. I want to kite and kill mobs on range. With the skills currently availible its kinda possible but no where near as efficient as going for the "face tank build(s)". Playing a different class should feel different and not like "oh i just use different spells but im doing pretty much the same like with a monk".
In regards to nightstalker. Imo its kinda broken when you have to rely on "big packs" to have enough disc regen. Sure the "new" mob density helps alot but as soon as the trash is cleared and you are facing only 1 or 2 left over ranged elites most people will feel the difference. As a monk you have no issue to maintain enough spirit even vs. single target. As a barb you can hota pretty much for free even vs. single target. Same goes for cm/ww. You still have plenty arcane power vs single target. On the other hand a dh or batdoc gets trouble to keep up the ressources.
Sure builds arent ment to be the "jack of all trades" but feeling totaly underpowered when facing certain elite affixes/mob types is just some sort of bad class balance.
At MP10, all classes need to facetank at one point or another in order to maintain efficient farming, except to some extent cmww wizards (perma frozen). It's simply impossible for most classes, ranged included, to kill elites at mp10 that quickly... most elites run up to you. If they have the "Fast" affix? They are on you in 1 second. So how do you maximize dps? Stand your ground, using offensive abilities, without retreating.
I'm not sure that complaining about facetanking as a DH is a valid approach. Do you expect DHs to be able to kill elites at mp10, even at BIS gear levels, before they get 1 hit on you? How overpowered would that be, no class can do that now.
A simple solution, turn down MP so you can play and kill everything at range without kiting.
Every class has a way to move faster without having to sacrifice a passive slot. DHs have to take tactical advantage and then take either vault or smokescreen (or both) to benefit from a speed increase. And this is very discipline heavy.
Compare that to sprinting barbs or tempest rush monks. Or teleporting wizs.
As a DH, I take Vault - ToC. It provides me with both mobility and some kiting DPS. I don't take tactical advantage. I take Night Stalker, and with my gear (57% crit) I never run short of disc.
Although I have to admit, at mp6-7, I don't have to kite much at all, so with good spike trap placement, the DH still plays like a 'ranged class' to me.
Its because of the reward factor. I say they should remove that all together. Its the same reason why people join public games for the bonus and then go off sololing.
IF blizzard just implemented MP levels without bonus's then you get those people saying its just not efficient to play. As if D3 is some sort of full time job.that requires people to play at the highest difficulty with the most minimal amounts of effort.
If removing bonuses = people complaining it's not efficient to play, why would blizzard make such a move? That's not a valid solution because it would never happen. Why would anyone in their right mind play mp10 when you could do the same things on mp0 for the same reward?
I simply don't get why mp10 is a standard for anything. Sure it provides the highest bonus rewards, percentage-wise, but unless you are killing things at mp10 quickly (elites in less than 20 sec), you would be better served playing at mp6-8... killing 3x more monsters at 50% less bonus still = 150% the efficiency, etc...
In fact I would say my 200k dps DH farms mp6-7 faster than all of my other toons, except my 330k dps archon wizard. Each class must be played to their own strengths.
The thing I don't get is why is MP10 the 'standard' for gameplay? If the MP I am playing at is not efficient for farming or kill speed, I turn it down, no matter which class I play.
MP6-8 seems just about right for my DH (200k damage). And my DH is just as fast at mp6-8 as my p100 cm/ww wiz, or ww barb (170k dps). Perhaps my WD (160k dps firebats/COB build) would be faster.
I suppose my wiz, barb, and wd can all go mp10 without much issue, while it would feel slow on my dh.
Still, point being, if it feels like your efficiency is low at a certain MP, just turn it down... and you may start enjoying playing the game again.
For the past half year, I've leveled my wizard to P100. I heard and read online so many complaints from DHs being underpowered that eventually I started leaving any mp8-mp10 public games that had demon hunters in them. I tried avoiding inviting DHs to MP10 ubers groups. I pretty much thought they're worthless. Useless members.
Having leveled all 5 classes to 60, demon hunter being the last, I have to say that I'm surprised at how fun the DH seems so far. My gear sucks, mostly borrowed gear from my other toons, but I melt any mobs/elites quickly and efficiently at mp6 with 200k dps. The only time I die is when I forget to refresh SP: Gloom, which is the result of needing to refine my game skills. I have great mobility with vault. Amazing AOE with bola shot, spike trap, and rapid fire. Not to mention the ability to facetank any mob with SP: Gloom. I turned it up to mp10 just to see what happens, and I can still kill any normal mobs somewhat efficiently, while elite mobs do take a long time (although they do go down). Again, my gear is not that great, so I think it's reasonable I can't farm mp10 till later.
Lastly, I don't get why so many are upset with SP: Gloom and Spike Trap. I love those abilities. I never die with SP: Gloom, and Spike Trap does huge burst damage. Is it because the abilities seem "required" and instead players want "choice?" I guess coming from a wizard whose only choices were CM:WW or Archon, I have to say I am having fun doing more than mindlessly mashing the same buttons over and over again. My DH will probably be my new main along with my WD.
TLDR: I think DHs are so-so. Not terrible. Not great. Probably could use a small buff, but not entirely underpowered as seems to be the average opinion.
I always wondered, can players have lots of UNID legendaries, copy their account over to PTR, ID them all to see which ones are the good ones, then sell the bad ones?
That's pretty much made me not want to ever buy UNID legendaries.
To put it briefly, adding +% to skills to dropped items would make itemization a nightmare.
Imagine how many skills there are in the game. Then imagine how many different ways items can roll. Then imagine how hard it would be to find an item that has your desired stats (str, vit, IAS, crit%, AND specific barb-related +skill%). It would be virtually impossible to find items like this. Imagine getting shoulders with 300 str, 150 vit, 80 AR, +250 armor, and +10% bonus damage to energy twister (wizard). Just... no. There are what... over a hundred active skills. That means if you are going for a specific +%skill "build," and find a good item, you have less than a 1% chance of that item being relevant to your "build."
It would be more rare than rolling current trifectas.
Perhaps if the Mystic is added back into the game, you can use the mystic to imbue items with power and give it a random %chance of a specific skill. Say you select your item and choose "fists of thunder." The mystic would then imbue items with a random +%skill for fists of thunder. Items can be un-imbued for a certain penalty (gold? reagents? both?) to ensure that you can't just keep re-imbuing items till infinity before getting perfect rolls.
Welcome to max level wizard! I've tried both specs and if I were to start over and choose one spec, I would choose archon. CMWW is great and all, especially for higher MPs, but the amount of stress it puts on my hands / fingers / wrists is simply not worth it... I can barely farm 2-3 consecutive ubers mp10 runs without feeling like my arms are going stiff. I also don't want to damage my laptop keyboard with constant button mashing.
Archon will allow you to casually go through lower MPs without much stress at all. A 100m budget should get you a set to farm mp2-4 very efficiently. Personally, I farm mp6-7 with 330k dps very quickly (trash dies in 1 second, elites die in 3-5 seconds). With my set, I can jump into mp8 public games and find myself carrying other undergeared players without a problem.
If you really want to farm higher MPs, you can always form a cheapo CMWW set by using your archon set and buying a few key CMWW pieces for less than 5m gold.
I think the logical choice would be to buy maybe 2-3 different item upgrades at the same time (unless it's an obvious direct upgrade, such as a better witching hour).
Often when upgarding gear, you are forced to make tradeoffs between pieces (AKA, if I drop this piece, I gain 10k damage, but lose 5k health and 50 all resist, etc). If you set a reasonable budget for yourself and instead aim for obtaining 2-3 different pieces, you can afford to lose 50 all resist and 5k health on one piece because you'll be gaining 70 all resist, +150 armor, and 4k health on another piece.
Then once you get past 200k (especially 300k), you basically need some of the best possible items to start gaining damage/EHP... which honestly starts sucking real bad.
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In any case, I did notice you don't take any CDR at all, not even passives. Does the huge archon downtime get annoying?
I'm not saying DHs are meant to play exactly like every other class. On the contrary, my DH does NOT feel like my cm wiz, my ww barb, my TR monk, or my firebats WD. If you choose to go into higher MPs than your gear allows and force yourself to facetank every elite and mob that comes your way, then that's your choice. If you choose to play at an appropriate gear / MP level which facilitates efficient killing, that's my choice.
Lastly, all of this discussion seems to forget group play entirely. I'll admit, I don't play solo with my DH very often. When I get into a group with a decent comp (monk vac and/or cmww wiz), I can stand at a safe distance pewpewing and laying spike traps from afar. I rarely if ever have to worry about facetanking in a group (less than 5% of the time), but if it happens, I know I can pop SP:Gloom and rapid fire to my heart's content, or vault across poison/fire pools and get to safety.
At MP10, all classes need to facetank at one point or another in order to maintain efficient farming, except to some extent cmww wizards (perma frozen). It's simply impossible for most classes, ranged included, to kill elites at mp10 that quickly... most elites run up to you. If they have the "Fast" affix? They are on you in 1 second. So how do you maximize dps? Stand your ground, using offensive abilities, without retreating.
I'm not sure that complaining about facetanking as a DH is a valid approach. Do you expect DHs to be able to kill elites at mp10, even at BIS gear levels, before they get 1 hit on you? How overpowered would that be, no class can do that now.
A simple solution, turn down MP so you can play and kill everything at range without kiting.
As a DH, I take Vault - ToC. It provides me with both mobility and some kiting DPS. I don't take tactical advantage. I take Night Stalker, and with my gear (57% crit) I never run short of disc.
Although I have to admit, at mp6-7, I don't have to kite much at all, so with good spike trap placement, the DH still plays like a 'ranged class' to me.
If removing bonuses = people complaining it's not efficient to play, why would blizzard make such a move? That's not a valid solution because it would never happen. Why would anyone in their right mind play mp10 when you could do the same things on mp0 for the same reward?
I simply don't get why mp10 is a standard for anything. Sure it provides the highest bonus rewards, percentage-wise, but unless you are killing things at mp10 quickly (elites in less than 20 sec), you would be better served playing at mp6-8... killing 3x more monsters at 50% less bonus still = 150% the efficiency, etc...
In fact I would say my 200k dps DH farms mp6-7 faster than all of my other toons, except my 330k dps archon wizard. Each class must be played to their own strengths.
MP6-8 seems just about right for my DH (200k damage). And my DH is just as fast at mp6-8 as my p100 cm/ww wiz, or ww barb (170k dps). Perhaps my WD (160k dps firebats/COB build) would be faster.
I suppose my wiz, barb, and wd can all go mp10 without much issue, while it would feel slow on my dh.
Still, point being, if it feels like your efficiency is low at a certain MP, just turn it down... and you may start enjoying playing the game again.
Having leveled all 5 classes to 60, demon hunter being the last, I have to say that I'm surprised at how fun the DH seems so far. My gear sucks, mostly borrowed gear from my other toons, but I melt any mobs/elites quickly and efficiently at mp6 with 200k dps. The only time I die is when I forget to refresh SP: Gloom, which is the result of needing to refine my game skills. I have great mobility with vault. Amazing AOE with bola shot, spike trap, and rapid fire. Not to mention the ability to facetank any mob with SP: Gloom. I turned it up to mp10 just to see what happens, and I can still kill any normal mobs somewhat efficiently, while elite mobs do take a long time (although they do go down). Again, my gear is not that great, so I think it's reasonable I can't farm mp10 till later.
Lastly, I don't get why so many are upset with SP: Gloom and Spike Trap. I love those abilities. I never die with SP: Gloom, and Spike Trap does huge burst damage. Is it because the abilities seem "required" and instead players want "choice?" I guess coming from a wizard whose only choices were CM:WW or Archon, I have to say I am having fun doing more than mindlessly mashing the same buttons over and over again. My DH will probably be my new main along with my WD.
Is there something I'm missing here?
http://us.battle.net...4/hero/33951543
TLDR: I think DHs are so-so. Not terrible. Not great. Probably could use a small buff, but not entirely underpowered as seems to be the average opinion.
That's pretty much made me not want to ever buy UNID legendaries.
Imagine how many skills there are in the game. Then imagine how many different ways items can roll. Then imagine how hard it would be to find an item that has your desired stats (str, vit, IAS, crit%, AND specific barb-related +skill%). It would be virtually impossible to find items like this. Imagine getting shoulders with 300 str, 150 vit, 80 AR, +250 armor, and +10% bonus damage to energy twister (wizard). Just... no. There are what... over a hundred active skills. That means if you are going for a specific +%skill "build," and find a good item, you have less than a 1% chance of that item being relevant to your "build."
It would be more rare than rolling current trifectas.
Perhaps if the Mystic is added back into the game, you can use the mystic to imbue items with power and give it a random %chance of a specific skill. Say you select your item and choose "fists of thunder." The mystic would then imbue items with a random +%skill for fists of thunder. Items can be un-imbued for a certain penalty (gold? reagents? both?) to ensure that you can't just keep re-imbuing items till infinity before getting perfect rolls.
Archon will allow you to casually go through lower MPs without much stress at all. A 100m budget should get you a set to farm mp2-4 very efficiently. Personally, I farm mp6-7 with 330k dps very quickly (trash dies in 1 second, elites die in 3-5 seconds). With my set, I can jump into mp8 public games and find myself carrying other undergeared players without a problem.
If you really want to farm higher MPs, you can always form a cheapo CMWW set by using your archon set and buying a few key CMWW pieces for less than 5m gold.
2) :Thumbs Up:
Often when upgarding gear, you are forced to make tradeoffs between pieces (AKA, if I drop this piece, I gain 10k damage, but lose 5k health and 50 all resist, etc). If you set a reasonable budget for yourself and instead aim for obtaining 2-3 different pieces, you can afford to lose 50 all resist and 5k health on one piece because you'll be gaining 70 all resist, +150 armor, and 4k health on another piece.
Then once you get past 200k (especially 300k), you basically need some of the best possible items to start gaining damage/EHP... which honestly starts sucking real bad.